Tom Harrell

[fasstrack]

well, I think that jazzshrink can recognize the symptoms - I would suggest that Mingus was bipolar, from all descriptions of those who knew him, and he certainly accomplished a lot -

My own brother is 'bipolar', and unfortunately doesn't have a creative outlet as I do---not to mention the geniuses discussed here. The poor man suffers so, but, I strongly believe, has more self-control than he realizes. I tell him always that if he took a step back and thought before acting in some of the reactive ways he does he could avoid many of the pickles he finds himself in. Also he'd feel better about himself, having accomplished something on his own rather than feeling like he's watching his life play out as a tragedy---helplessly from the balcony.

I love my brother. I don't know if this advice helps him, but am compelled to give it by said love and desire for him to be happy. He appreciates it and I believe in time can put a such plan into effect to improve his life. I like Sonny Rollins' comment: 'every day you're alive you get another chance'. I also believe he is less sick than he believes he is, though certainly he is ill. Mentally ill people tend to be smart, though, and can learn to 'trick' their illnesses into receding somewhat. The same brain 'smart' enough to twist itself into knots can also untwist itself.

Thoughts on this, quorum?

[robviti]

i usually refrain from commenting on things psychiatric on the board because everyone has their own opinion, and my clinical expertise is not what's usually needed. however, your statements are so blatantly wrong and offensive to individuals who are dealing with major mental illness, that i felt the need/right to respond. this will be my last post on the subject, so here it goes:

Ok, you can simplify psychology all you want. Maybe some people will believe you. Narrow categorization serves the psychological community and the giant pharmaceuticals quite nicely. You can't treat it unless you can define it. And you can't make money off it unless you can treat it.

simplify? narrow categorization? i don't see how clarifying an incorrect diagnosis does that. your label of biploar disorder is no broader or more complex. and an attack on the field of psychology and psychiatry is just a play to the crowd. why don't you tell it to tom crusie. i'm sure he'll listen.

Are you bipolar? (Mild bipolar doesn't count ... as in most of the "example famous people" you mention.) The number of mildly bipolar people is quite high...If you're not bipolar yourself, or don't have a severely bipolar family member dependent on you, I doubt you can empathically identify the disorder. Yes, that's right, I doubt you ... even you're probably a therapist or a psychologist/psychiatrist.

no, i'm not bipolar. for that matter, i'm not schizophrenic or agoraphobic, and i'm not a survivor of incest or a host of other experiences that can contribute to emotional disturbance. yet that hasn't prevented me from correctly diagnosing, and in many cases, successfully treating people who are/have, with empathy.

SSRIs are like candy. Prozac is the most prescribed drug in the world (above any painkiller.)

prozac and other ssri's are antidepressants. although they are often (but not always) used in treating bipolar disorder, they are prescribed in conjunction with a mood stabilizer. again, complaining about the excessive use of a medication has no place in our disagreement. by the way are you a scientologist? that might explain your ranting.

harrell took the drug stelazine for many years after his first psychotic break around the age of 18 (a very common experience for those who later become schizophrenic). then he switched to zyprexa. several years ago, he started taking seroquel. these are all antipsychotic medications, the first line of defense in treating the main symptoms of schizophrenia. it would not surprise me to learn that he also takes an antidepressant, as many people with a severe, chronic mental illness develop depressive features. i have seen no evidence that he takes a mood stabilizer, which would indicate that he experiences labile mood states (the hallmark of bipolar disorder). btw, someone with severe mania might sometimes be prescribed an antipsychotic agent in conjunction with a mood stabilizer, but never alone.

I've seen Harrell quite a number of times over 25 years ... he is definitely severely bipolar. He can tilt from harmonious calm into massive depression in seconds. What it feels like is wave after massive wave of intense sadness physically slamming against your body. It can literally drop you to the floor. You have to get away , anywhere , immediately.

congratulations! you must be quite proud of the fact that you can properly diagnosis a complex, chronic mental illness by simply watching someone on stage. i guess i'm a dolt. i had to go to college, graduate school, and spent 20 years in the field to achieve the same level of success as you.

all sarcasm aside, i have no doubt you feel a great amount of care and respect for tom harrell. that's obvious by the passionate language you use in your argument. perhaps you felt my correction was a personal attack against him, or even against yourself. if that's so, i'm sorry. that was not my intention. however, your insistence that "most people with this condition accomplish nothing with their lives" is more disrespectful than anything i might have said.

finally, if you still feel you're right and i'm wrong on this subject, why don't you do a google search. harrell's schizophrenia is well-documented. if you do a similar search using the key words "tom harrell" and "bipolar," i believe you will get nothing that supports your claim.

