Earl Hines & Coleman Hawkins "rifftide" (Pumpkin Productio

[l p]

vhs
"Earl Hines & Coleman Hawkins 1965" (nyc tv studio with audience) Rhapsody Films, 30 minutes.
15 minutes of tunes with hawkins:
One More Chance, Crazy Rhythm, Rifftide.

vinyl lp:
Earl Hines & Coleman Hawkins "rifftide" (Pumpkin Productions 105)
Recorded New York City March 1965

A1 Crazy Rhythm 9:13 - this is an unedited version of the same performance as on the above vhs.
A2 Rosetta 9:05
B1 Just One More Chance 7:25 this is the same as on the above vhs.
B2 Rifftide 8:10 - this is an unedited version of the same performance as on the above vhs.
B3 Indian Summer 5:01

http://www.discogs.com/Coleman-Hawkins-With-Earl-Hines-Trio-Rifftide/release/4918808

it seems unusual to have an unedited audio version of an old tv recording.
tom lord is listed in the credits of the vinyl release. does his discography list Rosetta and Indian Summer as being from the same session as the other tunes on the vinyl?

thanks

[jazztrain]

Lord has it all from the same session.

This is what my rather old (up to 2004) version of Lord shows:

>>>

Just one more chance
[H3278-6] Coleman Hawkins
Rifftide: Coleman Hawkins with the Earl Hines Trio:
Coleman Hawkins (ts) Earl Hines (p) George Tucker (b) Oliver Jackson (d)
"Village Vanguard", New York, March 1965
Crazy rhythm Pumpkin 105
Rosetta -
Just one more chance -
Rifftide -
Indian summer -

>>>

[l p]

thanks.

lord doesn't note that the pumpkin vinyl is from the same session as the rhapsody vhs?

Edited December 16, 2014 by l p

[Hot Ptah]

I have that LP, on Pumpkin. I have not heard it for some time. I remember it as being pleasant, but not essential.

[jazztrain]

My version of Lord does not show the Rhapsody vhs at all. I pasted the session information he shows.

thanks.

lord doesn't note that the pumpkin vinyl is from the same session as the rhapsody vhs?

[jazztrain]

I checked Meeker's Jazz on Film database. It has the information pasted below for a 1965 made for television production with Earl Hines and Coleman Hawkins. If this is the material from which Rhapsody drew its release, then it's different from what Pumpkin issued. Note that Meeker lists one of the tunes as "One More Choice." This is almost certainly "One More Chance."

>>>

JAZZ: EARL HINES AND COLEMAN HAWKINS / Karl Genus [motion picture] Title JAZZ: EARL HINES AND COLEMAN HAWKINS [motion picture] Director Karl Genus Music Director and/or Conductor David Himmelstein Copyright Date 1965 Place of Publication/Creation USA Form motion picture Source Information from: "Jazz on the Screen" by David Meeker. Used with permission. Notes Made-for-TV programme or made-for-video/DVD release. Short film (under 30 minutes). Songs "But not for me" by Ira and George Gershwin; "I’m a little blackbird looking for a bluebird" by W. Grant Clarke, Roy Turk, George W. Meyer, Arthur Johnston; "Fine and dandy" by Paul James, Kay Swift; "One more choice"; "Crazy rhythm" by Irving Caesar, Joseph Meyer, Roger Wolfe Kahn. Personnel on Camera Earl Hines, piano, vocal; Coleman Hawkins, tenor sax; George Tucker, acoustic double bass; Oliver Jackson, drums.

Just noticed that Meeker's information does not include "Rifftide." If "Rifftide" is on the Rhapsody release, then maybe there's still some other source. Or perhaps the information on www.jazzdiscogs is wrong.

[l p]

Meeker's Jazz on Film database is referencing the same video as on rhapsody.

confirmation: https://books.google.com/books?id=8FwyY-6IveQC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=coleman+hawkins+and+earl+hines+1965+rhapsody+%22Fine+and+dandy%22&source=bl&ots=R1Ma4rTSEa&sig=umQsNfzqe3W3f2BapCsoFahHZAw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4neQVLSPEM-vyAS8oIKQDA&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=coleman%20hawkins%20and%20earl%20hines%201965%20rhapsody%20%22Fine%20and%20dandy%22&f=false

the middle of "Rifftide" is on the last 2 minutes of the video, during the credits.

i guess the video/pumpkin vinyl could be village vanguard rather than a tv studio,

but it is a different session from

Earl Hines Trio "Grand Reunion"
Recorded live at the Village Vanguard 1965.
http://www.discogs.com/Earl-Hines-Trio-Grand-Reunion/release/2812272

because the common tunes from grand reunion below do not match the versions on the pumpkin vinyl
Rosetta
Just One More Chance

>> If this is the material from which Rhapsody drew its release, then it's different from what Pumpkin issued.

>>>

it's not different, because pumpkin:

A1 Crazy Rhythm 9:13 - this is an unedited version of the same performance as on the above rhapsody vhs.
B1 Just One More Chance 7:25 this is the same as on the above rhapsody vhs.

Note that Meeker lists one of the tunes as "One More Choice." This is almost certainly "One More Chance."

>>>

yes, it is "Just One More Chance"

Edited December 16, 2014 by l p

[jazztrain]

OK. A bit more information.

