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Joe

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  5. BFT 251: The Revealing Science of Golb

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted

    37 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

    Ah! Curtis Clark! Never had his FMP but have long been curious about it. Never seen a copy in person, strangely enough. I have a few of his records and saw him live once with the brothers González, excellent live experience.

    The only one of these I own is the Donald Smith, but I have not liberated it from overstuffed shelves in ages. 

    Been curious about Fred Tompkins' records too, but never picked one up. Now's the time to rectify that.

    Excellent BFT, very well done.

    Thanks! 

  6. BFT 251: The Revealing Science of Golb

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted · Edited by Joe

    Please excuse the Tales From Topographic Oceans - Adventure Time mashup. 

    All links below go to additional information available via Discogs. I've added some notes of my own as well.

    1. "Odile," Fred Tompkins
    2. "Recorda Me," Jason Marshall
    3. "Cool Struttin’," Bennie Green
    4. "Chito’s Song," Cochemea Gastelum
    5. "La Danse Des Ferrailleurs," Yochk’o Seffer
    6. "Prohibido," Benny Carter
    7. "Yesterdays" (arr. by Jimmy Giuffre), Hal McKusick
    8. "Five-Two," Scott Colley
    9. "Turn It Around," Matana Roberts
    10. "Sophisticated Lady," Curtis Clark
    11. "Fair Weather" (words and music by Kenny Dorham), Bob Mover (sax and vocals)
    12. "The Magnetic A," Donald Smith

    1. Fred Tompkins, who plays flute and wrote this composition, is a new name to me. But apparently he's been doing interesting things in St. Louis for awhile. Here's his Wikipedia entry (it gets into his relationship with Elvin Jones) and a link to an interview with him from last May. Jimmy Owens is owning it on this track, as he almost always does. In fact, if you're a Jimmy Owens fan and have not yet seen this... you'll want to!

    2. I don't know much about Jason Marshall but this record, which I stumbled upon via Bandcamp, makes me want to hear and learn more. And snaps for Marc Cary!

    3. So, did Sonny Clark do A&R for Time Records. Because this is secretly a Clark record. Fantastic front line, and this era of Jimmy Forrest is peak Jimmy Forrest, I think. Interesting too that this same composition appears on Cool Struttin' but as "Blue Minor." Evidence of Clark trying to get around a bad publishing deal he signed with Lion and Wolff? 

    4. Cocehmea is the sax player for the Daptones (as in Sharon Jones and the). As may listeners noted, the nods to Eddie Harris is prominent here. I actually rather like the restraint showed here, the attention to sonic nuance and melody. But, yes, this may be a bit too optimized for Spotify. But good to know there are still players following this R&B/soul/funk path to experimentation.

    5. No restraint here! So, who is this guy? He's associated with Margam, Christian Vander, and Zeuhl. If you're as dedicated to tracking Coltrane's influence as far and wide as it goes (which is far and wide), you'll have to reckon with Zeuhl, whether you end up enjoying that experience or not. You can;t quibble with the dude's technical abilities, though. Here's an interview with Seffer from 2022.

    6. Polite? Perhaps. Subtle? Profoundly so. It's bossa-esque, but no bossa nova. Maybe that explains the hint of unease or melancholy here. The variation on the chorus that follows the the first of Mundell Lowe's guitar solos is a marvelous thing indeed. the brief tenor solo is courtesy of Bill Perkins... I think. The original liner notes are a bit confusing on this one. But they indicate that this track originated from those sessions (not the sessions with Teddy Edwards and Barney Kessel).

    7. Hal McKusick is, for my money, always worth hearing. But he's also a guy who basically disappears from the discography after 1958 - this LP, in fact. He ran with fast company for sure: Boyd Raeburn, Claude Thornhill, George Russel, Art Farmer, Bill Evans. The Konitz influence is strong but not overpowering. As noted, hints of Paul Desmond as well. But I picked this mostly on account of Guiffre's arrangement, which, once you know it's Giuffre, becomes quintessentially Giuffre. Connie Kay on finger cymbals!

