a little kraut/prog corner...

[Guest akanalog]

i have been trying to get more into 70s krautrock and progressive rock.

perhaps this has stemmed from my band having to learn some pink floyd tunes for a benefit show...i dunno...

anyway- i have explored a whole bunch of bands...and i guess what i have found is i am a lot more drawn to what is considered krautrock than what is considered progressive rock though i am not even really sure what these definitions mean.

but at the local nyc stores there is a ton of stuff that looks cool with some crazy covers and i was wondering if anyone here had any personal favorites.

there is this german label garden of delights which seems to be cranking out some high quality reissues i have been trying to check out but they aren't the easiest thing to find here...

i know some of the obvious stuff. i really like the can i have heard(though i feel many of their albums are marred by longer avante pieces) and i don't care for the yes i have heard too much.

i really like the few albums by the band embryo i have heard, i think i like the little popol vuh i have heard and i really like this band agitation free i heard a few albums by.

i heard a few more progressive considered bands also, such as indian summer and web, and i had more mixed feelings on this stuff as they had some over dramatic vocals and heavy handed changes and arrangements, in my opinion.

but i am curious if anyone has any albums along these lines or more out there that they enjoy since i see a lot of stuff that looks interesting but since it is mostly european labels it is a bit more costly and i don't want to step wrong.

right now this band novalis is catching my eye as something to check out...

i really like all sorts of keyboard sounds, vocals i can go either way on, and i like the weird ethnic influences i am hearing in some of the stuff i am checking out.

well thank you for any pointers and perhaps this thread can helps someone else out too.

[John B]

Two bands you should check out that you didn't mention are Neu! and Faust. Start with the first, self-titled Neu! album and Faust IV. If you decide to explore more Can you should be aware that their first four albums have all just been reissued with what I have been told is vastly improved sound.

[Brandon Burke]

You mentioned NYC shops so I'm guessing you went to Other Music. One of my oldest buddies is a manager there. (I'll email you his name when I'm done with this. You can tell him that I sent you.) He knows way too much about all genres of music but he is especially helpful with psychedelic stuff. And he's not into corny prog. And, believe me, other than a few exceptions--early Soft Machine, for example--most prog is REALLY f*cking corny. Sorry dudes.

Your issue with Can--the long avant pieces--is something you're going to have to learn to swallow if you plan on listening to either of these genres. That's rather like having a problem with dissonance but really wanting to get into George Russell. It's a package deal, man. Either that, or you simply have to accept that you're going to only listen to about 70% of these records. That said, I would start with Can Ege Bamyasi because (1) the song lengths are shorter and (2) it's arguably their most accessible record. (Someone is going to disagree with me here. I can feel it.) From there you probably want Tago Mago and Moster Movie. I happen to like Future Days better than both of those records but most people that I know do not. Whatever, right. Tago Mago in particular is very very good but it does have some *noise* pieces. The 18-minute "Halleluhwah", however, is worth the price of the disc all by itself so I'm pretty much telling you that you want it.

John is quite right about both NEU! and Faust. I feel pretty comfortable telling you that you really only need NEU!'s first record (NEU!) seeing that the second (NEU! 2) is very literally the same song at different speeds. As for Faust, I would begin with Faust IV but I say that because that's where I began and it worked well for me. That one also features the tune "Krautrock"...so there you go.

Look out for Amon Duul II as well. I'd go for the Yeti LP if I were you. And be careful with the original Amon Duul (i.e. before they formed Amon Duul II) because that stuff is seriously noisy and not at all unlike musique concrete at times.

Enjoy!

