Tim McG

And I have to wonder why Paterno isn't accorded the same consideration as the eye witness? I have witnessed, heard about, seen the bruises from and the emotional fallout in numerous child abuse cases in my line of work. Some where I just had to go outside and vomit. Some which still haunt my memory to this day. Would you give me the same free pass because I was too emotionally distraught to do or say anything about it? There is absolutely no excuse for an eye witness not to report on child abuse. None. And the minute we say it's OK to not report is the day we continue to push child abuse under ground and out of sight of the authorities who will punish the molesters. The graduate assistant waited TEN years before saying anything. Just exactly how long do we give an emotionally shocked eyewitness before he should come forward and do his duty?

Excellent post, Dan. Sorry I missed this. Oh for heaven's sake. Like you would be in any way mentally or emotionally prepared for walking into your college team locker room and see a guy you've known and probably looked up to for half your life doing what Sandusky was doing. McQueary's reaction in the moment was regrettable but let's not pretend that it wasn't within the range of "normal" human responses to seeing what he saw. Well, if we are expecting Paterno to see ten years into the future...why shouldn't the grad assistant "be prepared"? Sure. Right after you show "empathy" for Paterno. Yet you expect Paterno to do more than he did? Wouldn't it be equally impossible to imagine what it would be like to have been in Paterno's shoes at the time he was told about the assault?

I have to disagree, Jon. As I have stated before, any one of us who have had to report on child abuse will tell you the exact same thing: I wish I could do more. The greatest tragedy is nobody is giving credit to Paterno for following reporting procedure and understanding when no investigation is done, the assumption is the man wasn't guilty of anything. How we can allow ourselves to believe in a dereliction of duty ten years in retrospect is beyond me. Nobody can predict with any certainty if a man like Sandusky, who wasn't prosecuted or charged because the officials who needed to didn't follow through, is or will continue to be a child molester. Nobody can see the future before it happens and that is exactly what people here expected Paterno to do. Sorry, Dan. My fault for not reading the posts before this one.

The eye witness was the graduate assistant, Dan. If, in review, we are to believe "Paterno didn't do enough" because he only reported the alleged abuse to his superiors...where is the public outcry over the fact the graduate assistant did exactly the very same thing? Question: Who, then, is really responsible for Sandusky's continued child abuse? Answer: The graduate assistant. But the media jackals go after Paterno because he has the name recognition for splashy headlines and wagging tongues on the evening news, talk shows and blog sites Nation wide. Paterno is the scapegoat. Period.

Was Joe Paterno "wrongly accused and fired for child molestation"? - your words. Perhaps you know something the rest of us don't know. Most of what he knows the rest of us don't. This wasn't something like shoplifting, ya know. Sure the witness should have gone straight to the police, but anybody in a position of authority aware of the accusations should have too if their authority/responsibility is to mean anything beyond a paycheck. The firings were correct and just, the rioting students are immature jerks without a properly developed moral worldview, and Goodspeak remains Goodspeak. And it is a good thing, Pete. Otherwise, the prevailing attitude of "he should have been able to know what would happen ten years into the future" would become status quo. Somebody needs to point out the grim realities regarding child abuse reporting and who is really at fault. Again, the Salem Witch Trials should have taught us that much.

No worries here. Only if you want it to it will. Step away, homey. How you could draw that conclusion from what I wrote is beyond me. This isn't about Penn State football at all. It's about child abuse. Just curious. Has it occurred to you that not a single member of this board buys into what you're saying. The people who walk and talk these halls and walls are not your average run-of-the-mill knuckleheads. It's a fairly bright bunch. That by itself should make you question and/or reassess your position. Even "bright" people can be wrong, Dave. It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.

So you're still laboring under the delusion this is about PSU Football? Really? This is about a man who is being scapegoated for a crime he did not commit and because his name is bigger than all the rest of the jackasses involved...including the molester himself. Trust me, he had much more power than the President of the University. Real power. He was not a figurehead. He has implanted a sick, macho mentality into the heads of many a Pennsylvania farm boy. Sandusky was an extension of Paterno. However, Paterno is guilty of a much more overriding and long lasting crime --- that of making sports more important than life. I have seen this up close and personal, as I've been hinting at all along. Keep up, man. You're like 4 or 5 thought processes behind me! I don't disagree that this mentality exists...hell, we have that here at the HS where I teach. Both my kids have had to deal with it. It disgusts me. However, the guilty and the PSU officials who turned a blind eye to Sandusky are the ones ! fault for this. As should all of you, as well. I'll work on keeping up, thought process-wise, OK?

