EKE BBB Posted January 26, 2009 Report Posted January 26, 2009 Part 2: Catman Member # 0 posted June 13, 2001 11:37 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Isn't there also a recording of Pee Wee and Oliver Nelson Big Band on Impusle too? I might have at home, haven't played lp in a long while. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JSngry Member Member # 1611 posted June 13, 2001 11:43 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon- I am not nearly as into the "Chicago" style as you are (I do enjoy it very much, I just don't actively collect it), but, along w/Bud Freeman, Pee Wee Russell is an artist who in my mind transcends all "genres" and just plays great MUSIC. His concept of tone alone is heavy. In an era where tonal manipulation was commonplace, he managed to push the envelope and be controversial - not an easy task in the days of growls, half-valving, loooong glisses and slurs, etc. His concept of time was similar. He knew where the beat was, so he felt totally comfortable playing AROUND it, rather than ON it. Another thing I really like about him is that his voice continued to grow with time. His earlier work doesn't sound THAT radical to today's ear, but by the time you get to the 50s-60s, you hear some things that STILL make you say "WHOA!!!". To me, that reflects a real feeling of being alive, and being "in the moment". I love it when that happens. Does anybody consider Pee Wee an "Avante Garde" player, keeping in mind that the phrase has no musical meaning per se? I think that all great artists are "avante garde" in the true sense, and Pee Wee fits that category as far as I'm concerned. Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted June 13, 2001 12:09 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Catman, yes there is, Spirit of '67. Jim, I think of him as an avant garde player, yes. And I think that you should listen to more of his early work because to me it DOES have stuff that makes you go "WHOA" and that have the magic moments you speak of. Last night I played a few tracks that he recorded seventy years ago or so with Louis Prima. He was not an ordinary clarinetist then, his work was different and exploratory and wild then as well. In the liner notes Louis Prima is quoted as saying that Pee Wee was the most amazing musical mind he had ever encountered. The group would run through a number once, and Pee Wee had it down and began messing around with his part. Eddie Condon says that he was incapable of playing the same piece identically; there is a very funny bit in "We Called it Music" along those lines. I wish more of his music were available on cd, and I am going to busily seek out more this year and next. By the way, I may have mentioned this before but there is a very nice Arbors recording by Bobby Gordon called "Pee Wee's Blues: The Music of Pee Wee Russell." Nice modern look at the ideas and sound and relaxed feel of the Pee Wee work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted June 13, 2001 12:12 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, in an excellent Teagarden video, and in the liner notes to the Commodore Mosaics, mention is made of a band even before the Prima recordings with Pee Wee that Peck Kelly led with both Pee Wee and Jack Teagarden. HOW I WISH THAT ONE HAD BEEN RECORDED! I wish that the only Peck Kelly recordings we had weren't those from late late in his fabled career. That guy was a great player! Catman Member # 0 posted June 14, 2001 09:21 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dig this! I went home last night and looked through my vinyl (haven't played some of collection in a long while). I checked under "Russell" and found I do have the lp of "Spirit of '67"!! (Actually has a replication of a Russell Abstract Painting (!) on the cover!! Additionally, I found I own: 1) "Ask me Now" (w/ Marshall Brown on Valve bone and BASS trumpet!!) 2) "The College Concert of Pee Wee Russell And Henry Red Allen" (Impulse A-9137). Dig the band line-up: in addition to the 2 leaders- Steve Kuhn on Piano! Marty Morell on Drums! CHARLIE HADEN (!!!) Bass! I can remember the days (not so long ago) when lps like these were COMMON on the used & cutout bins!! I need to do some serious listenting to my vinyl!! Too much technology (cds, etc.) makes me lazy!!! Like the RCA Rollins/Hawkins w/ Bley, I really appreciate the "old cats" who look forward but with repect to tradition of the past. It usually makes for some damn interesting music!!!! Make ME president of Verve/Impulse and I'd promise to make all ye jazz lovers happy happy happy!!! AYEEE! Dream on! (Chant the Mantra...reissue reissue reissue Gabor Szabo on Impulse...reissue reissue Tom Scott Rural Still Life...reissue reissue reissue Gary McFarland reissue reissue reissue!!!!!.............YOU fill in the next title!!) later... -Catman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted June 14, 2001 10:28 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great discovery Catman! I know you will dig the Ask Me Now and the Spirit of '67---have never heard the Concert lp. I am all for YOU being president of Verve! