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david weiss
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Posts posted by david weiss
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On 6/16/2025 at 1:33 AM, BFrank said:
"Live" is pretty excellent, too.
I was at the Great American Music Hall in SF for the April 12 show, too
We used a couple of photos from that show in the booklet.
While doing my research, I came across video from that show on youtube.
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3 hours ago, jazzbo said:
Right. I believe Evidence at one time (still?) owned/owns/purchased Theresa Records.
Evidence owns this material. This is where it was licensed from.
We tried to do more research on the original owners of the label to see if the original multi track tapes still existed or if they still had all the live recordings they did (they recorded at at least 4 venues for the Live recording for example) but we got nowhere.
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On 6/10/2025 at 9:11 PM, JSngry said:
The pride of Denton, Texas.
Jim, did you know Sly was born in Denton. I don't know how long he lived there before his family moved to the West Coast though.....
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17 hours ago, bertrand said:
Taurus Woman is also on the Roy Brooks Left Bank Understanding CD.
Yes it is and it sounds like the other versions of Taurus Woman on the Garnett album "Black Love" and the Blakey Newport 1969.
However, the track in question is not Taurus Woman but it is the same tune as the unknown tune on the Rutgers concert. I like the Rutgers version a little better, they play the tune better as if they've played it a few times by then....
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2 hours ago, bertrand said:
It has to be Garnett then. This tune would not have been in the repertoire before Carlos joined since it is his tune.
Remains the mystery of why Tyrone was credited. Could it be an error in the Coda review?
I thought it might be that tune since it was also the mystery tune on a Blakey Newport recording with Shaw/Garnett/Cables I had bought at Wolfgang's Vault. I think we figured it out on this forum, perhaps someone can find the thread.
All in a day's work for the Organissimo Jazz detectives!
Hold the phone folks.
I don't think this is Taurus Woman at least not how I heard it on the Garnett album "Black Love" or the Blakey Newport 1969.
Tyrone and Woody were certainly Newark buddies....
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5 hours ago, JSngry said:
A Mosaic of all known Ra recordings from his time in Chicago in chronological/session order would be a wonderful thing, but I don't think there's a business opening for that now. That's a good thing in that there is an active and ongoing market for all things Ra right now.
Fortunately, the resources to "build your own" such set are available, so...carpe diem
How many albums total do you think this is?
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I apparently have a bootleg copy of this that I actually purchased a while back.
My copy says Tyrone Washington as well.
I'd have to listen to this. little more closely to see if I think it's him.
I was also intrigued by the unknown tune. It's a nice tune though perhaps a little underdeveloped.
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4 hours ago, pglbook said:
Thanks for the information.
According to Mosaic's description of the set, the Theresa recordings cover the period of 1980-1987 so the photo would then be from a year later.
No big deal. I actually thought the photo would have been from mid to late 90"s so I stand corrected.
Thanks again.
The last recording date is September 1987.
That album "A Prayer Before Dawn" was probably not released until 1988 at the earliest yet there are discographies and a listing in discogs that says this was originally released in 1987.
There is no copyright date on the original LP.
There is also evidence that this was released in 1989.
Theresa records was sold to Evidence in the early '90s.
They have no records of recording dates or session logs or anything like that.
Most of the people associated with Theresa Records are gone.
All this to say that a photo from 1988 is not really not that out of place, especially if it's the best cover photo option we had (and I think it's a pretty cool photo)
5 hours ago, JSngry said:That beard is value added!
Ironically, the photographer who shot the cover to "A Prayer Before Dawn" told me that the Theresa people had Pharoah tuck in his beard to try to make it appear less prominent. A few years later they probably would have pushed him to make it more prominent for a photo shoot....
On 6/4/2025 at 4:09 PM, Brad said:That’s good news but this is one set I’m unlikely to purchase. Let’s hope @david weiss is interested in less “out there” projects.
So far, our work is finishing up stuff Michael started and will be for a while.
There is really not that many moments of this being "out there" music and the last couple of albums on the label were essentially finding different settings to feature his beautiful, pure Coltranesque saxophone sound.
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3 hours ago, pglbook said:
I ordered this and think it will be a great set. I have a couple of his Theresa albums on vinyl and really enjoy them.
One thing I find a bit odd, though, is the photo that Mosaic used for the front cover of its box. It seems to be a photo of an older Pharoah than he was at the time period - 1980s - of the Theresa recordings. Or am I mistaken?