[Guest akanalog]

thanks for the responses guys.

like i said, i kind of have the basics down.

i have checked out faust and neu! and found both to be ok...didn't love either.

i am looking to find out about the more difficult to learn about stuff...

and when it comes to can, i have come to terms with my dislike of the long avante pieces by accepting that "future days" is really the only can album i will find totally satisfying. i have downloaded some great live stuff i like a bunch better than the official double disc can release.

i have checked out amon duul II. i have listened to yeti and tanze der lemmings and phallus dei. it wall aight. a little too rocky and there was some experimental stuff i didn't care for-at least on tanze. i want to check out wolf city though.

i checked out one ash ra temple album-"join inn", and am not sure about it. sort of meanders and is a bit too spacy.

and i guess i am finding out that most proggy stuff is kind of corny.

i am talking about stuff like-

right now i am listening to a disc by a band dom called "edge of time". it is ok. actually i am not too impressed. a little too formless and spacy without much development.

and earlier, as i mentioned in the greeze thread, i checked an album by a german band called trikolon-"cluster" (released on garden of delight). this album was interesting-late 60s proggy organ trio with some jazz touches.

but thanks for the recommendations. i have done my initial research though, and am ready to dive into the hard stuff.

well that isn't totally true. i do appreciate finding out which album by these artists you think is most essential-like the first neu! album. and i am still not sure what guru guru to check out.

but yeah, i have heard every can album and "future days" is the only one i still listen to on a regular basis. one of my favorite albums.

i am having a hard time because some of the krautrock stuff is too spacy and the prog stuff is too aggressive. i am trying to find a middle ground, i guess....

i checked out this band eiliff, with a young rainer bruninghaus on organ, and this almost did it-but was still a little too "tight" rhythm-wise in a proggy way.

[AfricaBrass]

Have you read the Krautrocksampler book by Julian Cope? I think it's an interesting introduction.

When I was exploring Krautrock, I was told to find albums released on the OHR label. That was the supposed to be the better stuff. Maybe look for those Cosmic Jokers albums. They're a sort of compilation of various German musicians. They're really out there.

I think you might like Amon Duul II's Wolf City. It's not as out there, but it's pretty good IMO. I too like the first two Agitation Free albums.

I'd also check out the early Klaus Schultze albums. Also, the first four Tangerine Dream albums are good (especially Zeit), also Kraftwerk is always great. Another group that I enjoy is Cluster, their first couple albums are good. Harmonia is a spinoff of Cluster and Neu and I recommend checking their album out.

Here's a website I just found that looks interesting:

Krautrock site

Good luck!

[Guest akanalog]

yeah i saw harmonia in a store and it looks interesting. nice cover art.

i am not sure i am ready to check out the more electronic side of krautrock but i guess i should.

i have heard kraftwerk before, of course, and it is cool. didn't love it.

i think i might like klaus schulze and tangerine dream though.

schulze was on this ash ra temple album i checked out though and i suspect it was his influence that made it so spacy.

if you like agitation free-the album i heard i really liked was-um, it was called "at the cliffe of the rhine" or something-it is a live recording released by garden of delight and it had some songs definitely off of the second album which is awesome and maybe the first two which i haven't heard yet.

[AfricaBrass]

I haven't heard that Agitation Free album. I have the first two cds. It's funny, my friend who is really into experimental and ambient music likes the first cd better, but I like the second one, because it sort of reminds me of early Grateful Dead.

If you can, try to hear some sound samples on Amazon to see if you like the Tangerine Dream stuff. To me, their album Zeit is a real experience. Try to hear it first.

As for Kraftwerk, try to hear one of their really early albums from before Autobahn. They're different, you might like that.

If the Harmonia cd you saw is the one with the detergent bottle on the cover, I suggest getting it, especially if you like Neu.

Krautrock is great stuff. I wish I had the time and money to explore more of it.

[Guest akanalog]

um i dont really have the time or the money-which is why i am asking for pointers. i am trying to cheat a bit. well i listen to music while i work so i guess i do have the time in that respect.

also i have gotten totally burnt out on all hard bop and earlier style of jazz so all my jazz time and money is going into other genres right now. (well i will always love early electric jazz and rock and ethnic fusion from about '68-'73 but this kind of stuff is still underrepresented in the CD world)

[Guest akanalog]

i also think agitation free sounds like the dead a bit. or a friend was over the other day and he thought it sounded like phish. whatever, take your pick...

but i like the way agitation free jams.

i am telling you, check out this live disc i was talking about.

