What makes for a great box set?

[LouisvillePrez]

Today as I was thinking about my jazz collection, past and upcoming releases, and what I might buy in the future, I found myself asking the question “What makes for a great box set?”

These are box sets that I consider “great” with some personal thoughts.

John Coltrane Complete 1961 Village Vanguard: Impressions and Live at the Village Vanguard are two albums that shaped my interest in jazz. The box set gave me all of the other tracks, and more really is better.

Miles Davis Quintet 1965-1968: It’s my favorite group in the history of jazz, and I love every note they ever recorded in the studio. I am super glad to have everything.

Charlie Parker Yardbird Suite: It’s only 2 CDs, so maybe it does not count as a box set. I really like it because it introduced me to a range of Parker’s work.

Thelonious Monk Complete Prestige Recordings: I had 0 Monk on Prestige when I bought this. I like it all and it filled a gap in my Monk collection.

And, here are some box sets that I own and hesitate to call “great” despite the greatness of the music.

Bill Evans Complete Complete 1961 Village Vanguard: Sure, it is all impeccable (and the price often makes it a really great gift). And, while part of me thinks that more should be better with this, I often wish that I still had my Waltz for Debby CD to play.

Miles Davis Legendary Prestige Quintet Sessions: I really can’t get used to the sequencing. For iPod consumption I have divided it into the original album configurations, but this doesn’t help when it comes to playing the CDs on my stereo. Cookin’ was a formative CD in my life with jazz.

Thinking about my appreciation of the box sets I own, I see “completeness” as one thing that makes for a great box set (either of a career, a time period of an artist/band, or a live performance). I also see the ability to fill a gap as another thing that can make for a great box set. The extent to which a set can introduce or encapsulate an artist seems to be another possible measure. Box sets seem to be less than great when they disrupt too much my earlier ways of hearing something. At all times, of course, great music makes a great box set.

In the past, I did not find myself thinking about upgraded sound quality or the chance to hear something never before released, in and of itself, when buying a box set. I also have not found myself evaluating box sets based on the ability to get things restored to print after a long time (box sets are often followed by restored individual titles). Liner notes, essays, and pictures are all bonuses but secondary to the music. And, I am not sure whether to consider all multi-CD releases box sets.

With all of this being said, I wonder what criteria other people use when considering what makes for a great box set – with some examples.

[mikeweil]

My criteria:

1 - completeness

2 - great comprehensive discographical information

3 - clear booklet layout that's easy to read

4 - I prefer recording order

For #4 I was a bit disappointed by the Monk Prestige set as it does not present the tracks within the sessions in recording order. But it's great to have the music all in one place.

I have many that I love, too many to list them, no real standout. Not even one that I pull out more often than the others.

[gmonahan]

I like your first three. The recent habit of adding alternates at the end of the disc appeals to me. I get bored listening to the same tune over and over. To yours I'd add:

5) Ease of extracting cds from packaging that does not damage them.

6) Detailed liner notes in the booklet by a knowledgeable expert who loves the music but also sees occasional weaknesses.

Mosaic sets generally score well on all these.

gregmo

[felser]

A great box set should be a great overarching purpose well-executed. Different purposes will have different specific criterea. The Rhino "Nuggets" box set is great, and the Coltrane "Complete Village Vanguard" box set is great. They have very different purposes, but they each fulfilled their purpose beautifully. The RhinoHandmade Beau Brummels set has great music, but is not a great box set, because it couldn't decide what it wanted to be and didn't fulfill any purpose. Too many familiar cuts present and worthy rarities missing to be a rarities set, some very key cuts missing to be a key cuts plus rarities overview. I find I avoid playing some otherwise great sets like the Coltrane Impulse Quartet set because the packaging is so difficult to deal with (and don't even start on the Bill Evans Verve iron monstrosity set, wish someone would buy or trade for mine). The Rhino/Atlantic sets on Trane, Ornette, and Mingus are basically perfect to me.

Strangely, I'm not a huge Mosaic fan if I can get the same music elsewhere. I don't like the LP-sized boxes and booklets, and I miss the original album artwork. I like alternate cuts to be at the end of a set, and like sets to present albums in their original running order, followed by outtakes and then by alternate takes.

[mjzee]

(and don't even start on the Bill Evans Verve iron monstrosity set, wish someone would buy or trade for mine).

I picked this up recently at a great price. Cardboard box, cardboard sleeves, and a booklet with discographical information. Get it, and donate your iron box to the center for tetanus research.

[mjzee]

I'd echo a lot of what's been posted here. I'd add: a readable booklet (no garish graphics, no tiny type), rare and surprising tracks I couldn't find elsewhere, a handsome package, a nice price. I can do without gimmicks (like the "tape box" that's part of the Coltrane Atlantic box), a box where the things inside are too loose (whenever I pull the Mingus Atlantic box off the shelf, everything inside slides out), a box with non-standard dimensions (the "What It Is!" box goes with nothing else), or metal (the Coltrane Impulse box scratches my shelves).

