mjzee Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I remember when this album came out in 1976. Side one was note-for-note recreations of various tracks by The Beatles, Dylan, Beach Boys and others... In fact, Rundgren seems to have done MOPDTK one better by playing all the instruments himself. It struck me then, and still does, as an utterly pointless exercise, a project in search of a rationale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david weiss Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) ...they're using the same basic transcriptional skills that every trained jazz musician has foisted upon them at the outset of learning. That was the very first thing I thought about when I heard about this project, that this used to be something you'd do as, at best, a learning tool, maybe even as a challenging goof, certainly not something you'd do as an album, and certainly not something you'd try to sell to anybody! So...apparently times have changed, and now it is, this is the type of thing you can get people to take seriously because it forces them to think or something equally inspirational to the betterment of thinking about thinking about things. How 'bout that! I'll have to think about that. Edited October 16, 2014 by david weiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) I remember when this album came out in 1976. Side one was note-for-note recreations of various tracks by The Beatles, Dylan, Beach Boys and others... In fact, Rundgren seems to have done MOPDTK one better by playing all the instruments himself. It struck me then, and still does, as an utterly pointless exercise, a project in search of a rationale. "Gag" is the word. Or "gimmick". Or "soundalike". Take your pick. IMO it boils down to the same thing: People stepping in somebody else's musical identity to see how it feels there. But maybe albums or recordings such as this actually are the ULTIMATE tribute to the orignal version? Even though they defy the usual artistic "raison d'être" of coming up with something that is "your own", no matter to what extent it borrows from or is based on somebody else's previous version of the same "source material"? Honestly, this entire discussion has been running in circles for some time now, isn't it? You can like or hate such projects, but those who find it intriguing listening to such projects won't ever convince those who find such coyping quite pointless (regardless of what the original intentions or marketing goals of those copying projects were). And vice versa. Though they well may be some who find all this pointless and STILL listen attentively to all that copying for curiosity's sake .... And though I am among those who find such copying exercises pointless or a gimmick at best, I'll have to admit that in this case the "iconoclasm" notion of toppling the saints off their pedestals can be a charming one ... Edited October 16, 2014 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I have a review of this album pending on the freejazzblog site. I admire their effort. They provided the expository Borges fictional account in their liner notes. I just didn't care, not when there are so many other efforts by artists that need to be heard. And bought. Remember, they are not just pushing a work of art. It is also a commodity. They may be applying Walter Banjamin's philosophy (read the classic essay The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction), but the whole effort feels like a half assed art school project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Feels a little more than that or something like that (my art school days were in a boarding school in Swaziland a long time and place away) for me. But I agree this is not of earth-shaking importance or anything close. That said, I've enjoyed listenening to this and reacting to the reproduction of the music by the players and the recording and discovering a bit for myself the way that the individual nervous systems and personalities of players and the nature of recording equipment and recording space enter into the listening experience and find that a very interesting (and in my case, perhaps of equal import, relaxing) use of valuable "alone" time for this week. Edited October 16, 2014 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I wonder if this album is the logical end result of the movement to label jazz as "America's classical music." This would seem to be a dream come true for those who have so stridently insisted on that label. At last jazz is viewed as a music having old works which rise to the level of Mozart's Symphony No. 41, to be faithfully played note for note as a work from a canon. Now jazz really is "America's classical music". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I wonder if this album is the logical end result of the movement to label jazz as "America's classical music." This would seem to be a dream come true for those who have so stridently insisted on that label. At last jazz is viewed as a music having old works which rise to the level of Mozart's Symphony No. 41, to be faithfully played note for note as a work from a canon. Now jazz really is "America's classical music". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uli Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) All of this reminds me of why I both love and hate jazz, increasingly the latter. inneresting. so that's why you started all of this. it's a concept thread! Edited October 16, 2014 by uli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 FWIW: At least they seem to be having a pretty good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesoul Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Screeching Weasel were way ahead of these guys. Edited October 16, 2014 by bluesoul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 haha but Ben Weasel is a shithead and those MOPDTK guys are pretty nice fellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Feels a little more than that or something like that (my art school days were in a boarding school in Swaziland a long time and place away) for me. But I agree this is not of earth-shaking importance or anything close. That said, I've enjoyed listenening to this and reacting to the reproduction of the music by the players and the recording and discovering a bit for myself the way that the individual nervous systems and personalities of players and the nature of recording equipment and recording space enter into the listening experience and find that a very interesting (and in my case, perhaps of equal import, relaxing) use of valuable "alone" time for this week. I'm curious: Can you easily tell the difference between the original and the copy? (Is it live or is it Memorex?