Proof? Once again, we see that assumption rules the day. You're right. Perhaps they weren't drunk. Maybe they were just a bunch of wild destructive vandals. Either way - you still classed yourself with them. Proof? They were all "wild destructive vandals"? Every one of them? Once again, we see asumption rules the day. And I will happily align myself with any college student with the huevos to stand up for a man wrongly accused and fired for child molestation...any day of the week. My conscience is clear.

And the focus should be on that grad assistant who didn't call the authorities [given the "logic" displayed on this BBS regarding CPS reporting] and not on a coach who had nothing to do with the crime.

So you're still laboring under the delusion this is about PSU Football? Really? This is about a man who is being scapegoated for a crime he did not commit and because his name is bigger than all the rest of the jackasses involved...including the molester himself.

Proof? Once again, we see that assumption rules the day. As do all of us who report on child abuse. Or you could all read the actual statute. Legal counsel for Curley, Schultz and Paterno are using a loophole to get by. Just. not. acceptable. Oh? And how is it "acceptable" for that grad assistant who didn't use that 24-hour hotline, eh? Where is the public outcry over that? You guys have shown me that a lynch mob mentality is alive and well in this country. Shame. You are still focusing only on a tragic result of a BIGGER problem, dude. My best guess is that McQueary has avoided scrutiny so far because he is unfortunate proof of the product PSU has been pedaling for decades -- production of BAD human beings exhibiting BAD behavior. Bullshit. He's escaped scrutiny because his name isn't Joe Paterno. They ought to fry his ass. And you can take that to the bank.

As do all of us who report on child abuse. Or you could all read the actual statute. Legal counsel for Curley, Schultz and Paterno are using a loophole to get by. Just. not. acceptable. Oh? And how is it "acceptable" for that grad assistant who didn't use that 24-hour hotline, eh? Where is the public outcry over that? You guys have shown me that a lynch mob mentality is alive and well in this country. Shame. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7214380/joe-paterno-president-graham-spanier-penn-state Looks like I'm in good company regarding the classless firing of Joe Paterno [on a taped recording]: Thousands of Penn State students riot over Paterno's firing And I hope Penn State never recovers from this.

Point? Point is, if you're a leader and something like this comes to your attention, you need to lead, not hand off the technicalities, step back, and say "all done, I got work to do, see ya'!" And if you're not a leader, then why you making all that money and getting all that glory? I know real worlds can get complicated and political and all that stuff, but good god, you get a report of one of your underlings sodomizing a 10 year old on school property, it's pretty much time to lead. I've no doubt that Joe Paterno has done a lot of good things for a lot of people over the years and has been a true leader in many ways on many occasions. But this, this is just on big giant FAIL. A true leader knows when and with whom to leave the responsiblity to pursue legal avenues unavailable to him. What you are assuming is Paterno just wanted to get this off his plate and duck the issue. He did what the law expected of him. What did you want him to do...form a lynch mob? C'mon, Jim. Use your power to reason.

If you KNEW someone abused children before and was allowed to remain around them, then it was reported to you that that person raped yet another child, your only thought is to wash your hands of it - legally speaking - by reporting it to your boss?? Then when that person is allowed to continue hanging out in showers with young boys,and you know it - you feel you have done your job, so all's good? Yes, I'd say you would be guilty of not doing enough, if all you did was report it to your boss, and nothing else. Absolutely. Wash my hands....I can't even believe you said that. I have dedicated my LIFE to the education and protection of my students. How dare you even assume you know what's in my heart or in my ability to report on such things. I mean the absolute nerve. All Paterno knows is an alleged eye witness told him of sexual abuse. That's it. All I ever know is what the student tells me. That's it. I make the report and contact CPS through my written response. That is all I can do. Yet you have the unmitigated gall to sit in judgement of me and my abilty to discharge my legal duties as a frontline reporter of child abuse? Really? I am singularly amazed, Aggie. Tell me, have you had to report on child abuse...ever? I'll be as direct as I can with you, Aggie...you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. None. Only if he is guilty of some impropriety. Otherwise, there is no good reason for him to leave. I don't have any doubt he is guilty of "impropriety," and most responsible people don't either. Lucky for him the grand jury decided he wasn't guilty of a crime. Any other teacher (and that i what he is) would not have fared so well. You have set the standard so low for moral and ethical behavior that it would be a bad thing if it ever became common. Let me ask you: what if it was your kid in that shower? What if it was YOU in that shower? Which reminded me of this article: Paterno BYSTANDER Huh? Who are these "most responsible people" you speak of...all members of the court of opinion? Evidence, dear boy, where is the evidence to support your broad speculation? I won't even dignify your thoughtless questions about something which has no bearing at all on this case. How inappropriate. And completely abusive. Not so abused as the little boys that WERE abused. How utterly inappropriate of you to even insinuate that. Thoughtless questions? That's your problem: you don't want to deal with the situation as it was and is. Just some hyper technical point about evidence, as best as I can make out. You're wrong on that too. Hope nobody ever has to depend on you to step up and do the right thing. Deal with it...you have just GOT to be kidding me. Go back and read what I have already posted. That is, if you can. Geez, What an abusive jerk. Maybe somebody needs to report on your abusivness, eh? Wow.

