Jump to content

BFT 226 - To the Well Once More


Dan Gould

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, mjzee said:

Dan, it may be time to start giving some hints.

Individual hints aren't very obvious to me but Sangrey did get the theme, which he called "intergenerational" - on every track there is at least one "young lion" type matched with at least one from an older generation.  Maybe that can help a little.

Specifically, track 2 was ID'd as a band with Alvin Queen, Jesse Davis, Peter Bernstein and Mike LeDonne, and I let slip that the tune is a Don Patterson composition ... should add up to an answer for those who sleuth.  Similarly for #4 that can be figured out too.

I will say that Track 11 is the one with the second appearance by one musician.

Edited by Dan Gould
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Dan -- a number of hits, a few misses, and almost no pegs. 

Apologies for taking three weeks to get to this, month got away, but the reasons are good (music!).  I need to preface, on a streak of shit sleep, so advance apologies for anything particularly stupid that is said by way of observation.  

Track 01 - This is some happy music.  Not sure what, but I'm here for it.  I mean, obvious guess would be Tito.  I have nothing pushing me there besides genre and timbales, but this is what his band sounded like when I saw it.  Kind of hoping Mario Rivera's tenor will show up.  *Could* be Steve Turre, so I'm not giving up on Tito.  Alas, no Mario tenor.  I find this music fun to play, fun to listen to, and absolutely miserable to read.  Hmmm... that sure sounds like Hilton Ruiz on piano.  

Track 02 - Love that drum intro.  I mean, no new ground being broken here, but I'm FINE with that.  This has what I like.  Those drums are a bit heavy, but it works.  In fact, I think it's a compliment.  I saw Ralph Peterson lay this down with Benny Golson's Blakey tribute band one night.  Second set.  It was WAY different than the first.  When RP went here, the guy next to me said, "Here we go!  They must gone out and got somethin' between sets."  These are good vibes.  Trumpet is familiar if underwhelming.  Maybe Randy Brecker?  Don't know the alto, but it's a real voice.  The way I WANT Kenny Garrett to play.  I'll take a full plate of this with all the sides.  Mmh.  I *do* loathe that ending, though.  

Track 03 - Sounds like someone a bit smitten.  I'm not sure I'm fully buying the story (compared to the last cut).  Can't put my finger on this.  Tenor reminds me of Hadley Caliman later in life, but less bite.  There's nothing *wrong* here, but there's something about those double-time runs... the rhythm is just a tick off.  It's pleasant enough, but not sure I'd give it multiple spins.  Seems to suffer from that edge that a lot of the Concord stuff suffers from, to my ear.  

Track 04 - Sounds like Bergonzi to me.  I saw him interviewed where he said he never listens to his own stuff after it's recorded.  I think he should.  This just doesn't sound personal to me.  I'll take the last cut, despite my criticisms.  Tenor here is clearly a really solid musician (has that Eric Alexander thing going on, but the sound seems more like Bergonzi).  Again, nothing wrong with it, just not hitting the right spots for me.  Strangled altissimo on cue, not a single note out of place.  I wish there was one.  Doesn't feel like these guys are communicating.  Drums lack dynamics and in general, almost sounds like horn was recorded separate from rhythm section (like, different takes).  

Track 05 - 10 seconds in, this has all the last cut was missing.  I mean, I'm not saying this is Kind of Blue, but it feels a lot more real than the last track.  Love the arrangement.  Losing me as it goes on.  A lot of affectation, but I'm not really feeling the message.  Actually reminds me of Bleeding Gums Murphy on the Simpsons.  A talented player who at times seems to lack taste (boy, I'm a bastard today, huh?).  A reasonable listen, but preferred the ensemble portions to the improv.

Track 06 - Early on, I was hoping we'd gotten an Abdullah Ibrahim cut.  I'm kind of diggin' the 2nd-line Bebop.  Tenor could be Ralph Bowen.  I give full props for taking a different approach to this tune.  Not blown away by any of the soloists, but not turned off, either.  Alto player is a little too affected.  Has that thing that make me nuts about both Garrett and Rudresh.  Forget the name and just play, man.  Seems like since they've gone to the "swing" feel, they've lost what they built in this tune.  This could be anybody playing anything.  Unfortunate, because they had really developed something.  Liking the bass.  Drum break was appropriately short.  All around, just feels a little clean to me.

