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sessions better on paper than on disc


CJ Shearn

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what are your picks for sessions that looked great on paper but kind of fell flat on record? Here are some of mine:

The Nearness of You-Michael Brecker: This session had some great possibilities with Herbie, Pat Metheny, Jack DeJohnette, and James Taylor as guest (who did a credible job) but the slow tempos really got things to be kind of stale fast.

Directions in Music: Live at Massey Hall: again, great lineup but the energy level is kind of low at points even though it is a good album. A bootleg I have from a few months prior smokes the released show.

Off the Top- Jimmy Smith. What could have been a old fashioned BN blowing date is kind of slowed by material as "Endless Love" which comes off as kinda cheesy.

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Excellent choice for a thread, but I'll have to think a bit about this one...

Actually, there is one CD I recently got, which falls pretty flat for me, despite the names in the line-up...

d25364y3996.jpg

Stanley Cowell's "Setup" (1995, Steeplechase).

Stanley Cowell - Piano

Eddie Henderson - Trumpet

Rick Margitza - Sax (Tenor)

Dick Griffin - Trombone

Peter Washington - Bass

Billy Hart - Drums

To my ears, none of the players were "on" that day, and the trombone player, Dick Griffin (who I've never heard of otherwise) nearly ruins every other tune on the disc. (Well, he's not quite that bad - but his intonation is really lousy in a number of places). I usually like Eddie Henderson in most contexts, but he sounds under-rehearsed here (as does the entire group), and tentitive in some of his solos. Margitza is usually OK in my book too, but this wasn't his best day either.

Anybody else have this CD, and think similarly?? (Or differently?? - are my ears on wrong???)

It just doesn't sound anywhere near what I hoped for, and really - several of the tracks are pretty crappy (or at least lifeless) in the perfomance department.

Cowell is often one of my favorite piano players, but not on this date....

Edited by Rooster_Ties
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  • 5 years later...

Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere.

A FICKLE SONANCE

Jackie McLean - alto sax

Tommy Turrentine - trumpet

Sonny Clark - piano

Butch Warren - bass

Billy Higgins - drums

Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN.

Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious?

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Wayne Shorter's Soothsayer

41PE5TYJ64L._AA240_.jpg

Wayne Shorter

James Spaulding

Freddie Hubbard

McCoy Tyner

Ron Carter

Tony Williams

I think you'd have a hard time finding a better group of musicians, but this album always struck me as dull. I can't say why exactly (I haven't listened to it for quite some time). Maybe it has something to do with Tyner and Williams not being a good fit?

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Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere.

A FICKLE SONANCE

Jackie McLean - alto sax

Tommy Turrentine - trumpet

Sonny Clark - piano

Butch Warren - bass

Billy Higgins - drums

Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears?

I'd say give it another try-there's some amazing playing on this disc, especially Butch's. I see this album as a segway between the hard-bop that he was trying to leave and the post-bop/avant garde that he was to explore on albums such as Let Fredom Ring, One Step Beyond and Destination Out!

ps: I was not impressed with the RVG treatment of this one-it sounds like it was recorded in a can!

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I see this album as a segway between the hard-bop that he was trying to leave and the post-bop/avant garde that he was to explore on albums such as Let Fredom Ring, One Step Beyond and Destination Out!

Pretty sure you don't mean this kind of segway

segway.jpg

but maybe this kind

Main Entry:

segue

Function:

intransitive verb

Inflected Form(s):

se·gued; se·gue·ing

Date:

circa 1913

1 : to proceed without pause from one musical number or theme to another 2 : to make a transition without interruption from one activity, topic, scene, or part to another <segued smoothly into the next story>

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Wayne Shorter's Soothsayer

41PE5TYJ64L._AA240_.jpg

Wayne Shorter

James Spaulding

Freddie Hubbard

McCoy Tyner

Ron Carter

Tony Williams

I think you'd have a hard time finding a better group of musicians, but this album always struck me as dull. I can't say why exactly (I haven't listened to it for quite some time). Maybe it has something to do with Tyner and Williams not being a good fit?

How could it not feel flat compared to Speak No Evil, JuJu, Etc and Adams Apple? It’s a four star record compared to a five but still solid with some very good compositions on it.

I didn’t think about it before but you may be right about the Williams and Tyner pairing in that I can’t think of any other Blue Notes with that combo off the top of my head. I think that may have something to do with a lack of fire but I also think of Soothsayer has a composition focus rather then a blowing one.

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Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere.

A FICKLE SONANCE

Jackie McLean - alto sax

Tommy Turrentine - trumpet

Sonny Clark - piano

Butch Warren - bass

Billy Higgins - drums

Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN.

Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious?

Once again here is more evidence that taste is a very personal thing. This album has always been one I like a lot.

Everyone sounds great to me on this one.

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Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere.

A FICKLE SONANCE

Jackie McLean - alto sax

Tommy Turrentine - trumpet

Sonny Clark - piano

Butch Warren - bass

Billy Higgins - drums

Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN.

Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious?

I'm halfway with you here. Personally, I think the album is a mixed bag, with some very good compositions, and some that are a bit on the dull side, but it doesn't hang together well as an album. I love the track "Enitnerrut" for one. Also, it's supposedly one of the worst RVG's soundwise, as ghost pointed out----a lot of others would agree with him. This might add to the sense of it just sitting there (if you've got the RVG.)