[JSngry]

First you start with a cogent concept of what is being presented, and why it is relevant to do so.

After that, it's "just" a question of staying cogent though the progression from idea to execution.

Note that this allows for a box set being utilitarian/even essential without necessarily being "great".

[David Ayers]

Add that a set can be great even if it contains some unnecessary and even dreary music.

[psu_13]

I like boxes with larger books. The tiny little CD books are the worst thing to happen to music sold at retail, since, well, maybe ever.

OTOH, I'd love for Mosaic to start doing boxed sets as regular hard cover books for notes and with a USB stick or download code inside. Ripping 15CD sets is tedious.

LP + download also has a lot of potential.

[felser]

(and don't even start on the Bill Evans Verve iron monstrosity set, wish someone would buy or trade for mine).

I picked this up recently at a great price. Cardboard box, cardboard sleeves, and a booklet with discographical information. Get it, and donate your iron box to the center for tetanus research.

Yep, I did pick that one up and have been trying to move along my iron one ever since. I guess it will end up in ebay wilderness, though I've gotten to the point where I really don't like ebay, and have note sold anything out there in five years or so.

[GA Russell]

I agree with Jim that a "cogent concept" is best. I suppose the most common cogent concept is...Everything Artist X recorded for Label Y between the years A and B.

I think that price is important. IMO, the early Mosaics were well worth their prices, but that was a long time ago.

Nowadays, all three of the majors are releasing box sets of five albums from the '60s and '70s for $17-18 including shipping. That may not qualify for a "great" box set, but you can't go wrong with that.

I am happy to hear the alternate takes, but a box with only the master takes is usually fine with me. Does anyone remember the four Chet in Paris CDs released in the late '80s? There were four CDs, each sold separately. The first three were the master takes, and the fourth had only the alternate takes. To me, that's the way to do it.

[xybert]

For me a great box set is 'useful' and convenient, usually because it collects out of print, previously not available on CD or hard to find stuff. Hopefully it also provides the best quality versions (see Mosaic). In the case of the Black Saint/Sole Note boxes it collects stuff that is mostly only available new as CDRs otherwise.

[Face of the Bass]

A great box set tells a story the way a great novel tells a story. I sometimes think the overemphasis on completeness detracts from some box sets. I'm not against including everything per se, but sometimes the focus on getting everything gets in the way of telling the story of the music. The accompanying notes are also important, but I'm not a fan of the blow-by-blow analysis that you often see in Mosaic booklets, for instance. I like better the essays that accompanied the Miles Davis metal spine sets, which for my money are the most important and valuable box sets in jazz history. One of my favorites from that series was actually The Complete In A Silent Way Sessions. I already had all the material before getting the box set, but the chronological order combined with the presentation made me appreciate the music in a different way, and better understand how it captured the changes that were occurring in Miles's life and music at this time.

In general I think Mosaic is a bit overrated; I've never been a fan of the black-and-white presentation for the music, and wish the packaging would get more creative and more in harmony with the particular music that's being presented.

Aside from the Miles box sets, I also really love the Ornette Coleman Beauty Is A Rare Thing set, and the Coltrane Prestige and Village Vanguard sets. But if my house was burning down and I had time to save one shelf of my music, it would be the one with the Miles Columbia sets. All of them are valuable and important. I've never understood why they didn't complete the arc with an Agharta/Pangaea set.

[Homefromtheforest]

Those Miles sets are my favorite boxes too...only missing the "seven steps" box but I'll fix that one day. I personally love the "on the corner" box as I find that a neglected period...

[sidewinder]

Get it, and donate your iron box to the center for tetanus research.

A great box set for me is one that makes you consider an artist whose work you know well from a completely fresh perspective or one which presents new material in a genre that is new to you and makes you re-consider your old assumptions.

Examples of the former would be the Mingus Complete Debut box and Mosaic Dean Benedetti box.

Mosaic are particularly good with the latter - the various Ellington and Armstrong boxes, Teagarden, Stuff Smith etc. to name a few.

Then there are also Rumsfeld's 'known knowns' and I would count pretty well alll the Miles sets (Columbia CDs and Mosaic vinyl) in this category plus a whole raft of Mosaics.

[A Lark Ascending]

I don't buy many box sets - prefer exploring more gradually. What I do look for in a box:

a) It is dominated by music I don't already know (the Boulez and Henze boxes from last year).

b) It has some sort of unifying concept - a performer/composer's complete works in a particular idiom or over a time period (most of the Mosaics I have).

c) Very few alternative takes - I'm not a scholar so these will lie largely unplayed.

d) The basic discographical information - who played what where.

A good set of notes and some nice photos are fine, but I rarely look at them after the first few weeks of ownership.

Hate all the extra bits of cardboard - concert posters, facsimile ticket stubs etc; and the oddball boxing - a standard LP sized box like Mosaics or one that will fit on a shelf alongside a standard CD is fine.

The 'box' concept doesn't loom large with me - where the music is made up of discrete albums I very quickly CD-r them into original album format and listen that way.