    8. Moody! I kind of approach my BFTs like old-school mix tapes, and I liked the progression from the Carter to this track. The tension is very plastic or fluid here, and these are all players who can really wring maximum effect from every note. Craig Taborn, Ralph Alessi, Brian Blade and, yes, Bill Frisell. As minimal as they appear to be, the composed elements here have a lot of strength. Not nearly as funky as Mingus' "Folk Forms No. 1," but echoes that cellular approach here.

    9. I dig the Coin Coin records well enough, although I find they suffer from heavy-handedness here and there. This recording stands as a ice counterpart / counterpoint. The setup is more traditional and facilitates "blowing," but it also shows how deep Roberts' AACM roots run.

    10. I've followed Curtis Clark ever since I read New Dutch Swing and learned about Letter From South Africa in the late 90s / early 00s. But this live solo performance from 1987 was new to me last year. The record is very much worth hearing and mostly favors Clark's own compositions. But this! Damn. I guess all that time he spent in Europe didn;t help his profile all that much, but he's just an important extension of the Ellington-Monk continuum as Mal Waldron, Ran Blake, etc. Ample demonstration of that here.

    11. The late-period Chet Baker is strong with this one. I find this track very moving (pun intended). Another guy who came up in the 70s, made a strong impression, then kind of got drowned out as the hype machine started humming behind the Young Lions / Neoclassicists / Neoconservatives. Oh well. Killer rhythm section here: Kenny Barron, Bob Cranshaw, and Steve Williams. Josh Evans is on trumpet and Steve Hall on tenor sax. Mover himself has shared a "making of" documentary about this album on YouTube.

    12. You'd be excused for thinking this is a Cecil McBee date. Or a Jack DeJohnette-led session. So outsized are their contributions here. But Donald Smith - who I mostly know from his association with Oliver Lake (and the fact that he's Lonnie Liston Smith's little brother) - still holds his won here. Tyner-esque, sure. But there's also a individual lyricism on display, too. It would have been nice to have more Donald Smith records, I think. But this one is pretty good, and very much of its time. Thanks again to Masahiko Yuh and the folks behind Whynot Records!

    Thanks to everyone for listening, offering thoughts, and making guesses.

  10. BFT 251: Discussion

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

    It's not Herbie Nichols is it? 

    No, later generation.

    21 minutes ago, mjzee said:

    I have not read the other responses.

    #1: Third-stream jazz.  SQ is late 60's.  Sounds British...Kenny Wheeler?  Intriguing; it held my interest.

    #2: Joe Henderson's composition "Recorda Me."  Another good performance.  Pepper Adams?

    #3: Sonny Clark's composition "Blue Minor," misidentified as track 5 on this album.

    #4: Miles meets Burt Bacharach meets trance fusion?  Didn't go anywhere but was nice to have around.  No clue.

    #5: Two baritones in a mating dance.

    #6: The guitar makes me think of one of those Laurindo Almeida albums on Tower, or maybe Charlie Byrd on Columbia.  Late '60's.  Fun.

    #7: Yesterdays.  Not Art Pepper, but similar.  Nice arrangement.

    #8: I'm guessing Ron Miles with Bill Frisell.

    #9: Coltrane-influenced sax.  Sounds like the band is reacting to the tenor rather than to any set composition.  The track doesn't do much for me - too self-indulgent.

    #10: Sophisticated Lady through a refractive lens.  A lot of pianists play in this cubist style.  Doesn't do much for me.

    #11: Sounds like a musician who fancies himself a singer - Kenny Burrell and Milt Jackson are examples.  No vibes or guitar on this track, so it can't be them.  Sax playing is more interesting.  Is this Horace Silver's composition "Peace"?

    #12: I like the pianist, but the bassist is too busy and the drummer could do with less bashing and more timekeeping.  Is this the bassist's date, since he's so prominent in the mix?

    #1: Close! Early 70s.

    #4: Digging this description! "Miles meets Burt Bacharach meets trance fusion."

    #8: Ding on the guitar player, close on the trumpet.

    #11: Not a Horace Silver composition. But words and music are by a former Horace associate (and early Jazz Messenger).