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- montg Member Member # 1745 posted June 14, 2001 11:17 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I see that Ask Me Now and Spirit of '67 are both out on Impulse japan. Does anyone have any recommendations for one over the other? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Catman Member # 0 posted June 14, 2001 12:12 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- montg- If I recall correctly - "Ask Me Now" is a unique combo sound (haven't cue'd up in a while - but what the hey - maybe tonight!!)-clarinet/bass trumpet and all - but I do remember it really swings! They do the Monk title track - perhaps Hackensack too. "Spirit of 67" was with the Oliver Nelson BIG BAND, I think - again - have been very busy & don't remember. But then again - Nelson's big bands of the time COOKED! Have any of you ever listened to Oliver Nelson's Big Bad Band LIVE IN LA??? (on Impulse) WOW! If you like Pee Wee, Nelson, etc., & can afford = GET BOTH. Otherwise, I guess use your own preferences to guide you. Hope this helps. montg Member Member # 1745 posted June 14, 2001 12:34 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the information. I really like Oliver Nelson's arrangements for Jimmy Smith (and others as well), so Spirit of '67 sounds like the way to go for starters. thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harold_Z Member Member # 1142 posted June 15, 2001 04:53 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't have any of that Impulse material. I'm glad it is reappearing. PeeWee and alternate takes are a blast. The Commodore material espescially yields a wealth of radically different solos from most of the players involved and espescially PeeWee. I wish GRP would bring these all out in a session by session format. I guess the original GRP releases didn't sell enough- the seemed to have stopped. To bad - to my ears these were the best sounding issues since Commodore was an independant. Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted June 15, 2001 05:31 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harold, I share your love of the Commodore sides and your wish for MORE. I am not sure that sales are an issue in the slow disolvement of this cd reissue series, as much as the general merger of the labels into the Verve Music Group or whatever, and their general constipated condition when it comes to jazz releases. I wish they would license this off to someone else interested. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Birdistheword Member Member # 31 posted June 15, 2001 09:02 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anything connected with the huge Verve conglomerate seems to fall into a black hole. It's really sad how many great labels and recordings they control and ignore in their sorry reissue program. Decca, Commodore, Verve, Emarcy, Mercury, Keynote, Chess, Argo, Universal, the list of labels they control and do nothing with is endless. Things are being deleted at an alarming rate (much like RCA jazz reissues) and nothing filling the vacuum. I would love to see any kind of comprehensive Commodore reissue program - these CDs have excellent sound and it's sad how few there are compared to the amount of material Commodore released. I could even deal with Keepnews nonsensical programming if these kept coming out at regular intervals. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harold_Z Member Member # 1142 posted June 15, 2001 09:20 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, but they went for the bread with a second (masters only) Billie Holiday issue. great stuff, but out already. As you guys said, there is so much more good stuff unissued, including some GREAT stuff under George Brunis' name with mostly Wild Bill Davison, and some Max Kaminsky. All the Muggsy Spanier hasn't been touched. The Bobby Hackett. Arghh! Bud Freeman. I believe preiviously Milt Gabler always kept ownership and made leasing deals with other labels. Does anyone know if the ownership of Commodore masters is not in Milt's hands anymore? [This message has been edited by Harold_Z (edited June 15, 2001).] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Birdistheword Member Member # 31 posted June 15, 2001 09:26 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think in the Commodore 2CD 'best of' set from a few years ago the booklet says that after the Mosaic release (that would have made a great CD series!!!) Gabler sold lock stock and barrel of Commodore to MCA/GRP. Rather bad move in hindsight. Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted June 16, 2001 06:42 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are about 45 cds worth, loaded cds worth, of Commodore material. What a shame that only about ten have made it to cd since MCA began their series! (More items were available form CBS special products, etc. that didn't sound as good. . .. ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PD Member Member # 1816 posted June 16, 2001 07:31 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For the Pee Wee followers, don't think its been mentioned but there is a nice combination of the PeeWee/ Buck Clayton swingville Album with a counterpoint album( w Braaf/Freeman/Dickenson etc) on Prestige titled Swingin' with Pee Wee, came out early last year. Also didn't Pee Wee play a set with Monk at Newport, which I thought was out on a record somewhere, but my limited discographies don't show it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted June 16, 2001 08:38 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This appearance with Monk was part of a two cd set that Columbia put out some eight years or so ago. . . it had the Newport '58 appearance of the Miles Davis Sextet on one disc, and the Newport '63 appearance of the Monk Quartet with Pee Wee sittin' in on the other. I think this may now be out of print? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- alankin Member Member # 220 posted June 16, 2001 03:02 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This August 14th reissue might make some of you happy: Pee Wee Russell - New Groove (Collectables/Columbia) - 1962 Alan jazzmatazz.home.att.net philip Member Member # 405 posted June 17, 2001 10:02 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hurrah! Only some of us? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Member Member # 118 posted June 19, 2001 12:34 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The specs on NEW GROOVE. Recorded 1962 The Pee Wee Russell Quartet: Pee Wee Russell, clarinet Marshall Brown, trombone Russell George, bass Ron Lundberg, drums 1) My Mother's Eyes 2) Chelsea Bridge 3) Red Planet 4) Pee Wee's Blues 5) Moten Swing 6) 'Round Midnight 7) Good Bait 8) Old Folks 9) Taps Miller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 28, 2002 04:22 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thought I would bring up this thread. . . another Pee Wee Russell thread! - Quote
EKE BBB Posted January 26, 2009 Report Posted January 26, 2009 Part 3: Author Topic: Pee Wee Russell Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 26, 2002 02:28 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know that somewhere there is another thread with Pee Wee Russell's name on it. . . . But I'm listening to an album called "Hot Licorice". . . It's not the greatest Pee Wee record. . . it's not even in the top ten. . .but he's blowing and capturing my attention and making me think of how many times he's had me riveted in the listening seat. From time to time I forget and then out of the blue here comes the Iron Man of Swing and he reminds me . . . . I guess you can tell I am a big fan! youmustbe Member Member # 2889 posted August 26, 2002 03:19 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was talking to DJ Disc, one of the "name" DJs from the West Coast, and he told me he practices scrathing by watching Pee Wee playing on the video with Red Allen, Bean etc.. Says Pee Wee is "The ****!". The Masters live on sometimes in strange and unexpected ways. Maybe my memory is off, but I seem to remember Pee Wee walking his daschund in the Village, too many years ago. Harold_Z Member Member # 1142 posted August 26, 2002 04:14 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Lon Armstrong: .... I'm listening to an album called "Hot Licorice". . . It's not the greatest Pee Wee record. . . it's not even in the top ten. . .but he's blowing and capturing my attention and making me think of how many times he's had me riveted in the listening seat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah...Pee Wee is one of the few people who are ALWAYS interesting. He just HAD IT...the ability to grab your attention and not let go. I think one reason is he's playing for his own amazement. I can't think of ONE Pee Wee performance that didn't grab my attention. As Lon said, this isn't the greatest Pee Wee record, but Pee Wee is playing the same as if it were. The bandmates here aren't the all star aggregations we usually find Pee Wee with, but Pee Wee is the same Pee Wee. Porky Cohen is an unexpected pleasant surprise in this context ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Friedman Member Member # 2896 posted August 26, 2002 04:50 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon, It's quite a coincidence that you were listening to a Pee Wee Russell recording today as I did as well. This morning I played a fairly recent CD I purchased called: Pee Wee Russell With Alex Welsh & His Band - Lake 157 Interesting that Pee Wee recorded with Alex Welsh as Welsh previously had a wonderful clarinet player in his group who was very much influenced by Pee Wee. I am speaking of the late Archie Semple. PD Member Member # 1816 posted August 26, 2002 09:38 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Peter Friedman: Lon, Pee Wee Russell With Alex Welsh & His Band - Lake 157 Interesting that Pee Wee recorded with Alex Welsh as Welsh previously had a wonderful clarinet player in his group who was very much influenced by Pee Wee. I am speaking of the late Archie Semple. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Welsh band seemed to be the obvious choice for supporting Condon / Chicago style visitors to Britain, as they based their premise on that type of music. There are good recordings with the likes of Wild Bill, and Eddie Miller. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- berigan Member Member # 2931 posted August 27, 2002 02:05 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes Lon, Pee Wee was great! When I first read about him, in books and liner notes, and it almost seemed like writers didn't quite know what to make of him, nor did they want to go overboard in praising him! Calling his playing "cranky" .But the more I heard him, the more I realized he played like no one else ever has, yet still managed to swing, when by all rights you would say he shouldn't have! Love his playing on the "hot" version of The Eel, with Bud Freeman, and his solos with the Rhythmmakers (Which I think PD has mentioned as of late) and with Red Nichols, were always interesting to say the least....not many people have tried to imitate him, that’s for sure! [ August 27, 2002: Message edited by: berigan ] -------------------- "We reject the idea of private property." Peter Berle, former president, National Audubon Society. Board member, Sierra Club. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." - Winston Churchill Harold_Z Member Member # 1142 posted August 27, 2002 03:40 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re Pee Wee with The Rhythmmakers: On a couple of tunes he plays tenor....and sounds amazingly like R & B honkers of 20 years later. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 27, 2002 04:33 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a biography it is claimed that Pee Wee was carrying on the compositional and structural logic of Bix Beiderbecke. . . . Definitely the sound Pee Wee gets is different (and was different before he ran into Bix) but I think I can hear what is meant though in the structure and logic of some of his soloing. I think that Pee Wee was a wonderful composer, and here too I can imagine a Beiderbecke influence. If it weren't within the Vivendi holdings I would hope that his "Pee Wee Russell Plays Pee Wee Russell" lp would be reissued; this is wonderful material that is played with that relaxed feeling that Pee Wee can bring as a leader by a great group of musicians. I think that Pee Wee was really radical at times in the thirties and forties, much more radical than he later seemed when playing modern material with Marshall Brown, for instance. In fact he is quoted as saying that he didn't choose the route that was taken in the quartet with Brown, that this was Brown's direction, and very arranged and rehearsed. . . . But when he's on the Ritz or Town Hall stage, or in the Commodore Record shop recording room. . . or many other instances. . .seemingly flying by the seat of his pants over a mountain ridge and his compass is out and fog is rolling in. . .man it's exciting to hear him navigate and land! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harold_Z Member Member # 1142 posted August 27, 2002 04:36 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I read somewhere something to the effect that when soloing "...Pee Wee struggled mightily...and prevailed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JSngry Member Member # 1611 posted August 27, 2002 05:16 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A face only a mother could love, but would never accept responsibility for. shrugs Member Member # 356 posted August 27, 2002 05:20 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- love the Giants of Jazz set. great bang for the buck. I was just reading something about the College concert on Impulse. I guess Charlie Haden considers that some of his best playing on record and apparently Rusell called him "a real stomping bass player". on a side note, Ken Vandermark's composition "Stumble" is dedicated to Pee Wee. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jgthomas Junior Member Member # 3394 posted August 27, 2002 06:04 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The video/film Portrait of Pee Wee Russell is very worth seeing, especially for the painting he used to do. On Rhapsody Films. He is a great favorite of mine too. Paul Secor Member Member # 3319 posted August 27, 2002 06:53 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon, Thanks for this thread. I listened to the DCC reissue of Portrait of Pee Wee last night. Hadn't listened to it in at least a couple of years - great Pee Wee! Great everyone, for that matter. The cover actually has a wonderful portrait of Pee Wee on it. Does Anyone know who painted it? The signature looks like possibly Mullen, but it's not clear and the record jacket gives no credit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 27, 2002 06:56 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That is a nice painting, and no I don't know who painted that! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 27, 2002 07:05 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone who is a Pee Wee fan should check out "Pee Wee's Blues" by Bobby Gordon on Arbors. Really captures that sound and feel and the special magic of Pee Wee's compositions well. Stephen G. Junior Member Member # 3508 posted August 27, 2002 02:43 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sadly, a jazz listener survey would likely indicate that Pee Wee Russell is known only to hardcore jazz lovers. Yet his absolute originality, lyricism, quirkiness, risk-taking, incredibly brilliant ensemble playing, and consistent swing put him, I believe, among the gods of the genre. I hear Frank Teschemacher in Pee Wee's playing, especially his earlier work, though Russell, while an admirer of Teschemacher, I believe denied a direct influence. Teschemacher was perhaps the real style setter at this time. Jimmy Dorsey and Benny Goodman, while great, didn't have the readily identifiable "sound" of Teschemacher or Russell. What do the rest of you think? Here is a playlist of Russell records I presented last fall for a jazz listening club that I host. (Note: A couple of the selections do not feature Russell, but serve as introductionary material.) "Jazz Giant: Pee Wee Russell" 1. The Louisiana Five: “Church Sobbin Blues” 2. Original Dixieland Jass Band: “Barnyard Blues” 3. Red Nichols and His Five Pennies "Ida! Sweet As Apple Cider" 4.Red Nichols and His Five Pennies: “Riverboat Shuffle” 5.Miff Mole and His Molers: “Feelin’ No Pain” 6.The Five Pennies: “Feelin No Pain” 7.Red and Miff’s Stompers:“Feelin’ No Pain” (exc.) 8.The Charleston Chasers: “Feelin’ No Pain” (exc.) 9.Miff Mole and His Molers:“Original Dixieland One-Step” 10.Miff Mole and His Molers:“Shim-Me-Sha-Wabble” 11.Red Nichols and His Five Pennies: “Corrinne Corrina” 12.Red Nichols and His Five Pennies: “Eccentric” 13.Frank Trumbauer and His Orchestra: “Cryin’ All Day” 14.Frank Trumbauer and His Orchestra: “Since My Best Gal Turned Me Down” 15.Eddie Condon & His Orchestra “The Eel” 16.Eddie Condon & His Windy City Seven: “Love Is Just Around the Corner” 17. Eddie Condon & His Windy City Seven:“Embraceable You” 18.Jam Session at Commodore, No. Three “A Good Man Is Hard to Find” 19. Jam Session at Commodore, No. Three “A Good Man Is Hard to Find” (II) 20. Jam Session at Commodore, No. Three “A Good Man Is Hard to Find” (III) 21.Eddie Condon and His Band: “Oh, Sister! Ain’t That Hot?” 22. Eddie Condon and His Band: “(You’re Some) Pretty Doll” 23. Eddie Condon and His Band: “Back in Your Own Backyard” 24.Pee Wee Russell’s Hot Four: “D.A. Blues” (alt. take) 25. Billy Banks & His Orchestra: “Bugle Call Rag” (Take One) 26. The Rhythmakers: “Oh! Peter!” (Take Three) 27. The Rhythmakers: “Margie” 28. The Rhythmakers: “I Would Do Anything for You” (2nd) 29. The Rhythmakers: “Who’s Sorry Now?” 30. Mound City Blue Blowers: “Hello Lola” 31. Mound City Blue Blowers: "If I Could Be With You One Hour Tonight” 32. Eddie Condon Group: “That’s a Plenty” 33. Muggsy Spanier Group: "My Honey’s Lovin’ Arms” 34. Teddy Wilson & His Orchestra: “With a Smile and a Song” 35. Vic Berton & His Orchestra: “Blue” 36. Louis Prima & His Orchestra: “Cross Patch” 37. Bud Freeman & His Gang: “Tappin’ the Commodore Till” 38. Bud Freeman & His Gang: “Memories of You” 39. Bud Freeman & His Gang: “Life Spears a Jitterbug” 40. Wild Bill Davison Group: “I Want a Little Girl” 41. With Ruby Braaf: “It All Depends on You” 42. With Ruby Braaf: “Pee Wee’s Song” 43. With Ruby Braaf: “Pee Wee Blues” 44. With Buck Clayton and Tommy Flanagan: “What Can I Say, Dear After I Say I’m Sorry” 45. With Buck Clayton and Tommy Flanagan: “Englewood” 46. With Marshall Brown: “Red Planet” 47. With Buck Clayton and Tommy Flanagan: “I’ve Got That Old Feeling” 48. With Red Allen (“The Sound of Jazz TV Broadcast”): “Rosetta” If anyone would like the complete notes for this session (I might even negotiate terms for providing a copy of the 2 CDs), contact me privately. Steve G."Jazz Giant: Pee Wee Russell" khford Member Member # 1955 posted August 27, 2002 03:10 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is everyone's opinion on Russell's 'New Groove' record (recently reissued by Collectables)? I like it - ALOT, actually. But, it has a more modern sensibility. To my ears, that approach doesn't seem forced. At the time, I'm betting it hit some long-time Pee Wee fans like a cold bucket of Schlitz in the face. The cover - with Pee Wee and band in/around a vintage Ferrari - makes me smile every time I look at it. Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 27, 2002 03:41 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I confess I have not yet heard the "New Groove." Partly because I just want to have something yet to get for that day when I just have to have new Pee Wee to hear. (For much the same reason it took me years to acquire the Lester Young volumes on Pablo with the Bill Potts Trio.) And partly because I have the Impulse with Brown. . .and don't play it that much. I figure it is not really the same vibe from the one lp to another. . .or? I'll just have to get it soon! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 27, 2002 03:42 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I imagine it did take a lot of contemporary Pee Wee fans by surprise though! Quote