It was taken at Yoshi's in Oakland, CA in June 1988.
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21 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:
Denis has a child or children, correct?
I am positive the interviews in the booklet are heavily edited/amended, so who knows what Drayton said or recalled.
Elsewhere it was stated that both Charles brothers played with KD.
I actually played with Denis quite a bit when I first moved back to New York after college. At first, we both played in a band that played in the subway pretty much every day. The leader was a trombone player from Italy who called a slow blues and blasted blues licks as loud as possible for as long as he could and then recharged while I took a solo and then did it again. All day, every day. The guy was hugely popular and drew huge crowds and we made decent money but I can safely say that Denis wasn't loving it. I did some other gigs with him as well. A few years after that, I ran into him on the street (we both lived in the East Village) and he had been thrown out of the house by his wife so I put him up for a while (a couple of months if I remember correctly) until he patched things up with his wife. They did have a young child at the time. Denis was a sweetheart. However, I don't recall him ever talking about playing with Kenny Dorham of anyone of that ilk My Kenny Dorham roots were clearly showing at that point in my life (or so I thought) and he never said anything like I hear all the Kenny Dorham stuff you are trying to play. I played with him etc etc. I did call a mutual friend of ours to see if Denis ever talked to him about it or if he knows anything about his brothers.
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9 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:
Someone else with industry experience can correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought royalties only went to the leader. If every sideman has to be part of the deal, how do they ever release any big band records?
There are different situations but if there are royalties involved with the deal, the leader gets the royalties.
With live tapes, no one was ever paid so you would have to pay all the band members or their estates to legitimately release the live tape. So technically, Huss Charles or his family is entitled to compensation for his appearance on this record. I'm told that when Denis died, his obituary in the NY Times stated he was survived by his two brothers. That was a while ago though of course....
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8 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:
Does anyone know who got all of Bob Belden's tapes? There might be a copy in there. The only other person I know is Louis L. and I don't know how to get hold of him anymore.
Belden kept a tight lid on the tapes he had for the longest time. He would play them for you but would not make anyone a copy of anything but at some point, as his disgruntlement with record companies grew, he began sharing his tapes. He gave me a bunch of stuff. As far as I know, he never had the McLean tape. He never played it for me or gave me a copy. He had very specific personal interests. He wanted every record that Herbie Hancock (which is probably why he had the Tyrone Washington session) was ever on and also had a thing for Grant Green.
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12 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:
Didn't Michael Cuscuna say that he gave the masters for that Shorter session back to Wayne? I know he did that with Horace Silver's "Live at Pep's" tapes.
I'm surprised to hear that the Jackie McLean session is gone as I could've sworn I knew someone who had it years ago... maybe I'm thinking of another date?
Cuscuna did not give those tapes back to Wayne.
The only tapes that I'm aware of that ever were given back to an artist were to Horace Silver.
At this point, I don't think I'm out of line to tell this story. Michael invited Horace to Capitol Studios to listen to all unreleased Horace material in the vaults to see if any of it was suitable for release. Horace chose a number of tunes that became the album "Sterling Silver" that was released in the 1979. Horace did not want any of the other material to ever see the light of day so he made a deal with United Artists and took all tapes of the material he never wanted released home with him where they still sit in the closet of his former home today (well, as of two years ago at least). I've heard the Tentet session and the Live at Pep's material and it is mostly not worthy of release. Michael was correct in saying that Carmel Jones was having a bad day or a bad week and it's mostly unusable. I talked to Horace about the Tentet session years ago and he talked about how the ensemble sections were not executed as well as he would have liked and he said he regretted not taking Alfred's advice to use some of his session guys for the date.
A while back, I was talking to Michael about the Shorter date and I said in the context of Wayne's output up to 1972, perhaps this session was not up to snuff but in the context of the past 20 years of Wayne's current band, perhaps one could look at this date as a precursor to his current quartet. Michael asked me to send him a copy so he could have it handy and check it out and I think he bought it up to Don at some point but that part of it, I can't talk about.
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7 minutes ago, felser said:
I sincerely hadn't noticed, tuned out years ago, as guys like Robert Glasper didn't do it for me. Who should I be hearing from their recent catalog?
I really couldn't tell you about the albums they have made but Joel Ross and Immanuel Wilkins are excellent musicians and certainly have the potential to make compelling music. Artemis is a really good band and if you like Branford Marsalis....