    #12: I know! the pianist is the listed leader, but this is the dummer's tune.

  11. BFT 251: Discussion

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted

    17 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

    10- Andrew Hill vibes but I don't think it's him. That moment as it creeps to 1.20ish doesn't sound like Hill. Then the hammering. Still really heavy handed approach as it keeps going. I'm stumped. Not sure how much I like this but I do want to find out who the player is. The facility is great but they're going for some real volume which is distracting me from the song itself. 

    11- The kind of thing that if played in an old school, cozy and  smoky club would be awesome to hear live. Good on record too. No clue on who this is. The vocals go really well with the playing. In fact, this band is hitting on all cylinders to my ears, especially the rhythm section. Nice track. 

    12- Great track, great band. No idea who they are. The pianist may have had a little too much espresso. Almost sounds like someone who plays the harp as well, but not Alice. Drummer is bashing in the right places. Wish I could name these players. 

    Well, not many guesses on this one but enjoyed the tracks. Thanks for putting it together. 

    Not Hill on 10, but he and the player in question both owe something of their approaches to Monk.

    Agree that 11 has a nice "late in the set" vibe. I find it quite moving.

    Everyone on 12 has been IDed by other listeners if you don't want to wait for the reveal.

    Thanks!

  12. BFT 251: Discussion

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

    1- I like the bassoon and third stream-ish concept. Reminds me of Johnny Richards so maybe the composer was influenced by him? Or maybe not. Either way, enjoyed it. 

    2- sax tone is familiar. Billy Harper? 

    3- reminds me of a Horace Silver composition, but it's not him as I don't recall a trombone in his recordings that I'm aware of. Curtis Fuller? 

    4- flirting with a Sade-esque style but less polished. Is that a varitone? Eddie Harris? 

    5- bari sax(es?) with reverb. Interesting. Reminds me of the WSQ a bit. Blueitt? 

    6- breezy and smooth in stark contrast to the prior song. Hmmm...no guesses right now 

    7- Desmond-ish opening. There's no way this is Desmond though. Interesting song. 

    8- brooding and moody track. ECMesque. Another one I'm stumped on. 

    9- another interesting song with a lot of changing elements. Kind of a theme among this bft and the compositions included. I like the variance. 

    Back later for the rest 

    Thanks!

    1: Johnny Richards is an interesting touchpoint. I honestly don't know if there's any connection there and will investigate.

    3: Not Silver, not Fuller. Already ID'ed by other listeners, but, yes, I chose this one as much for the composition as the playing.

    5: WSQ is also an interesting touchpoint. But this track comes from a kind of parallel universe.

     

  14. BFT 251: Discussion

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted

    5 hours ago, tkeith said:

    Despite my cantankerous responses, I appreciate that this BFT forced me right outside my element [Donny]. 
    walterooye.jpg.877e0904df4dfb70a96bf6e9046acb73.jpg

    track 01 - Interesting, though slightly out of my element.  A bit more in the "classical" vein than my preference.  Well done, though, as it goes on, it loses me a bit.  I'm reminded of the saxophone mouthpiece guru who, in the past year, posted to the socials asking if sax players preferred Jazz or Classical.  The overwhelming response was Jazz.  He then chided all of us for our answers, suggesting we had no idea what we were talking about.  So, why ask?  About the 3 minute mark things kick in and go in a very nice direction.  That is some powerful trumpet, and not bashful.  Yeah, I've completely flipped my perspective on this.  The intro goes down a strange path that takes me out of my element, but this fires nicely.  Yes, please.  Alto player does quite get to that same place.  I like Doplhy, too.  This doesn't *quite* hold together.  That trumpet solo was worth the price of admission, but I'm not sure this will hold up on repeated listening.

    track 02 - A true bari player, if my ears are being honest with me (as opposed to a doubler).  It's not Cuber, but this player likes RC a bunch (not a bad thing). Never played this much on bari until about a year ago, and then wondered why not.  It's a nice fit (not all songs are).  My ears tell me that this person has listened to a lot of the rock/funk side of this instrument.  I'm guessing a younger player.