Track 07 - That's Robert Stewart.  No question.  I think this might be the record I DON'T have.  Certainly post-Coltrane with a huge debt to be paid, but he's got a voice.  It's him.  I'm sure most of you have seen that NPR article where they tried to quantify what we appreciate about "swing".  I don't think it CAN be quantified.  This has it.  It's definitely derivitive, but they also mean it.  I'm hedging my bets... this could be the earlier record with Revelations (doesn't get quite as much play in my rotation), but I'm thinking it's newer.  Uh -- at the end the influence of his teacher (Pharoah) comes out.  Without listening to decide, I'm thinking it might be from The Force (one I have) or Heaven and Earth (which I DON'T have).

Track 08 - Sounds like Ernie Andrews on vocals, which is always a win.  So, this must be the Gene entry.  Sounds like Teddy Edwards on tenor, later.  

Track 09 - Full Concord.  So much so that I'm guessing that's George Mraz.  It's a fun ride.  Thinking maybe Red Holloway or... maybe Scott Hamilton.  Another, not-new-ground-but-they-mean-it entry.  It's got that sound (again, guessing Concord) that fights me, but the band is cookin'.  Sometimes that hard shuffle is a miss for me, but every time it's been on this BFT, it's been a win.

Track 10 - Tickle-Toe.  Aw, yeah.  The real guys.  Sure sounds like Zoot, and pretty sure I heard Buddy Tate on the head.  Second tenor is definitely Buddy.  Okay, that's Al Cohn.  Sleuthing tells me that Mr. Hamilton fooled me on the Zoot guess, which should make him proud.  I freely admit to having nowhere near enough sample of Scott Hamilton's output.  Educate me, dudes -- what do I NEED?  McKenna.  Like to think I'd have gotten him without the sleuth job.  So I'm assuming it's this.

Track 11 - Something is missing here.  Everything feels a tick off, rhythmically.  Could be Bobby Shew on flugelhorn.  Doesn't sound like they're listening to one another.  Flugel is... it's a tick behind -- the rhythm is lagging.  If not for that, I might say David Weiss on flugelhorn, but... I dunno, this just isn't clicking.  Digging the bass.  That drum kit is over-mic'd; no subtlety to it at all.  Something almost sounds like Billy Higgins in the snare, but nothing else about it.  Maybe Farnsworth?  Mark Ferber? I like the harmony of the tune, but the rhythm just misses, and it seems to be everybody.

Always an education when I take your BFTs.

 

 

 

Edited by tkeith
Fixing link
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, tkeith said:

Well, Dan -- a number of hits, a few misses, and almost no pegs. 

Apologies for taking three weeks to get to this, month got away, but the reasons are good (music!).  I need to preface, on a streak of shit sleep, so advance apologies for anything particularly stupid that is said by way of observation.  

Track 01 - This is some happy music.  Not sure what, but I'm here for it.  I mean, obvious guess would be Tito.  I have nothing pushing me there besides genre and timbales, but this is what his band sounded like when I saw it.  Kind of hoping Mario Rivera's tenor will show up.  *Could* be Steve Turre, so I'm not giving up on Tito.  Alas, no Mario tenor.  I find this music fun to play, fun to listen to, and absolutely miserable to read.  Hmmm... that sure sounds like Hilton Ruiz on piano.  

Track 02 - Love that drum intro.  I mean, no new ground being broken here, but I'm FINE with that.  This has what I like.  Those drums are a bit heavy, but it works.  In fact, I think it's a compliment.  I saw Ralph Peterson lay this down with Benny Golson's Blakey tribute band one night.  Second set.  It was WAY different than the first.  When RP went here, the guy next to me said, "Here we go!  They must gone out and got somethin' between sets."  These are good vibes.  Trumpet is familiar if underwhelming.  Maybe Randy Brecker?  Don't know the alto, but it's a real voice.  The way I WANT Kenny Garrett to play.  I'll take a full plate of this with all the sides.  Mmh.  I *do* loathe that ending, though.  

Track 03 - Sounds like someone a bit smitten.  I'm not sure I'm fully buying the story (compared to the last cut).  Can't put my finger on this.  Tenor reminds me of Hadley Caliman later in life, but less bite.  There's nothing *wrong* here, but there's something about those double-time runs... the rhythm is just a tick off.  It's pleasant enough, but not sure I'd give it multiple spins.  Seems to suffer from that edge that a lot of the Concord stuff suffers from, to my ear.  