Information available for the Rhapsody vhs indicates that it was directed by Karl Genus. This matches the information from Meeker.

The material on the Rhapsody vhs indicates that it consists of the following:

• Earl Hines Trio: But Not For Me
• Earl Hines Trio: I'm a Little Brown Bird Looking For a Blue Bird
• Earl Hines Trio + Coleman Hawkins: Just One More Chance
• Earl Hines Trio + Coleman Hawkins: Crazy Rhythm

So, either the Rhapsody vhs does not include "Rifftide" or perhaps the quartet plays it, without identification, at the end of the film. I think I may have a copy of the vhs somewhere, but it's not easily accessible at the moment. Perhaps someone else has it and can check.

Conclusions: The material on the Rhapsody vhs and the Pumpkin LP may be different. Your original post suggests that the Pumpkin material is from the Village Vanguard, while the description of the Rhapsody vhs material refers to a television studio.

Your first post states that the version of "Crazy Rhythm" on the Pumpkin LP is an unedited version of what's on the Rhapsody vhs. Is this your observation or something from jazzdiscogs.com?

l p: Our posts crossed. We seem to be reaching similar conclusions. The material on "The Grand Reunion" is different.

Meeker's Jazz on Film database is referencing the same video as on rhapsody.

confirmation: https://books.google.com/books?id=8FwyY-6IveQC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=coleman+hawkins+and+earl+hines+1965+rhapsody+%22Fine+and+dandy%22&source=bl&ots=R1Ma4rTSEa&sig=umQsNfzqe3W3f2BapCsoFahHZAw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4neQVLSPEM-vyAS8oIKQDA&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=coleman%20hawkins%20and%20earl%20hines%201965%20rhapsody%20%22Fine%20and%20dandy%22&f=false

the middle of "Rifftide" is on the last 2 minutes of the video, during the credits.

i guess the video/pumpkin vinyl could be village vanguard rather than a tv studio,

but it is a different session from

Earl Hines Trio "Grand Reunion"
Recorded live at the Village Vanguard 1965.
http://www.discogs.com/Earl-Hines-Trio-Grand-Reunion/release/2812272

because the common tunes from grand reunion below do not match the versions on the pumpkin vinyl
Rosetta
Just One More Chance

>> If this is the material from which Rhapsody drew its release, then it's different from what Pumpkin issued.

>>>

it's not different, because pumpkin:

A1 Crazy Rhythm 9:13 - this is an unedited version of the same performance as on the above rhapsody vhs.
B1 Just One More Chance 7:25 this is the same as on the above rhapsody vhs.

Note that Meeker lists one of the tunes as "One More Choice." This is almost certainly "One More Chance."

>>>

yes, it is "Just One More Chance"

[l p]

i can confirm from a/b comparison that

pumpkin vinyl A1 Crazy Rhythm 9:13 - this is an unedited version of the same performance as on the rhapsody vhs.

pumpkin vinyl B1 Just One More Chance 7:25 this is the same as on the rhapsody vhs.

as to whether it is a tv studio or village vanguard, i don't know but one of the two locations is probably correct.

i'm surprised that lord helped with the release of the pumpkin (according to the credits), but didn't make the connection of the audio with the vhs film.

and i assume that they are still 2 separate sessions in his discography.

[jazztrain]

l p: There are two different Tom Lords. The Tom Lord whose discography we've been talking about is one; there's another one who was responsible for the Clarence Williams book that Storyville published in the mid 1970s. It's not clear which one helped with the Pumpkin release.

My version of Lord does not show the Rhapsody release (or the film). Perhaps it shows up in a later edition.

[l p]

it seems that the rhapsody video was first issued in the mid 1980's.

[jazztrain]

Correct. I found some references that show 1986 as the issue date.

Here's a review from the New York Times (see below). It's pretty clear that this is from a studio, not from the Village Vanguard.

>>>

HOME VIDEO: MOVIES; A Pillar of the Piano

By JOHN S. WILSON
Published: May 3, 1987

JAZZ: EARL HINES AND COLEMAN HAWKINS Earl Hines, Coleman Hawkins, George Tucker, Oliver Jackson. Produced by Stephen Schmidt. Directed by Karl Genus. Rhapsody Films. 28 minutes. $29.95.

Filmed in an intimately lit studio setting, this 1965 session with two of the founding pillars of jazz is a superb display of the brilliance and individuality of Earl Hines (in photo) as a pianist and a somewhat saddening glimpse of Coleman Hawkins going into his decline (he died four years later). Fortunately the film is largely devoted to Hines, with George Tucker on bass and the elegant Oliver Jackson riding suavely on drums. Every time Hines's fingers touch the keys, rhythmic ideas in exquisite variations flow out - jauntily swaggering and bubbling with an effortless authority that only Hines seemed to possess.

Hawkins emerges from the studio shadows to play on two tunes - one slow, one fast. They would be satisfactory for a less distinguished saxophonist, but it is sad to hear this great artist moving weakly across the surface of his solos.

>>>

it seems that the rhapsody video was first issued in the mid 1980's.

[l p]

thanks for your help. that New York Times review is b.s., because hawkins was still playing well in 1965. he started looking frail in 1966.

i am still curious why lord's discography doesn't list this film. seems that he would have the info for it it by the time your 2004 version was completed.