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On 4/29/2025 at 8:06 PM, felser said:
Understood on David's comments, and agreed. We didn't learn anything new from Just Coolin' (it was OK, but really just product), and I can 't imagine we will from the extra cuts here. Thankfully, in some cases, like the Elvin and the Tyner/Henderson, we do learn something new by hearing them. There's other stuff in (and out of) the BN vaults I'd rather see released. Give me Burrell's mysterious 'Freedom' album, which I've never heard. Give me some of the infamous rejected albums, like the Wayne and the Train Wreck. I'll pay to hear them no matter how flawed they are. Give me some of the overlooked 70's albums that have rarely or never seen CD release, like the New Heritage Keyboard Quartet. Give me more along the lines of the Donald Byrd Black Byrd-era Montreux set, which was eye-opening.
Part of the issue here is that we are not in the CD era anymore. I discovered this for sure when we did the Just Coolin' release. I listened to all the alternate takes and picked 4 worthy of inclusion in the set but were nixed because the vinyl release took precedent over the CD release and they wanted a single LP so no bonus tracks were included (they were pretty good, maybe even on par with the master takes on one or two occasions). The Tyrone Washington material was pitched as bonus material to a Natural Essence reissue but again, the LP rules so the bonus material route doesn't exist anymore. I guess they could put them up on streaming sites if they chose to.
The fate of the Wayne Shorter date is a mystery. Wayne listened to tons of live material of his current band to find material to release over the next few years (up to 5 albums worth I've heard) but no mention of this date.
The Jackie McLean session with Norman Conners is nowhere to be found anymore.....
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2 hours ago, jazzbo said:
Rather than these I'd like to see the first 15 years or so of the label reissued with the current technology to digital (Redbook, SACD). Not going to happen but what I would prefer to see as a project.
I liked that for the Van Gelder series, they went back to the original master tapes for the early 1500 (1500-1511) series releases so there was no added reverb like all the subsequent releases of this material after the original issue. The problem was I didn't like Van Gelder's remastering of the material but still listened because it still sounded so superior to the versions with added reverb. I assume some of these releases have been remastered from the original analog tapes for vinyl in the last couple of years.
23 hours ago, JSngry said:This Bud's for you!
Absolutely!
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42 minutes ago, JSngry said:
But I am the walrus...
Turn Zev loose on this one, please!!!
Tell him there are alternate takes or newly discovered music and he'll be all over it!
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On 4/28/2025 at 12:18 PM, JSngry said:
So that's Pharaoh Sanders' son on soprano, eh?
Yes, he plays in Kassa's band.
53 minutes ago, mrjazzman said:Not into electric Miles
I was being nice in my critique of him. More bluntly, imho this guy is not a Jazz Drummer
Bluntly speaking, bad choice of drummers for Gary Bartz
I'm thinking no one else was available. Kassa is a rap artist drummer. Concentrate on one or the other
Kassa got his start with Wallace Roney's band and was in Geri Allen's band Timeline (with a tap dancer) for years. I guested with that band a couple of times and really enjoyed it. Anyways, the point is that Kassa has proper Jazz training....
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7 hours ago, Dan Gould said:
Clearly, like Just Coolin' Don Was has different conceptions of what "rejected" should mean. Not that I am really complaining, its just interesting when I think of how Michael handled the first CD reissue vs this "Complete Masters".
I guess Don Was is the boss so the buck stops with him but the actual work on the two releases you mentioned was done by others. Zev Feldman pushed for Just Coolin'. I was given the music to vet and I gave it a 7 and when pushed, I said OK, 7.5. When I told Michael I had listened to it and it wasn't that bad, he replied "aw, you're just a fucking trumpet player" meaning he knew Lee was excellent on this music but he found it was lacking in other places (as did I). From what I remember, there was some more vetting and decision making involved but Don gave it the green light in the end and felt vindicated by the response to the release. I assume Don gave the go ahead on the Burrell as well but this time it was Joe Harley, who I don't know at all, who did the work. I will say that I find none of these guys have the skills and diligence to do this on the level Michael did it in every aspect of getting something like this out. Some things are certainly falling by the wayside as time goes on especially the discography stuff and perhaps the standards of the music. The Live at the Five Spot was never a favorite of mine and with that really out of tune piano, it's kind of surprising that Blue Note released this at all but I wouldn't think this would be a ripe source for newly discovered material. I suspect Michael probably got it right when he released this on CD. I heard the same tapes that Joe Harley did for this release and nothing jumped out at me as something that really needed to be heard.