[fasstrack]

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. So involved in defending your positions (not that I disagree with either of you) you wouldn't take a breath or a second to even look at the pearls I (Mr. Humility ) doled out. Please scroll up and see if anything I said makes sense to either of you (or anyone else here). I really am interested to know.

And don't fight boys, play nice. We're all in this thing together, aren't we? Let's leave the sandbox. The adult world can be just as much fun when you take a step back and listen to each other before react and defend, react and defend kicks in.

Just my 2 cents.

[sheldonm]

.............last time I'll post any pictures of Tom Harrell!

[fasstrack]

.............last time I'll post any pictures of Tom Harrell!

And last time I'll try to separate two 'grownups' who wanna keep fighting.......

Guess I forgot that people will do what they do and you can't stop 'em.

Hey, Jazzshrink: is that forgetfulness a diagnosable illness?

But just to put the coda on before the song ends: Lighten up guys. Life is short, music beautiful

[Guest]

Lighten up guys. Life is short, music beautiful

Tom Harrell's music is definitely beautiful.

[Free For All]

A brief story regarding Tom Harrell.....

In 1996 they were organizing a concert at Carnegie Hall to honor what would have been Woody's 6oth anniversary (having taken over the band in 1936). When bari saxist and band manager Mike Brignola told me that Tom Harrell would be one of the guest soloists I asked him what Tom was going to play on. Mike said "Not sure- we'll probably plug him into one of our tunes". I saw a golden opportunity and volunteered to arrange one of Tom' tunes for the band- I picked "Sail Away" because besides being a great MF tune it seemed right for the sound of Woody's band. I transribed Harrell's solo off of his recording and turned it into a sax soli (with Flugel lead, one of the trademark sounds of the band). I put that in another trumpet part- all Tom had to do was play the head and blow a chorus. Tom was very gracious about the chart and recognized his transcribed solo. It was a great experience meeting him (although he was pretty quiet ) and I'm glad I was able to tell him how much I loved his music.

....and of course playing in Carnegie Hall was pretty cool too.....

[sheldonm]

A brief story regarding Tom Harrell.....

In 1996 they were organizing a concert at Carnegie Hall to honor what would have been Woody's 6oth anniversary (having taken over the band in 1936). When bari saxist and band manager Mike Brignola told me that Tom Harrell would be one of the guest soloists I asked him what Tom was going to play on. Mike said "Not sure- we'll probably plug him into one of our tunes". I saw a golden opportunity and volunteered to arrange one of Tom' tunes for the band- I picked "Sail Away" because besides being a great MF tune it seemed right for the sound of Woody's band. I transribed Harrell's solo off of his recording and turned it into a sax soli (with Flugel lead, one of the trademark sounds of the band). I put that in another trumpet part- all Tom had to do was play the head and blow a chorus. Tom was very gracious about the chart and recognized his transcribed solo. It was a great experience meeting him (although he was pretty quiet ) and I'm glad I was able to tell him how much I loved his music.

....and of course playing in Carnegie Hall was pretty cool too.....

....nice story, thanks for sharing~

[fasstrack]

i usually refrain from commenting on things psychiatric on the board because everyone has their own opinion, and my clinical expertise is not what's usually needed. however, your statements are so blatantly wrong and offensive to individuals who are dealing with major mental illness, that i felt the need/right to respond. this will be my last post on the subject, so here it goes:

simplify? narrow categorization? i don't see how clarifying an incorrect diagnosis does that. your label of biploar disorder is no broader or more complex. and an attack on the field of psychology and psychiatry is just a play to the crowd. why don't you tell it to tom crusie. i'm sure he'll listen.

no, i'm not bipolar. for that matter, i'm not schizophrenic or agoraphobic, and i'm not a survivor of incest or a host of other experiences that can contribute to emotional disturbance. yet that hasn't prevented me from correctly diagnosing, and in many cases, successfully treating people who are/have, with empathy.

harrell took the drug stelazine for many years after his first psychotic break around the age of 18 (a very common experience for those who later become schizophrenic). then he switched to zyprexa. several years ago, he started taking seroquel. these are all antipsychotic medications, the first line of defense in treating the main symptoms of schizophrenia. it would not surprise me to learn that he also takes an antidepressant, as many people with a severe, chronic mental illness develop depressive features. i have seen no evidence that he takes a mood stabilizer, which would indicate that he experiences labile mood states (the hallmark of bipolar disorder). btw, someone with severe mania might sometimes be prescribed an antipsychotic agent in conjunction with a mood stabilizer, but never alone.

congratulations! you must be quite proud of the fact that you can properly diagnosis a complex, chronic mental illness by simply watching someone on stage. i guess i'm a dolt. i had to go to college, graduate school, and spent 20 years in the field to achieve the same level of success as you.