Track 04 - Sounds like Bergonzi to me.  I saw him interviewed where he said he never listens to his own stuff after it's recorded.  I think he should.  This just doesn't sound personal to me.  I'll take the last cut, despite my criticisms.  Tenor here is clearly a really solid musician (has that Eric Alexander thing going on, but the sound seems more like Bergonzi).  Again, nothing wrong with it, just not hitting the right spots for me.  Strangled altissimo on cue, not a single note out of place.  I wish there was one.  Doesn't feel like these guys are communicating.  Drums lack dynamics and in general, almost sounds like horn was recorded separate from rhythm section (like, different takes).  

Track 05 - 10 seconds in, this has all the last cut was missing.  I mean, I'm not saying this is Kind of Blue, but it feels a lot more real than the last track.  Love the arrangement.  Losing me as it goes on.  A lot of affectation, but I'm not really feeling the message.  Actually reminds me of Bleeding Gums Murphy on the Simpsons.  A talented player who at times seems to lack taste (boy, I'm a bastard today, huh?).  A reasonable listen, but preferred the ensemble portions to the improv.

Track 06 - Early on, I was hoping we'd gotten an Abdullah Ibrahim cut.  I'm kind of diggin' the 2nd-line Bebop.  Tenor could be Ralph Bowen.  I give full props for taking a different approach to this tune.  Not blown away by any of the soloists, but not turned off, either.  Alto player is a little too affected.  Has that thing that make me nuts about both Garrett and Rudresh.  Forget the name and just play, man.  Seems like since they've gone to the "swing" feel, they've lost what they built in this tune.  This could be anybody playing anything.  Unfortunate, because they had really developed something.  Liking the bass.  Drum break was appropriately short.  All around, just feels a little clean to me.

Track 07 - That's Robert Stewart.  No question.  I think this might be the record I DON'T have.  Certainly post-Coltrane with a huge debt to be paid, but he's got a voice.  It's him.  I'm sure most of you have seen that NPR article where they tried to quantify what we appreciate about "swing".  I don't think it CAN be quantified.  This has it.  It's definitely derivitive, but they also mean it.  I'm hedging my bets... this could be the earlier record with Revelations (doesn't get quite as much play in my rotation), but I'm thinking it's newer.  Uh -- at the end the influence of his teacher (Pharoah) comes out.  Without listening to decide, I'm thinking it might be from The Force (one I have) or Heaven and Earth (which I DON'T have).

Track 08 - Sounds like Ernie Andrews on vocals, which is always a win.  So, this must be the Gene entry.  Sounds like Teddy Edwards on tenor, later.  

Track 09 - Full Concord.  So much so that I'm guessing that's George Mraz.  It's a fun ride.  Thinking maybe Red Holloway or... maybe Scott Hamilton.  Another, not-new-ground-but-they-mean-it entry.  It's got that sound (again, guessing Concord) that fights me, but the band is cookin'.  Sometimes that hard shuffle is a miss for me, but every time it's been on this BFT, it's been a win.

Track 10 - Tickle-Toe.  Aw, yeah.  The real guys.  Sure sounds like Zoot, and pretty sure I heard Buddy Tate on the head.  Second tenor is definitely Buddy.  Okay, that's Al Cohn.  Sleuthing tells me that Mr. Hamilton fooled me on the Zoot guess, which should make him proud.  I freely admit to having nowhere near enough sample of Scott Hamilton's output.  Educate me, dudes -- what do I NEED?  McKenna.  Like to think I'd have gotten him without the sleuth job.  So I'm assuming it's this.

Track 11 - Something is missing here.  Everything feels a tick off, rhythmically.  Could be Bobby Shew on flugelhorn.  Doesn't sound like they're listening to one another.  Flugel is... it's a tick behind -- the rhythm is lagging.  If not for that, I might say David Weiss on flugelhorn, but... I dunno, this just isn't clicking.  Digging the bass.  That drum kit is over-mic'd; no subtlety to it at all.  Something almost sounds like Billy Higgins in the snare, but nothing else about it.  Maybe Farnsworth?  Mark Ferber? I like the harmony of the tune, but the rhythm just misses, and it seems to be everybody.

Always an education when I take your BFTs.

 

 

 

Thanks Thom, your comments are always appreciated!

First off very good on the Robert Stewart ID, I considered him the most obscure person so getting him correctly ... very good, even though its not from any of the recordings you mentioned. 

It is fascinating when two musicians have different reactions to the same track - number 11 didn't work much for you while I (think) Sangrey liked it best.

Gene Harris not on the Ernie Andrews/Teddy Edwards recording though I can understand going from Ernie to Gene based on their 90s connection on some Phillip Morris SuperBand recordings.