    track 03 - Tune is Cool Struttin' and that sure sounds like Sonny Clark, but this is not the version I'm familiar with.  Recognize the bone but can't put a name.  Not Curtis.  Tenor is familiar, but again, no name coming.

    track 04 - This would land better if that last tune wasn't such a bitch.  With all the effects and loungie percussion, however, I feel like I've wandered into the David Friesen café. If this came on the radio or in a pop culture setting, I'd be onboard.  This reeks of one of those one-guy-plays-it-all projects, though, and for that reason, I'm out.  Wants to be later Eddie Harris, but it just isn't.

    track 05 - More effects.  This is where you tap into my inner curmudgeon.  Nope.

    track 06 - Pretty, polite.  Almost has an Ibrahim vibe to it.  It's a strong composition, but I'm not in love with the arrangement.  Progression almost has an Only Trust Your Heart vibe.  Wait, that almost sounds like Benny Carter on alto, but I don't recognize this at all.  That would explain what I'm hearing in the composition, though.  Something is off here (third listen).  Not Benny, but royalties are owed.

    track 07 - This is the almost BFT.  I'm getting a strong Konitz vibe from the alto, but it's not him.  Fan?  Contemporary?  Leaning towards the latter.  This is its own thing and it works well.  A bit more controlled than my preference, but this is for real.  Very curious.  Taking Jerome in a little different direction.

    track 08 - I like all of what is going on here.  I'm not a big fan of that Monder-ish guitar sound, but there is a uniqueness here that I appreciate.  This isn't the rule book formula, and deserves kudos for that if nothing else.  I keep wanting this to go a certain place.  It doesn't, but it a way that I actually respect.  This is not a monkey performing for me, the listener; there's a purpose here and they are not being deterred by what I might want.  This might be my favorite track outside of track 3.  About the three minute mark, guitarist pushes it in a decidedly Tom Waits direction that I don't entire love.  I think the key is, they don't care.

    track 09 - There is a familiarity here, but it's an adjacent one.  The tune remarkably familiar.  Strong alto sound, but I'm not sold.  The tune doesn't gel.  Doesn't really sound like these guys are much listening to one another.  Seems like it's trying to be too many things at once, and not really achieving any of those things.  Not nearly as hip as it seems to think it is.  And by 5:30, we're into full-on practice room masturbation -- I'm out.

    track 10 - Took awhile for me to identify Sophisticated Lady in there, but are we doing a medley, or is this really that tune?  Seems more Monk than Ellington, but it's neither.  It's not quite hitting.  Each time it gets close, it gets bangy (like Ran Blake).  Okay, we're back at Sophisticated Lady.  Live I might feel differently, but this one misses for me.

    track 11 - Not in love with the vocals, but this is sincere.  Don't recognize the tune.  The sound on this recording leaves much to be desired.  Somes like the vocals, saxophone, were recorded down a hallway.  Saxophonist is older -- there's a shakiness at times that reveals physical age.  Perhaps vocalist is also the horn player?  That would explain the oddness I'm hearing in the singing, but they are both recorded in the same way that doesn't entirely work.  Really sounds like this may have been recorded in different studios and mixed after the fact.

    track 12 - This has a lot of promise off the bat.  Has a Mapleshade sound to it, particularly those drums.  Busy piano, but that bass allows for a lot to happen.  Even though the bass travels, ultimately it holds down the vibe, and the drums are right there, too.  Piano could do pretty much anything -- not really commanding my attention.  Drums and bass are killing it, though (in a good way).  Got almost a Pharoah vibe to it.  In fact, that may be Cecil, but it sounds like a more modern recording.  Give me that bass and drums any and ALL the time.  Much as the piano isn't making a full impression on me, I'd LOVE to play with this guy.  It would force me out of habits.  I need this.

    Apologies for taking the better part of three weeks to get to this.  #12 will make me spend money (and likely #3), but it was worth it.