Sorry. You're wrong.

You've probably done some good work: some people require the drugs you prescribe to survive to avoid becoming physically violent, homeless, suicidal.

Others ... you do them far more damage than good. And there's a rapidly growing community of therapists who are fighting against you and your fast-food drug solutions.

How do I know better than you ? Because I am moderately bipolar. And I readily identify empathically , intuitively , with those who also are. You are not (as you stated). You are merely an empirical observer.

Yeah, I went to college for a zillion years too. Doesn't help me in my job. Working for 20 years doesn't even help me with my job. I start with a blank piece of paper every day.

Eliminating pharmaceuticals prescribed in 15 mins from over-busy couch docs was the smartest thing I ever did. Because then I could fight the real battle, not some blurred artificial dumbing-down of reality twisting my mind off in other damaging directions.

You believe what you want. You keep on believing who you are , what you are , and your indisputable importance to society. I, and others, will ignore you and your money-fest bullshit.

I say Harrell's music helped him a million times more than any drug ever will.

Ever hear of "live and let live"? Give it up. The guy strikes me as sincere and a professional as you are. He doesn't come off as a pill-pusher to me---and i'm cynical as they come about doctors that write scrips to get you out of their faces.

Anyway IMO it's not for you, me, or anyone to decice for anyone how to cope with their problems. People will work out their problems in their own ways. The weak feel they need drugs (there are all kinds of drugs, not just pharmecueticals anyway) and the drug companies are profiteers. But, again, judge not your brother til you've walked a mile in his/her moccasins. Even then it's a waste of energy, almost as big a waste as giving advice, as people will do or hear what they want when they want to.

[randissimo]

Mark, I don't believe you mention in this thread who the sidemen were? The reason I ask is because last I knew, Quincy Davis, a GR native was playing drums with TH..

[sheldonm]

Mark, I don't believe you mention in this thread who the sidemen were? The reason I ask is because last I knew, Quincy Davis, a GR native was playing drums with TH..

Randy,

It was Wayne Escovery on tenor, Danny Grissett on piano, Ugonna Okegwo on bass and Johnathan Blake on drums.

m~

[fasstrack]

You guys missed Tom in great form this week w/Charles MacPherson, himself always a treat to hear. At Dizzy's in Lincoln Center. I went Wednesday and it was burnin', the whole thing: Tom playing his ass off and were his chops UP! Jimmy Cobb driving the band hard (and soloing and trading like a MF into his 70s) along with Ray Drummond and Ronnie Mathews.

Bebop lives!

It was billed as the music as Diz and Bird, and I guess in show biz you need a hook, but this band lived up to it and then some. A few originals were interspersed, like Tom's Sail Away, and one of Charles' tunes.

I just ran into Joe Magnarelli, a trumpet player on the NY scene, tonight. I had emailed him Wed. when I got back and told him to get his ass down there forthwith. He said he went thursday and felt exactly the same as I did. They were doin' it. Finger poppin'!

Edited April 17, 2006 by fasstrack

[Alon Marcus]

A brief story regarding Tom Harrell.....

In 1996 they were organizing a concert at Carnegie Hall to honor what would have been Woody's 6oth anniversary (having taken over the band in 1936). When bari saxist and band manager Mike Brignola told me that Tom Harrell would be one of the guest soloists I asked him what Tom was going to play on. Mike said "Not sure- we'll probably plug him into one of our tunes". I saw a golden opportunity and volunteered to arrange one of Tom' tunes for the band- I picked "Sail Away" because besides being a great MF tune it seemed right for the sound of Woody's band. I transribed Harrell's solo off of his recording and turned it into a sax soli (with Flugel lead, one of the trademark sounds of the band). I put that in another trumpet part- all Tom had to do was play the head and blow a chorus. Tom was very gracious about the chart and recognized his transcribed solo. It was a great experience meeting him (although he was pretty quiet ) and I'm glad I was able to tell him how much I loved his music.

....and of course playing in Carnegie Hall was pretty cool too.....

Nice story and very interesting

[chris olivarez]

Hopefully everything is ok for Harrell or at least as ok as they can be for him. He's a great player.