The other thing I'm wary of is all these pronouncements that say my good friend or my dear friend Michael Cuscuna as this might justify their work. Frankly, it makes me cringe a little....
8 hours ago, JSngry said:Michael was Don is.
In these terms, as far as pecking order or position, Don = Bruce Lundvall and Michael = Joe Harley or Zev.
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1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:
Are you aware of any other tapes that this gentleman had? Did he finally find a buyer with Zev or did his heirs sell this one?
I believe that these tapes were licensed to Resonance Records with the full cooperation of the Dorham and Hubbard Estates.
He has other tapes but I'm not sure I can discuss that except that one could judge from these releases and the era they were recorded in that there are some other interesting things. These releases might be the cream of the crop though.....
He provided the tapes for John Coltrane's Olatunji Concert previously.
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16 minutes ago, JSngry said:
Oh, I believe you. I'm just bummed that the bootleg I got doesn't have that. But it does have artifacts of a needle drop. Any idea where THAT came from?
And the three Joe Lee Wilson cuts...each has distinctly different audio qualities. So what roads did this stuff go through? It seems like more than usual!
I think I'm still worried about crossing lines with my former employers/collaborators but I'm working on that.....
It's public knowledge by now that these tapes came from a guy names Bernard Drayton.
Bernie was in advertising in the '60s and would hire the guys to write jingles (like Herbie Hancock) and play on the sessions.
At some point, he put on a jazz series in a club in the Bronx and recorded them.
As far as I know, the master tapes have always been in his possession. I know he has shopped them from time to time over the years (Belden played them for me in 1997. He was approached about these when he was A & R at Blue Note). Some of the tapes have certainly made the rounds (or as discussed, parts of them) but I think the masters have been with the original owner and theses releases were mastered from the original master tapes.
I thought the sound quality in general was decent and there was some stereo separation.
I have the three Joe Lee Wilson tracks of course and they sound fine. I really enjoy KD's solos here, especially on Four.
As I mentioned earlier, I find Sonny Redd's playing here to be revelatory. I couldn't believe it was him when first hear this (at this point, probably 30 years ago)
I can't imagine why there would be anything that sounds like needle drops.
I don't know if there are edits on this release but I went back to the tape I have and listened again and I hear nothing that sounds like a spice in there.
The overall time of The Theme on the recording I have is 8:21
I have no idea how Denis Charles got in the picture here past being Huss' brother. The announcement I have (and it's at the beginning of the concert) clearly says Huss Charles but apparently, it's not on this release. I can't be the only owner of this tape that has an announcement that says Huss Charles on drums so I don't know what to say about that.
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5 hours ago, JSngry said:
Whoever it is wrapping up the set hanks Kenny, Sonny, and then after a pause, "Hoss:, which could be "Huss".
Like many here, I have the bootleg that's circulated. Let me go back and play it again to see what they say there.
I thought this as well at first but I think he is saying Paul.
I can only say it so many times but I have a copy of the tape and there is an announcement by the DJ Ed Williams and he clearly says Huss Charles. To me, that is the end of the conversation..... Where do you think these discographers got the name from (even if mispronounced or misinterpreted) in the first place?
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23 minutes ago, JSngry said:
A splice or two on an old tape like that wouldn't surprise me at all. But it's common courtesy to make note of it in the annotation.
But the disc itself is playing fine.
I haven't heard the CD yet but on the original tape I have, the piano solo is about 1:08 in length on The Theme.
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50 minutes ago, adh1907 said:
Correct. The tracks are unplayable. Jumping, stuttering, stalling. I’m sending the CD back.
Who signed off this Kenny Dorham CD? Where is the quality control. Dreadful. I am requesting a refund. Don’t buy this CD.
Sounds like a manufacturing issue or an issue with the actual CD master (which is usually a DDP file) but most likely a pressing defect.
I guess we see if more people weigh in.....
The Complete Pharoah Sanders Theresa Recordings - New Mosaic
in Mosaic and other box sets...
Posted
The listing is wrong (I forgot to mention that)
Same clothes (as the photos I haven’t), same repertoire as the 4/12/81 show.
Watch it, see if it rings some bells.....