Regarding Scott Hamilton, I think some of his best work and most satisfying recordings are with top-flite pianists:

Wig:  Race Point and/or Radio City

Tommy Flanagan: After Hours

Gene Harris: At Last

Norman Simmons: My Romance

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Thanks Thom, your comments are always appreciated!

First off very good on the Robert Stewart ID, I considered him the most obscure person so getting him correctly ... very good, even though its not from any of the recordings you mentioned. 

Damn.  I'll have to go on an RS listening binge. 

10 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

It is fascinating when two musicians have different reactions to the same track - number 11 didn't work much for you while I (think) Sangrey liked it best.

I was thinking the same thing when I read his comments. 

10 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Gene Harris not on the Ernie Andrews/Teddy Edwards recording though I can understand going from Ernie to Gene based on their 90s connection on some Phillip Morris SuperBand recordings.

That was, indeed, how I made the leap.

10 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Regarding Scott Hamilton, I think some of his best work and most satisfying recordings are with top-flite pianists:

Wig:  Race Point and/or Radio City

Tommy Flanagan: After Hours

Gene Harris: At Last

Norman Simmons: My Romance

Appreciate those recs.  I shall get busy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chiming in late - preparing my own coming up next month, busy with all kinds of things.

1 - Very recent Cuban Jazz thing - the sound of these instruments irritates me, all sounding very artificial, and so precisely timed that it could be computer generated. Latin Percussion congas fiber or similar brand with water buffalo heads - not my taste. Is this one of those new Songo-type grooves? I do not feel at home in this type of rhythm, would have to study it first. Very competent players all, good soloists, probably all good sight readers. But this doesn't really touch me. No idea who this is.

2 - That alto player is very much in a Cannonball Adderley type of groove. But nice. Good soloists having a good time. Typical three stars track. Again, no idea.

3 - Tenor reminds me of Gene Ammons with his phrasing, but that is not his sound. Cannot identify anyone.

4 - Familiar tune, cannot recall the title. Good tenor, but cannot name him.

5 - God Bless The Child so modernized that it almost sounds like another tune. The brass behind the them reminds me of something else. I'm not listening to much of this at the time, so out of listening and identifying shape somehow. I hear some Hank Crawford phrases, but this is not him. 

6 - Some Charle Parker tune on a New Orleans type of groove. Good, but not really compelling to me.

More tomorrow.

Edited by mikeweil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, mikeweil said:

Chiming in late - preparing my own coming up next month, busy with all kinds of things.

1 - Very recent Cuban Jazz thing - the sound of these instruments irritates me, all sounding very artificial, and so precisely timed that it could be computer generated. Latin Percussion congas fiber or similar brand with water buffalo heads - not my taste. Is this one of those new Songo-type grooves? I do not feel at home in this type of rhythm, would have to study it first. Very competent players all, good soloists, probably all good sight readers. But this doesn't really touch me. No idea who this is.

2 - That alto player is very much in a Cannonball Adderley type of groove. But nice. Good soloists having a good time. Typical three stars track. Again, no idea.

3 - Tenor reminds me of Gene Ammons with his phrasing, but that is not his sound. Cannot identify anyone.

4 - Familiar tune, cannot recall the title. Good tenor, but cannot name him.

5 - God Bless The Child so modernized that it almost sounds like another tune. The brass behind the them reminds me of something else. I'm not listening to much of this at the time, so aout of listening and isentifying shape somehow. I hear some Hank Crawford phrases, but this is not him. 

6 - Some Charle Parker tune on a New Orleans type of groove. God, but not really compelling to me.

More tomorrow.

Thanks for joining in Mike. #1 is not "very recent" at least as I'd define the term. Pre-1995 and all live in the studio by real people. Jim Sangrey got the three (for me) principal musicians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, here's more:

7 - I like the tenor player, am curious who it is. He has his own brew cooked out of the many modal influences. Very Tyneresque piano. 

8 - Sounds like one of those mainstram players tracks the Black & Blue label made in the 1990's. nice stuff that I can listen to for hours.

9 - Something out of the good natured hard bop school. No idea who  they are.

10 - some classic tune from Basie's book, Shorty George. Frank Wess? 

11 - I like the trumpeter's tone and flow, he knows where he wants to go. But the pianist? To my ears he has no detination. But perhaps the track I liked the best due to its overall feeling.

Nothing I would run out and try to buy, but very nice listening and lots of wondering who plays. Thanks a lot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...