[neveronfriday]

There's an excellent CAN DVD out (languages: English, German; subtitles: English, French) region: no region info I could find right now ... no idea if it came out in the US).

Contents:

DVD 1

1. Can-Free-Concert, a film by Peter Przygodda

2. Can Notes, an intimate film by Hildegard Schmidt

3. Photogallery

4. New Remixes in 5.1. surround sound; Footage and Interviews

5. Discography

6. DVDconnector PC only DVD Rom Link

7. Subtitle Selection: English + French

DVD 2

1. Can - Documentary by R. Dolezal & H. Rossacher

2. A short tribute film to Can by Brian Eno

3. Echo Awards Presentation Footage

4. Biographies Can and Collaborater's

5. History

6. DVDconnector PC only DVD Rom Link

7. Subtitle Selection: English + French

Audio CD

1. I. Schmidt & Kumo - Goatfooted Balloonman

2. I. Schmidt & Kumo - Fledermenschen (live)

3. I. Schmidt & Kumo - Plumas del Búho

4. J. Liebezeit & Burnt Friedman - Rhein Lauf

5. J. Liebezeit & Drums Off Chaos - On A Can

6. J. Liebezeit & Drums Off Chaos - Velociraptor (live)

7. H. Czukay & U-She - Solitary Life (live)

8. H. Czukay & U-She - Time And Tide (live)

9. H. Czukay & U-She - Cruise (live)

10. H. Czukay & U-She - Sunday Morning (live)

11. M. Karoli & Sofortkontakt! - Lumpy Todda (live)

12. M. Karoli & Sofortkontakt! - Pounding Venus (live)

13. M. Karoli & Sofortkontakt! - Research Has... (live)

Here's the German Amazon link.

Cheers!

P.S.: The most recent CAN remasters are excellent, so I am told. I don't have any of this myself, but the DVD I found fascinating (borrowed it from a friend and watched it several times).

Edited January 11, 2005 by deus62

[AfricaBrass]

(well i will always love early electric jazz and rock and ethnic fusion from about '68-'73 but this kind of stuff is still underrepresented in the CD world)

I know you have some Fela Kuti in your collection...

That's great stuff.

Let me see if I can think of any interesting Krautrock...

I remember the first Guru Guru (UFO) album was good, so was the first Brainticket (it was the self titled album), their later albums weren't too hot.

One interesting CD I have is by Yatha Siddra, it's called A Meditation Mass.

I like some of the Amon Duul 1 stuff. The album I dig is called Paradieswarts Duul. It's kind of a tribal sing-along, but it's far better than their other albums. I wouldn't spend the money on them. I did to my regret.

One album I haven't heard yet, but gets rave reviews is Walter Wegmuller - Tarot.

[AfricaBrass]

There's an excellent CAN DVD out (languages: English, German; subtitles: English, French) region: no region info I could find right now ... no idea if it came out in the US).

This is available in the US.

I've been wanting this for a while, but it's $50 and I never get myself to part with the cash. One of these days I'm going to get it.

I'd love to see them performing, especially with Damo or Malcolm Mooney.

[AfricaBrass]

i also think agitation free sounds like the dead a bit. or a friend was over the other day and he thought it sounded like phish. whatever, take your pick...

but i like the way agitation free jams.

i am telling you, check out this live disc i was talking about.

I will if I can find it.

I just realized I have a third Agitation Free disc called Last. I need to get that out of my storage room and give it another listen.

[neveronfriday]

Oh, the free concert (1972, I think) on the DVD was attended by over 10.000 people.

Wild and great stuff.

Peter Przygodda worked a lot with Wim Wenders. Excellent film.

Cheers!

