Stevie Mclean Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 As I become more acquainted with my personal taste in jazz I am starting to notice some patterns in what i do and do not enjoy (obviously). Lately I have come to the realization that the bass is possibly one of the most important aspects of a band to "get right" in terms of my taste for me to be able to enjoy the music. What I mean by this is that if a soloist, drummer or even a pianist is playing outside of my comfort zone I can still enjoy the music for the most part, however when the bass isn't doing what I like it can really prevent me from listening to the music at all. What I want to hear from the bass is relatively straight ahead walking that swings heavy. Also a gut sound is VERY much preferred. This makes it hard for me to listen to many avant-garde and modern recordings due to both the frequent use of metal strings and the chopped up "free" bass lines that utilize space more like a soloist rather than providing a consistent pulse. Don't get me wrong I really appreciate what modern bass playing has done for the instrument and the art form, it just takes much more effort for me to listen and provides less joy that some swingin' quarter notes. This all leads me to ask, does anyone else have similar feeling about certain aspects of jazz? What do you need to hear in a band to really connect with the music? What makes you put down an otherwise good record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) I’m not sure I “need” everything that I definitely “prefer”… …but some things that definitely push my buttons harder include… At least some modest amount of collective improvisation (think Lee Konitz & Warne Marsh together). Or some degree of interplay between a soloing instrument and the rhythm section that seems much stronger than just simple “call and response”. Doesn’t have to be ‘frenetic’ — but something that isn’t solely divided into predictable (metrical) time-intervals. ”Free” or “free-ish” playing is better (for me) when there’s also some sort of repetitive ostinato (usually in the bass, but it can also be in another chordal comping instrument). ”Left turns!!” — stuff that isn’t entirely out of character for the tune, but turns that aren’t predictable or stuff you can see coming a mile away. Pedal-point bass and/or static harmony is also often a BIG plus — but only as long as the other improvisational components are sufficiently ‘interesting’ too. ”Inside/outside” playing (Sam Rivers’ Blue Note output is a good example, as well as Grachan Moncur and especially Andrew Hill). It doesn’t have to swing, but a pulse and/or a strong sense of forward momentum with some sense or “rhythmic organization” is hugely helpful too. In fact, some of my favorite players don’t ever swing: i.e. Gary Thomas. Those are just a few off the top of my head. Edited November 16, 2022 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Mclean Posted November 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 22 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said: I’m not sure I “need” everything that I definitely “prefer”… …but some things that definitely push my buttons harder include… At least some modest amount of collective improvisation (think Lee Konitz & Warne Marsh together). Or some degree of interplay between a soloing instrument and the rhythm section that seems much stronger than just simple “call and response”. Doesn’t have to be ‘frenetic’ — but something that isn’t solely divided into predictable (metrical) time-intervals. ”Free” or “free-ish” playing is better (for me) when there’s also some sort of repetitive ostinato (usually in the bass, but it can also be in another chordal comping instrument). ”Left turns!!” — stuff that isn’t entirely out of character for the tune, but turns that aren’t predictable or stuff you can see coming a mile away. Pedal-point bass and/or static harmony is also often a BIG plus — but only as long as the other improvisational components are sufficiently ‘interesting’ too. ”Inside/outside” playing (Sam Rivers’ Blue Note output is a good example, as well as Grachan Moncur and especially Andrew Hill). Those are just a few off the top of my head. I have a similar opinion to you on some things but I am a serious dynamic harmony fan. I really enjoy musicians that play avant-garde/free while still being more or less rooted in chordal bop. Dolphy and McLean, along with Sam Rivers, have this going on in my opinion. I really like Sam rivers as far as 60's "outside" players go. I find that even when he is playing outside, there is still a familiar logic to his playing that seems more rooted in hard bop than some of his peers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 passion, intelligence, in the moment responsiveness, cultural engagement, preferably all collective. These can take many forms. Don't necessarily need blues or swing or set roles or other familiar signposts, but they don't hurt and if the're not there then something should take their place, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 I too like BN inside/out playing but that's more about the individual players than style. I tend to prefer that generation of avant guardians to later, when it actually was new. I do tend to like whoever's filling the bass role to be a base for others to build on, be that walking acoustic stand up, patterns on an electric, or a tuba or a bass sax. Jaco could play but it's low register lead to me quite often and something else has to be the foundation then, but if things hang down from an overhead exoskeleton or revolve around a center or ___, that's ok too and bands don't have to have a bass player per se. And I don't expect fundamentally different things from jazz than other music, I hear jazz as a commentary by example on other music. I want humanity in music, most of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Mclean Posted November 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said: passion, intelligence, in the moment responsiveness, cultural engagement, preferably all collective. These can take many forms. Don't necessarily need blues or swing or set roles or other familiar signposts, but they don't hurt and if the're not there then something should take their place, maybe. I agree that something should take the place of familiar signposts in the evolution of the language of jazz. It helps bridge the gap between the past and the present. Though I wouldn't be mad if there was a little more blues in all jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 Aural evidence of musicians really listening to each other, closely (and responding in kind, even if only in subtle ways) — especially when playing live. AKA, jazz with multiple players needs to be a conversation, and I need to be able to hear that. (And far too often it isn’t, and I don’t.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said: Aural evidence of musicians really listening to each other, closely (and responding in kind, even if only in subtle ways) — especially when playing live. AKA, jazz with multiple players needs to be a conversation, and I need to be able to hear that. (And far too often it isn’t, and I don’t.) Yes, but even solo can be a conversation with our expectations, etc. Edited November 16, 2022 by danasgoodstuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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