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Remembering Creed Taylor


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Creed Taylor's work is for me very much a mixed bag.  But a large and significant one.  High water mark being founding Impulse!  Low water mark being CTI going from high quality wine and cheese music to been open too long swill and cheese whiz very quickly.  By his mid-40s he was done as far as any big impact goes.  Yes, I'm being a little harsh but that's the thing to me - this is the guy that gave us Blues & the Abstract Truth and other exceptionally fine music.  And was able to walk that tightrope between art & commerce about as well as anyone in the biz for a time.  But when he fell, he definitely fell to one side.  As an example, I think Turrentine and Crawford did much better work for Blue Note and Atlantic respectively.

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I have different view. CTI was to me more distinctive in terms of concept and sound than Impulse, which Taylor left soon after the launch anyway. And while I don't necessarily like everything on that label there is no shortage of high quality playing and productions. An underestimated sequence is the albums from the period when CTI was an A&M subsidiary. Taylor himself might have felt crippled by the influence of Alpert, but what came out was consistent and almost a genre of its own.

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1 minute ago, Daniel A said:

I have different view. CTI was to me more distinctive in terms of concept and sound than Impulse, which Taylor left soon after the launch anyway. And while I don't necessarily like everything on that label there is no shortage of high quality playing and productions. An underestimated sequence is the albums from the period when CTI was an A&M subsidiary. Taylor himself might have felt crippled by the influence of Alpert, but what came out was consistent and almost a genre of its own.

A great different perspective. Thank you! For me the CTI sweet spot is 1970-1974

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To me CTI starts strong with an impressive roster and distinctive look and sound, and then quickly hits a wall.  But I don't track the sequence really well, so some of that may be more as I experienced it v. how it happened in real time.  For instance, I own the first 3 Joe Farell albums on CTI and love 2 & 3, but have little to no interest in the rest.  And yes I did hear them at the time.

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4 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

To me CTI starts strong with an impressive roster and distinctive look and sound, and then quickly hits a wall.  But I don't track the sequence really well, so some of that may be more as I experienced it v. how it happened in real time.  For instance, I own the first 3 Joe Farell albums on CTI and love 2 & 3, but have little to no interest in the rest.  And yes I did hear them at the time.

I'll have to agree with a lot of what Dan said. CTI isn't represented all that much in my collection and for nearly every release I own on the label or subsequent reissue which originally was released on CTI, the artist recorded better albums for other labels.

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10 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said:

I'll have to agree with a lot of what Dan said. CTI isn't represented all that much in my collection and for nearly every release I own on the label or subsequent reissue which originally was released on CTI, the artist recorded better albums for other labels.

Thanks, by the way it's Dana.

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26 minutes ago, JSngry said:

There is not a better Stanley Turrentine album than Salt Song. 

Not for my $.  I kind of regret not picking up a copy for $5 when I could have, but not that much.  Can't imagine reaching for it ahead of any of the BN.  I'm not even sure it's the CTI ST I like most.

Edited by danasgoodstuff
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1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

I have different view. CTI was to me more distinctive in terms of concept and sound than Impulse, which Taylor left soon after the launch anyway. And while I don't necessarily like everything on that label there is no shortage of high quality playing and productions. An underestimated sequence is the albums from the period when CTI was an A&M subsidiary. Taylor himself might have felt crippled by the influence of Alpert, but what came out was consistent and almost a genre of its own.

:tup

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5 hours ago, JSngry said:

There is not a better Stanley Turrentine album than Salt Song. 

The title cut is pure genius on ST's part and Deodato's arr.. And those great bass slides by Ron Carter!!!!! I was so inspired by it that I wrote a big band version of it, but I featured trombone playing ST's part, so it wouldn't be the same thing.So far, it hasn't been played, because none of the bands i play with have a percussionist, and that tune is all ST and percussion. We did an earlier version I wrote for my HS Concert  Band, but just as we were getting somewhere, the percussionist (a member of the Latin Kings) took out a kid who took out his brother with a baseball bat, so he went for a little stay at Riker's Island, and never came back.

But I trascribed ST's genius intro and solo (Jeepers Creepers!) and someday soon...

5 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Thank you for mentioning the great Kenyon Hopkins, whose score for The Hustler is one of the greatest jazz motion picture scores of all time!

Here's a thing on CT's Jet Set/specialty phase:

https://www.ctproduced.com/the-abc-of-specialty-recording/

The writer claims that "There is a whole fascinating story about Hopkins and especially around his divorce which includes using binoculars to peep on neighbors, hitting his wife and more. One day."
 

Edited by sgcim
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2 hours ago, JSngry said:

There is not a better Milton Jackson album than Sunflower. 

Not sure I know enuff Milt to judge, but that at least seems plausible.  Unless we count that Milt/Monk/Miles session for Prestige (it wasn't all issued together initially, but I had a reissue that put it all together), if that's in the running it wins.

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3 hours ago, sgcim said:

The title cut is pure genius on ST's part and Deodato's arr.. And those great bass slides by Ron Carter!!!!! I was so inspired by it that I wrote a big band version of it, but I featured trombone playing ST's part, so it wouldn't be the same thing.So far, it hasn't been played, because none of the bands i play with have a percussionist, and that tune is all ST and percussion. We did an earlier version I wrote for my HS Concert  Band, but just as we were getting somewhere, the percussionist (a member of the Latin Kings) took out a kid who took out his brother with a baseball bat, so he went for a little stay at Riker's Island, and never came back.

But I trascribed ST's genius intro and solo (Jeepers Creepers!) and someday soon...

Here's a thing on CT's Jet Set/specialty phase:

https://www.ctproduced.com/the-abc-of-specialty-recording/

The writer claims that "There is a whole fascinating story about Hopkins and especially around his divorce which includes using binoculars to peep on neighbors, hitting his wife and more. One day."
 

Yes, I gotta rebuy that.  Think I'm gonna get the recent Japanese  blu spec CD reissue of that.  I like those very much.

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It must be noted that two of the last CTIs released were very strong and distinctive: Art Farmer & Jim Hall's Big Blues, and Nina Simone's Baltimore.

On a different note, I've noticed a few CTIs that don't seem coherent as albums.  For example, Hubert Laws's In The Beginning.  It's really hard to figure out what they were striving for; stylistically, it's all over the place.  

I read in the liner notes to a CTI CD reissue (don't remember the title) an arranger (may have been Sebesky or Dave Matthews) commenting that Taylor put together the bands and paid for the sessions, but spent almost no time in the recording studio; he left the supervision of the date to the arranger.

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35 minutes ago, mjzee said:

It must be noted that two of the last CTIs released were very strong and distinctive: Art Farmer & Jim Hall's Big Blues, and Nina Simone's Baltimore.

On a different note, I've noticed a few CTIs that don't seem coherent as albums.  For example, Hubert Laws's In The Beginning.  It's really hard to figure out what they were striving for; stylistically, it's all over the place.  

I read in the liner notes to a CTI CD reissue (don't remember the title) an arranger (may have been Sebesky or Dave Matthews) commenting that Taylor put together the bands and paid for the sessions, but spent almost no time in the recording studio; he left the supervision of the date to the arranger.

Interesting points, you obviously know the history in more detail than I.

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