[AfricaBrass]

Oh, the free concert (1972, I think) on the DVD was attended by over 10.000 people.

Wild and great stuff.

Peter Przygodda worked a lot with Wim Wenders. Excellent film.

Cheers!

You're pushing me over the edge. I know where there is a copy locally...

[Brandon Burke]

I don't want you to take this the wrong way but it sounds like you're looking for a very particular sound that may or may not actually exist. After all, just because you've got a well-defined idea about your ideal Kraut/prog record in your head, it doesn't mean that anyone ever made it.

And hell...I love when that happens. That means I get to write that song! B-)

[Guest akanalog]

nah no way brandonburke, i am enjoying exploring and seeing whats out there.

and i am finding a lot of stuff i really like.

i guess it is kind of the same as me checking out free jazz-a lot of it i am not crazy about, but the stuff that hits me really hits me.

but feel free to write me the ideal krautrock song if you like...

to respond to africabrass, i do have some fela but burnt out on it quickly.

i have checked out brainticket. i have heard "cottonwood hill" which is insane. i am not sure if i like it or not-this album starts with some serious grooving almost funk which sounds like beastie boys instrumentals but quickly turns into a woman raving during a real or imagined acid trip over a repeated organ riff for like 20 mintues. i also heard "celestial ocean", the third album i guess, and this is really cool. some of it is a bit slow-but there is a nice mixture of acoustic guitar and synths and weird vocals.

i have also heard the yatha siddhra CD-"a meditation mass" and am not sure how i feel about it yet. i am not sure i like it or find it boring. i mean it is basically one 40 minute bass groove which changes in tempo and adds flute or electric piano or harder guitar every now and then.

but these are the kind of recommendations i am looking for. thank you very much.

[WD45]

For something contemporary, I see that Damo has recorded a double set with Cul de Sac that seems interesting.

Another contemporary one to look up is Dalek vs Faust. They got together [a Detroit hip hop trio and a German Kraut-Rock band--it was bound to happen ] and did this heavy album Derbe Respect, Alder. Nice. But you gotta be into hip hop at least a little to dig the ride.

[hutch head]

Dude, do you have any Hawkwind? If you like the proggier side of Floyd, you can't go wrong. The two best albums are "In Search of Space" and "Doremi Fasol Latido."

On a side note, has anyone heard of a Swedish band called Dungen? All of my friends who work in record stores in Chicago are saying that "Ta Det Lugnt," a 2004 release, is the best new prog record in years.

[Guest akanalog]

i have heard of dungen. yeah, it is a swedish dude, and it gets rave reviews.

my feelings on this would be the same as my feelings on listening to jazz from after the 1970s...

whats the point? why not listen to the originals?

but that is a different discussion i guess....

[hutch head]

Yeah, sure, what's the point? Makes a lot of sense . . . coming from a guy who likes "Future Days" better than "Monster Movie," "Tago Mago," "Ege Bamyasi," "Soundtracks," and "Can Delay '68."

Anyone hear the newly remastered "Lucifer Rising" soundtrack (1973) by Bobby Beausoleil? Apparently, he recorded it in prison with some help from the warden and other inmates. It sounds like side 2 of "Meddle."

[Guest akanalog]

well that is apples and oranges.

one could argue "future days" is a more mature work by an artist i like...but can was still creating new and interesting music.

but dungen is recreating an older form of music rather than creating something new.

it is two different things: an old band making new music and a new band making old music....

[Chalupa]

http://www.progarchives.com/

[Guest akanalog]

maybe agitation free can wear a bit thin. on their second album at least some of the jams get a little too ecstatic twining guitar-style. a little too much allmans and not enough can.

[Chalupa]

On a side note, has anyone heard of a Swedish band called Dungen? All of my friends who work in record stores in Chicago are saying that "Ta Det Lugnt," a 2004 release, is the best new prog record in years.

Love, LOVE, this album. Get it.

Dungen, is actually a one man band - Gustav Ejstes.