EKE BBB Posted January 26, 2009 Report Posted January 26, 2009 And finally Part 4/4: Peter Friedman Member Member # 2896 posted August 27, 2002 03:44 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I strongly recommend that all you Pee Wee fans read his biography. PEE WEE RUSSELL - THE LIFE OF A JAZZMAN - by Robert Hilbert Oxford Press It's a most interesting and entertaining book. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 27, 2002 03:46 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can definitely hear an affinity sound wise between Tesch and Pee Wee. I am not sure if I could say that Tesch was the standard, the trendsetter of the time. . . I think ultimately Noone and Dodds for example had more of a dispersed influence. . . but I could be wrong. Sometimes I hear some of Pee Wee's ferocity in a particular way in Ed Hall's playing. . . and Hall was a later player who was a Noone/Goodman type. It's hard to say where Pee Wee got his particular style. . .whether he was influenced by Tesch. . . I think there is a chance his style was pretty formed before Tesch became a possibility, but I may not have the chronology right. What I wish is that we could have had a few hundred recordings of the bands that Peck Kelly led in the twenties and thirties that included at times both Tea and Pee Wee! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harold_Z Member Member # 1142 posted August 27, 2002 04:01 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think we have to add Omer Simeon into the mix too. Not so much in terms of *sound*, but in terms of licks. There's a couple of licks they had in common. The missing guy in the equation for me is Alcide "Yellow" Nunez..I think Pee Wee is quoted in the Hilliard book as naming him as an influence...or at least having heard him very early on. I just haven't heard enough by him to really form an opinion. Has there ever been a vinyl or cd release of Louisiana 5 material? I'd love to hear more of that stuff ! All I've heard is a cassette of one 78. BTW,I haven't heard New Groove either...I think it's time! Peter Friedman Member Member # 2896 posted August 27, 2002 04:36 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In my opinion Pee Wee is not at his best when playing with more modern musicians. I have the recordings with Marshall Brown on both Impulse and Columbia/Collectables. I also have his recording with Monk at Newport, and with Jimmy Giuffre on The Sound Of Jazz. They are all interesting and worth hearing. However, Pee Wee at his best is when he plays with musicians of his own era such as Muggsy Spanier, Eddie Condon, Bud Freeman, Red Allen, Bobby Hackett, Coleman Hawkins, etc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shrugs Member Member # 356 posted August 27, 2002 05:36 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pee Wee smokes on that date with Giuffre. you're maddddddddd!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stephen G. Junior Member Member # 3508 posted August 27, 2002 06:24 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Lon, yes, you are no doubt correct, and it's rather arch of me to suggest that Teschemacher was a trendsetter. It's just that the ferocity of attack between Teschemacher and Russell is so similar. While there is, of course, no disputing the dominating styles of Dodds and Noone, both of whom had the hegemony on the Chicago scene, I frankly don't hear a strong N.O. influence in Russell, despite the fact that he played what is roughly labeled New Orleans style jazz. This is, in fact, kind of puzzling. Russell is a true original in my book. As for Gilbert's bio of Russell, I agree wholeheartedly with Peter Friedman--it's a wonderful read, chockfull of useful information. Yes, it is possible that Pee Wee influenced Teschemacher, not the other way round! In either case, I do not hear a strong N.O. influence in Russell (including Simeon), though I'm sure I could be persuaded otherwise with compared licks/passages. As for Pee Wee's feeling at ease, or not, with more modern jazzmen, Pee Wee seems to float independent of styles and schools, paradoxically, since his mis en scene was 99% "Dixieland" (I usually avoid that term!). The Newport appearance with Monk doesn't really tell us much of anything. It is a negligible solo, in my opinion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- berigan Member Member # 2931 posted August 28, 2002 02:19 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Stephen G.: ..... Teschemacher was perhaps the real style setter at this time. Jimmy Dorsey and Benny Goodman, while great, didn't have the readily identifiable "sound" of Teschemacher or Russell. What do the rest of you think?..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, Goodman had a more rough, less polished sound in the mid-late 20's(he first recorded in late 26, at the ripe old age of 17!)I wouldn't always recognize Benny's sound early on, but still distinctive IMO. Jimmy Dorsey could play the blues, or the sweetest solo on clarinet, depending on who he was recording with in the 20's...I thought he was better still on the Alto. I almost always recognize his playing, but then again, I know from the cd he was going to be playing! I think Jimmy Dodds might have been more of an influence on Pee Wee (Plus they both had their critics)but there might have been someone he heard who never recorded..... -------------------- "We reject the idea of private property." Peter Berle, former president, National Audubon Society. Board member, Sierra Club. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." - Winston Churchill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 28, 2002 03:27 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're right Stephen, there is an affinity between Tesch and Charles Ellsworth in the ferocity of attack they can muster. My best guess is that there was a model they both followed, but it could have been Tesch inspiring Pee Wee I suppose. Harold, I had been trying to remember Nunez's name; thanks for chiming in there. Pee Wee does smoke with Giuffre on The Sound of Jazz, and on another recorded encounter. . . but I tend to agree that he was best in the traditional arena and I think he was really at his best a decade or two before The Sound of Jazz. . . .! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- brownie Member Member # 2681 posted August 28, 2002 04:04 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since nobody mentioned one of PeeWee's greatest album Candid's 'Jazz Reunion' led by Coleman Hawkins, let me add it to the list. This is the one which got me hooked on him. PeeWee Russell and Coleman Hawkins always mixed well. And yes the Robert Hilbert book on Russell is one of the best jazz biographies around. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted August 28, 2002 04:14 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Reunion is a very good album. I still think that "Plays Pee Wee Russell" is probably the most important album. Too flippin' bad it is not out on cd! randyhersom Member Member # 2052 posted August 28, 2002 04:36 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think Jimmy Dodds might have been more of an influence on Pee Wee (Plus they both had their critics)but there might have been someone he heard who never recorded..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you sure you don't mean Johnny Noone? Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted September 23, 2002 11:37 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I finally have heard "New Groove." Very nice album. It DOES seem to me to be rehearsed a lot more than we are used to hearing the sessions that Pee Wee is in rehearsed. . . . But it's quite nice stuff! peter rh Member Member # 1963 posted September 26, 2002 09:47 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've been listening to a lot of Pee Wee recently,mainly on newly acquired vinyl but also some old favourites.I used to think that he was at his best when teamed with either cornet and/or trombone, but when you consider the quality of the musicians he played alongside,it's not surprising that his playing reached high standards.The line-ups that Pee Wee played with over the years reads like a Who's Who of Jazz!How anyone can choose between Henry Red,Wild Bill,Bobby Hackett and Ruby Braff let alone trombonists is beyond me.I'm glad to have them all. I'm not a great one for analysing music but it's fairly obvious that Pee Wee is one of the music's great individuals who shows few easily recognisable influences.I imagine that he was fully aware of the New Orleans styles but maybe he was influenced in a negative way by their styles.Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw were both very close in age to Pee Wee,and he may also have chosen to try to develop his style differently to them. The one influence I do hear in Pee Wee's playing that I don't see mentioned by anybody is Bud Freeman.I think it's probably more noticeable when not playing with Bud,Anyone else hear this or disagree? Lon Armstrong Member Member # 137 posted September 26, 2002 12:58 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gosh Peter. . . I'm playing back things in my head. . . you may have a point there! I'll have to do some research on that when I can! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harold_Z Member Member # 1142 posted September 26, 2002 04:15 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just to toss another iron into this fire....check out the 1935 Bud Freeman And His Windy City Five date...the one with Bunny Berigan. Bud plays some clarinet on this record date...and sounds like......who? [ September 26, 2002: Message edited by: Harold_Z ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- peter rh Member Member # 1963 posted September 27, 2002 05:42 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agreed Harold,similar thoughts here. I'm not suggesting that both Bud and Pee Wee didn't get something from Tesch.Maybe they got bits from each other.I suppose it would be unusual if they didn't influence each other, considering the amount of time spent together.It just strikes me that I can almost sense Bud when Pee Wee's playing and Bud is not there. How I miss peter rh! Quote
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