Ones that come to mind as especially welcome:

• King Crimson: The Great Deceiver - now being superseded by the more extensive box sets but at the time this brought the live band of 72-74 into the living room for the first time.
• The Ellington Mosaic sets - restored music that was completely missing from my collection.
• The RCA Ellington Centennial - although I had some of this on LP it put it all together in a coherent fashion. Though I still think they buggered up some of the Blanton-Webster tracks!
• Henry Cow box - acres of live and radio recordings never heard. Again, like the KC, allowed us to hear the live band which was only documented on the Concerts LP in extended performances. Like KC they were a very different band live from their studio records.
• The BBC radio archive series of Fairport, Sandy Denny and Richard Thompson.
• The succession of Miles boxes from the 90s onwards. The extra material there was usually very different music rather than alternative takes. I still reformatted it onto CD-r original albums with 'the other stuff' on CDrs of their own.

Edited October 12, 2014 by A Lark Ascending

[soulpope]

I`m in general not too fond of box sets, as freed myself from the completist turkey quite some time ago.

But case I do buy some, I would stick to points 1-3 mentioned by "mikeweil" in post #2 and add

• at least documenting the original cover art

• individual bonus tracks (aka not multiple alternates from the same track and NO false starts...)

• transfer quality (if there`s a choice)

Edited October 12, 2014 by soulpope

[Teasing the Korean]

Original front and back sleeve art

Original album running order

Consideration of mono mixes if stereo mixes were weak

Bonus tracks following the album versions or placed on separate discs.

[LouisvillePrez]

I appreciate people’s thoughts on what makes for a great box set. I especially appreciate the basic idea that a great box set starts with a great concept and follows through. With this and other comments in mind, I have been trying to decide on a Mosaic purchase. My reason, in part, is simply because I have never bought, heard, or even seen a Mosaic set, and I am curious. Because of my budget, I want to limit myself to one, and I have been considering the following:

Threadgill Novus & Columbia: Would increase my collection of Sextett records, and I would like Air Lore on CD.

MJQ Complete Atlantic: I love everything I have owned by the MJQ – having owned Concorde, Dedicated to Connie, European Concert, and The Artistry of the MJQ over the years. I have no Atlantic studio albums. Feel I could pick up a few separately. Would not mind spending the late fall or winter binging on the MJQ.

Mingus Jazz Workshops: I have owned Ah Um and the Atlantics for a long time. I know that there is a ton more Mingus to experience. Could this be next?

Dial Sessions: I own very little Parker, and I expect the sound quality to surpass prior releases. I think I could up my Parker collection in other ways (Studio Chronicle?).

Any suggestions would be welcome.

[JSngry]

With those as your options, I would suggest either closing your eyes and picking one, or else just getting all four. In other words, no way to lose from that batch.

However...the Mingus set has an amount of otherwise unavailable material that is totally worth having, so that would be my "swing factor" if one was needed.

[mjzee]

Of the four you're considering, hands down choose the Dial. You say you own little Bird, and that's criminal. However, you might consider the Savoy package which also contains all the Dial material, and in great sound. Of the rest, I'd go with the MJQ (and have). This is the classic material, in great sound. I can't speak to the Threadgill, and as for the Mingus...I haven't heard it (I have heard bootlegs of some of the performances), but check the box's discography (online at Mosaic's website). You should be prepared for very long performances, many of them. I mention this only because, if you only own the Atlantics, you may not be prepared. My mind starts to wander after a while. YMMV.

[David Ayers]

I'd caution on both MJQ and Threadgill. You'd in a way already know if you had stomach enough for either. Stream some stuff if you're not sure. The Dial you want for sure unless you go for the Parker Dial/Savoy. With Mingus again I think you'd know already if you had to have this. In conclusion, er...

[soulpope]

get the MINGUS !!!

[xybert]

Tough call to make!

The Mingus is a solid choice, however if you have to ruthlessly eliminate to get it down to one, i'd suggest possibly checking out some of the stuff available from around that period that is available on CD elsewhere before taking the plunge on a full on box.

MJQ, obviously heaps of it is available on CD, but there's always that sound quality factor. Maybe check out the Original Album Series release that has five of the albums? http://www.amazon.com/Original-Album-Series-Modern-Quartet/dp/B008MMFBOS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1413149637&sr=8-2&keywords=modern+jazz+quartet But then, if you already have NONE of the material and as you say love the MJQ then this could be a great opportunity to get it all at once in what i assume is the best sound available.

Threadgill... a mix of stuff that is readily available on CD and stuff that has never been released on CD elsewhere (as far as i know)... this was actually my first Mosaic, and i wouldn't be without it, but i'm a diehard Threadgill fan.

Dial... not familiar with this set at all...

Search your feelings... without getting too wussy is there one that makes your heart leap just that little bit more than the others?

[felser]

Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus. You can get the bulk of the Dial and MJQ materal from elsewhere, and the Threadgill to me is very hot (Novus) and cold (Columbia).