Edited by BruceH
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Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere.

A FICKLE SONANCE

Jackie McLean - alto sax

Tommy Turrentine - trumpet

Sonny Clark - piano

Butch Warren - bass

Billy Higgins - drums

Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN.

Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious?

Once again here is more evidence that taste is a very personal thing. This album has always been one I like a lot.

Everyone sounds great to me on this one.

I'll support that, Peter. In fact, I'll put it on now! :)

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I see this album as a segway between the hard-bop that he was trying to leave and the post-bop/avant garde that he was to explore on albums such as Let Fredom Ring, One Step Beyond and Destination Out!

Pretty sure you don't mean this kind of segway

segway.jpg

but maybe this kind

Main Entry:

segue

Function:

intransitive verb

Inflected Form(s):

se·gued; se·gue·ing

Date:

circa 1913

1 : to proceed without pause from one musical number or theme to another 2 : to make a transition without interruption from one activity, topic, scene, or part to another <segued smoothly into the next story>

The latter :g Momentary lapse of concentration.

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Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere.

A FICKLE SONANCE

Jackie McLean - alto sax

Tommy Turrentine - trumpet

Sonny Clark - piano

Butch Warren - bass

Billy Higgins - drums

Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN.

Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious?

I'm halfway with you here. Personally, I think the album is a mixed bag, with some very good compositions, and some that are a bit on the dull side, but it doesn't hang together well as an album. I love the track "Enitnerrut" for one. Also, it's supposedly one of the worst RVG's soundwise, as ghost pointed out----a lot of others would agree with him. This might add to the sense of it just sitting there (if you've got the RVG.)

Along with "Enitnerrut" I wanted to add that "A Fickle Sonance" is another standout track, IMO; some amazing playing by Butch here.

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Tadd Dameron's "The Magic Touch." Should have been great, judging from all those names. I guess it goes to show that even the best have their off days, just like the rest of us.

513WHLQVCoL._SS500_.jpg

Tadd Dameron

Joe Wilder

Clark Terry

Ernie Royal

Charlie Shavers

Jimmy Cleveland

Britt Woodman

Julius Watkins

Leo Wright

Jerry Dodgion

Jerome Richardson

Johnny Griffin

Tate Houston

Bill Evans

George Duvivier

Ron Carter

Philly Joe Jones

Edited by seeline
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Tadd Dameron's "The Magic Touch." Should have been great, judging from all those names. I guess it goes to show that even the best have their off days, just like the rest of us.

513WHLQVCoL._SS500_.jpg

Tadd Dameron

Joe Wilder

Clark Terry

Ernie Royal

Charlie Shavers

Jimmy Cleveland

Britt Woodman

Julius Watkins

Leo Wright

Jerry Dodgion

Jerome Richardson

Johnny Griffin

Tate Houston

Bill Evans

George Duvivier

Ron Carter

Philly Joe Jones

Very few of those Riverside medium-sized to big band dates came off IMO. Engineering, Keepnews, some routine-oriented players, etc.

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Glad I did some searchin', I knew there'd been a thread about this somewhere.

A FICKLE SONANCE

...

Would someone PLEASE tell me why this album bores me to tears? I mean, Jackie Mac is only one of my favorite alto players (if not THE favorite) and a lot of times is THE definition of jazz for me; Sonny Clark? Did he ever NOT swing? Smilin' Billy, again another favorite and, Art Blakey notwithstanding, THE definition of swing for me. And this same trio (Clark/Warren/Higgins) backed Dex on the magical sessions that produced GO and A SWINGIN' AFFAIR, not to mention Sonny's own LEAPIN & LOPIN.

Was this one of those rare instances where EVERYONE was having an off-day? Or am I the only one who's missing the obvious?

I'm halfway with you here. Personally, I think the album is a mixed bag, with some very good compositions, and some that are a bit on the dull side, but it doesn't hang together well as an album. I love the track "Enitnerrut" for one. Also, it's supposedly one of the worst RVG's soundwise, as ghost pointed out----a lot of others would agree with him. This might add to the sense of it just sitting there (if you've got the RVG.)

Along with "Enitnerrut" I wanted to add that "A Fickle Sonance" is another standout track, IMO; some amazing playing by Butch here.

I really like "Five Will Get You Ten", and sometimes play the CD to hear that tune. Agree that the album's uneven, but I don't find it too disappointing.

The sound quality of the RVG is really horrible (I've heard it called the "AM radio RVG"), so I don't listen to the disc that often. It sounds like it was recorded in a toilet stall; maybe Sen. Larry Craig was moonlighting as an engineer...

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Very few of those Riverside medium-sized to big band dates came off IMO. Engineering, Keepnews, some routine-oriented players, etc.

I hear you - for me, it's particularly disappointing to have had this happen with an entire LP's-worth of Tadd's music.

I, OTOH, really enjoy this album, as well as most of these kinds of Riverside dates (Cannonball's "African Waltz" notwithstanding). The Jimmy Heath albums, the Blue Mitchell albums, this album..... I love 'em all! Different strokes, I guess.

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