Only if he is guilty of some impropriety. Otherwise, there is no good reason for him to leave. I don't have any doubt he is guilty of "impropriety," and most responsible people don't either. Lucky for him the grand jury decided he wasn't guilty of a crime. Any other teacher (and that i what he is) would not have fared so well. You have set the standard so low for moral and ethical behavior that it would be a bad thing if it ever became common. Let me ask you: what if it was your kid in that shower? What if it was YOU in that shower? Which reminded me of this article: Paterno BYSTANDER Huh? Who are these "most responsible people" you speak of...all members of the court of opinion? Evidence, dear boy, where is the evidence to support your broad speculation? I won't even dignify your thoughtless questions about something which has no bearing at all on this case. How inappropriate. And completely abusive.

Point?

While he have have done enough legally, he SURE didn't do enough morally. There's grand jury evidence that Paterno knew about an on-campus Sandusky molestation in 1998 - Sandusky even admitted to wrongdoing, and Paterno basically let Sandusky stick around the campus anyway. If you don't think everybody deferred to Joe Paterno on that decision, you're fooling yourself. Then 4 years later, when another Sandusky child rape occurs in the PSU football showers and is brought to Paterno, his decision is to just let his "bosses" know? "Oh by the way boss, Sandusky was caught 'horsing around' in the showers with a 10 year old again." Mentally, he's ok with whatever happens after that? To include allowing Sandusky to continue to be on campus AND continue to bring young boys to the football team showers repeatedly?? Reportedly the number of victims that have come forward is about 20 now (8-9 are confirmed or at least credible at this point). For that he should be roundly condemned. Legally maybe he did enough. Morally, he's a complete, utter failure. To be sure, Sandusky is the monster. But McQueary (the 2002 witness who by remaining silent appears to have been promoted up the coaching ranks at PSU), Paterno, the AD, and the school President (and any others who were reported to) are all guilty of allowing that monster to continue his evil. Had Paterno gone to the police after reporting to his boss, he'd be revered in the public eye for being morally upright. Whether he was at risk of losing his job (as the most powerful person at PSU, doubtful) or not. And even if he had somehow bizarrely lost his job, there would have been dozens of equivalent jobs available to him around the country immediately. But since he didn't and aided in the continued coverup, he deserves the public scorn he'll have the rest of his life. In my opinion. Again, that is not how the reporting of child abuse works, Aggie. Besides, what we know now is not what Paterno knew then and as a second hand reporter, the eye witness should have been the guy to do far more than he did. Where is the public outcry on that point? I just don't see how we can blame Paterno for not doing more when at the time there was nothing more to do but report it. If we are going to place blame for information on a person in retrospect then nobody is safe from being blamed for anything regarding children. How can anyone believe that an allegation should be treated as if he knew what happened ten years after the fact? Then hammer him because he didn't? That's crazy. He didn't see it, he wasn't there and he wasn't a part of Sandusky's abuse. It was an allegation which came to nothing because Penn State officials, whom he reported to, did nothing. Now how else should he act based on that scenario...continue with his own investigation? Nothing happened so he goes on as if nothing was wrong. Anybody would. People make false accusations all the time and in the education biz, we deal with actual evidence of wrong doing not speculation or assumption. Otherwise, we'd be doing nothing else but look for child abuse. That isn't our job. Our job is to do the work of the school/university. After I make a report on child abuse, I don't hunt the guy down or arrest anybody. That is the job of the authorities. Yet using this line of reasoning, I should be guilty of not doing enough because my boss didn't carry through? The officials are the ones who blew it. Unless there is evidence to the contary, blaming Paterno is just plain wrong.

Only if he is guilty of some impropriety. Otherwise, there is no good reason for him to leave.