    Okay, my ears didn't lie to me on track 3, though I should have gotten Forrest. So track 6 IS Benny?  I feel better if that's the case, but also feel worse at not having this.  And track 12!  I'll be damned!  I didn't have Jack, but that makes perfect sense.  I shall have to acquire this.  Also, Jim's post is the perfect explanation for why I don't read prior to listening.  :D  #PresentingTheAnswerKey

    Thanks for this extensive commentary!

    The trumpet player on track #1 is definitely something of an overlooked figure. But every time they show up on record, attention must be paid.

    Track 2: Younger player as far as I am aware. Definitely a new recording.

    Track 7: Konitz contemporary for sure. This player was often compared to Konitz. But there's some Paul Desmond in the mix too, yes?

    You are onto something with track 11 (vocialist also being a horn player; horn player being of a certain age). The tune itself is a clue. Written by one trumpet player; sung more famously by another. The leader on this date has some association with the latter. 

  16. BFT 251: Discussion

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted

    7 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

    track 7 - Yesterdaze

    Indeed! I'm a bit surprised no one has unmasked the trumpet player or pianist. Also, there's a well-known drummer here, only they're not playing drums. (Yet their work hjer does resemble the ensemble work they're most known more.)

  18. BFT 251: Discussion

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted

    3 hours ago, B. Clugston said:

    Really enjoyable blindfold test!

    Track 1 is really fascinating. I agree with Jim in that it starts off Mingus-like and goes somewhere else. No idea who this is—alto player sounds like a Dolpy/Mariano hybrid, while some of the others sound like they hung out with David Baker in Indianapolis.

    Track 5. Mats Gustafsson duetting with a bass saxist?

    Track 10. That was nice. I feel like I know this pianist, but they aren't giving many clues.

    Track 12 sounds like Jack DeJohnette on drums along with McBee, so I’m guessing Donald Smith on piano?

    12 has been revealed!

  22. BFT 251: Discussion

    in Blindfold Test

    Posted

    38 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

    Track 1 — no idea, but I love it. Did a little discographical sleuthing and couldn’t line up Elvin with this ensemble. Stumped. I assume this music is from Detroit?

    Track 2 — “Recorda Me” but I cannot identify the group or the bari player, who seems to be coming out of Ronnie Cuber (not him, though, I don’t think)

    Track 3 — already identified (I peeked) but it is nice to hear this group for sure.

    Track 4 — never heard this before. Not really my cuppa, personally.

    Track 5 — again, no idea, but a bari and bass sax duo is pretty unique. I both liked it all right and wished for more inventiveness or openness… something.

    Track 6 — already identified but a record I’ve never spent any time with. Should rectify that.

    Track 7 — excellent. Sounds left coast-y to me, but I can’t quite nail it down.

    Track 8 — feels like it was done in the last 20 years; guitarist reminds me a bit of David Torn or Bill Frisell, but seems unlikely to be either. I do like this. Trumpeter is good but I cannot identify them.

    Track 9 — definitely has bite, both the alto and the piano are tugging at things. The bassist has a beautiful tone. Feels relatively recent as well, and I’d like to hear more.

    Track 10 —  wow. Lovely. Definitely not Ran — less spacious, less capricious — but another one I’d like to hear more from.

    Track 11 — I agree with Jim, but I do like this piece. I hear what they're going for, and while that thing occurred some time before this date came around, it’s honest.

    Track 12 — Cables, McBee, Hart?

    Thank you!

    Track 1 is due south (roughly) from Detroit. Almost The South.

    Track 5 is not necessarily a "jazz player" - that is, they are associated with another (much more niche) genre.

    Track 6 I love for just that little bit of uneasiness in possesses. Shade of Gary McFarland (who does not appear here).

    Yes, Track 7 is Atlantic (not the label) rather than Pacific. But the arranger is considered by many to be a quintessential West Coast musician.

    Track 9 is recent, but more of a "blowing date" from a musician whose reputation rests on some work that is more composed and, dare I say, "intertextual."

    Track 10: I knew this player quite well, I thought, before hearing this record. "Wow" was my reaction too!

    Track 12: Not Cables, but I can hear echoes of him here now that you mention it. The drummer is arguably a bigger name than Hart. The pianist is almost a no-name.

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