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Joe I am certain you would immediately and easily tell the difference. As would anyone with a lot of familiarity with Kind of Blue. The differences . . . well that's the experience, for me, the differences. I'm enjoying the release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 FWIW, a Facebook post from estimable saxophonist Marty Krystall: "the trumpet blower is flat. Fucking flat. Couldn't he fix that in photoshop? I mean protools? His intonation sucks. This sounds like Miles on Thorazine. So is the alto blower! Flat. Just lousy intonation. Flat on Thorizine should be the title. The saxist sounds like Cannon on a lousy day, but does NOT sound anything like Trane. Now he's playing too sharp. Hopeless crap. Save us all." Also, I can/could tell the difference between the original and MOPDTK's would-be copy in an instant. For one thing, the opening piano tremolo is "off"/screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Meanwhile, Vince Wilburn, Jr. has sounded off: http://www.milesdavis.com/us/news/miles-davis-estate-official-statement “I Vincent Wilburn Jr., drummer and nephew of Miles Davis, and Cheryl A. Davis, daughter of Miles Davis, want to clarify that “Blue” the ultimate tribute by the band Mostly Other People Do The Killing, is not supported by us, nor done with our cooperation or participation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 The hype is "kind of ridiculous." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Iverson Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 As for Iverson--does anyone remember when he shat on Steve McCall's drumming on Air Lore? My comments about McCall are here, many of them admiring: http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/4-on-the-aacm.html I'm still listening to Air Lore. Still haven't totally made up my mind. However, that album remains a good point to discuss the issue of "swing," which is why I ventured into critical territory. I may write about it again in the future. Your current takeaway "shat on" suggests I need to redouble my efforts to be careful. When I interviewed Threadgill: http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/interview-with-henry-threadgill-1-.html ...I tried to bring up McCall (also Fred Hopkins) but Threadgill is rather quicksilver: there's not as much there about his collaborators as I would have wished. If there had been room to go there I would have liked to get Threadgill talking about the jazz beat but I just was following his lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 All of this reminds me of why I both love and hate jazz, increasingly the latter. inneresting. so that's why you started all of this. it's a concept thread! Exactly. I am partially responsible for ruining jazz for myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 This sort of thing, an attempt at perfect imitation, was discussed in Thom Keith's Blindfold Test #114. This song by Richard Noble and his group so perfectly captured the sound of the John Coltrane Quartet that many of us were genuinely fooled: 04 - The End of a Love Affair - Richard Noble - (2002) Continuity: In Memory of John Coltrane Richard Noble - tenor sax This was recorded off a radio broadcast to tape, then transferred to CD for posterity. I've never found the original disc (NOT For a lack of trying). My friend Ken Eisen turned me on to this cut, which is by far the class of the album. Noble was fresh out of college when this was recorded and had clearly spent a lot of time honing his Coltrane. What really sells this is how incredibly well they capture the sound of the whole quartet (solos notwithstanding). This one fooled The Boss (my Dad) who saw Coltrane many times. Like most of us, he went for his discography and was unable to find a recording of this song. The other cuts I've heard from the album expose Noble's limits as a player, and I'm not sure what ever became of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Just listening to All Blues - I can see they learned a lot in the process, but what's the point in releasing that? And they sound different, noticeably different. All of them. Again, what's the point? I too tried to play like several of my idols, and learned that it was impossible to do. You can learn somebody's style, but copy a record note for note? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I would prefer that they tried their hand (and failed) at NEFERTITI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 As a concession to this thread I am listening to KoB for the first time in *many* years, this time in the mono CD mix. It sounds completely different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Fat lot of use having the facsimile of the original jacket, btw, as the tracks are listed in the wrong order. Still find it boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Basten II Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 FWIW: At least they seem to be having a pretty good time. Ari is always having a good time when he is on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 FWIW: At least they seem to be having a pretty good time. Ari is always having a good time when he is on stage. And me too if I'm present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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