The media should be ashamed? Have you read Pdf file of the grand jury proceedings concerning Jerry Sandusky And Paterno let this monster on campus for 10 years after knowing what this POS was doingN Now I understand why I stopped reading your posts back in the Barry Bonds days. It's too late now I've already had a stroke Barry Bonds....WTF does a conviction on obstruction of justice have to do with child molestation? Um. Sure, Randy. On topic: He reported an allegation to the authorities. He did his job and the Penn State officials did not do theirs. That does not make him culpable nor does it make him the criminal. Sandusky is the child molester which Paterno and everybody else [excepting the AD and his assistant] learned long after the fact, Randy. Or perhaps you don't understand what an unproven, uninvestigated allegation is. I won't speculate. You are damning Paterno in hindsight. Like he should be able to read the future somehow? This would be like getting pissed at the police because they should have known who a muderer is before he commits the murder. Maybe you need to actually read the PDF file, eh? Then look for an excuse for your verbal abusiveness. I think that is just wrong. If Penn State has any guts, they will refuse his offer of resignation.

So the media wins. And who was the guilty party again...? Wow.

I submit, words do mean one helluva lot...especially if we listen to the media jackals circle in for the "kill" on Paterno like they have. Reporting news ahead of the facts and trying Paterno in a speculative kangaroo court is just plain bullshit. The media should be ashamed of themselves.

Maybe now we see just how complicated the process of ID'ing then convicting child abusers really is. And if the officials dropped the ball or declined to report they, not Paterno, are guilty of breaking the law.

It's blind speculation like Madden's which perpetuates the myth a reporter of sexual abuse is somehow a part of the crime itself. Asking questions like that is sheer foolishness and could be asked of anyone about anything in order to create "guilt" where none exists. C'mon, PhillyQ...who's the criminal here? Sandusky or Paterno? Glad to. My feeling is if a person has never had to report a crime of child abuse based upon an allegation, they have no idea how much is at stake or what the emotional cost is to the reporting individual. I wholeheartedly believe that Madden raises a very valid point --- that big money college athletics is as much to blame for the crimes and covering up of those crimes that are committed by the scum it produces as the scum itself. Why is this so difficult to understand??? How can one possibly idolize the morons who populate professional sports with a clear conscience??? I don't disagree. But we are dealing with whether or not Paterno did what is required of him according to the law. A separate issue from rank and baseless speculation or idolizing sports figures.

It's blind speculation like Madden's which perpetuates the myth a reporter of sexual abuse is somehow a part of the crime itself. Asking questions like that is sheer foolishness and could be asked of anyone about anything in order to create "guilt" where none exists. C'mon, PhillyQ...who's the criminal here? Sandusky or Paterno? Glad to. My feeling is if a person has never had to report a crime of child abuse based upon an allegation, they have no idea how much is at stake or what the emotional cost is to the reporting individual.

Are you kidding? It would be one thing to hold a big press conference and declare Sandusky a pederast, but I find it extremely hard to believe that there are no legal protections for those who bypass their institution's chain of command to report this kind of crime directly to the police. Paterno not only did nothing once it was clear the administration had decided to sweep the whole Sandusky thing under the rug, he appears to be saying Mike McQueary lied to the grand jury about what McQueary specifically told Paterno. Tell you what...when it's your turn to report on something like this you can usurp the chain of command and see what happens to you, OK? Oh and good luck with that law suit the accused will slap you with and the non-support from your boss, CPS and the police because YOU thought you didn't have to follow the legal procedure. I will unilaterally accept your wishes of good luck. Because if I ever see a child attacked or hear a first-hand account from a witness of a child being attacked like that, I will go to the police, not my "boss". I find it reprehensible that you would express an opinion that people who are victims of assault or witnesses to it should have something to fear by speaking to the police. So we're talking about the alleged eye witness now? That is a completly different thing than being a reporter of an allegation. I have seen children attacked in a physically damaging way and I have stepped in and stopped it myself. That is NOT the same thing as hearing an allegation then reporting it to one's superiors. Stay on topic, OK? I believe I was. If a grad assistant came to me and told me that he had witnessed a boy being attacked in the campus showers, my first call isn't to an athletic director, it's to the police. I drive that grad assistant over to the police station myself and have him tell investigators what he saw. I get the justice system involved before I concern myself with anything else. Period. OK. Then when you get to the police they will ask you if you filed a report with Child Protective Services. Then, if the allegations are false, you get to deal with the eventual fallout...on your own, with absolutely no support. Then, the name of the child you mention's family will want to get a piece of you as well. If ID'ing child abusers was that simple, there would be no child abuse. That is why those procedures are in place: To protect the reporter as well as the victim and the accused. Otherwise, accusations would fly over anything, true or not, and innocent individuals as well as the guilty will suffer great harm. Not to be flip about it but the Salem Witch Trials should have taught us that much, don't you think?