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Jaffa

Hoyt Hughes

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I recently got Manor 1182 by Hoyt Hughes & his Orch.: Not that memorable musically - but what alluring titles: "Bop-Salad" and "Panic In Puerto Rico". Neither is in any way related to Dizzy as some discographies suggest; misleading info which has been copied way too often.

It's not the best of bands but puzzling here and there with "Puerto Rico" the better side, I think.

There seems to have been an entry in "Jazz Journal" titled "2037 Who's Hughes" but I do not have this. All I find is the - rather ambivalent - short review in Billboard from June 1949.

Can anyone help ? Who is this ? Were the other titles on "Arco AL-8", an LP I have never seen also issued on 78 ? Same band ? Thanks a ot !!!

 

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Jaffa,

Some information on the band, including a personnel listing, can be found here:  https://www.pinterest.com/pin/427490189599466947/

I'll try to cut and paste some information below.

a7f9854f0fc95457e11b098a7dba7f4c.jpg

 

Hoyt Hughes Orchestra, San Antonio At Don's Keyhole Club, San Antonio, Dec. 12, 1946. Hoyt Hughes (leader, standing); Gene McKinney (trombone); Cliff Hahne and George Meyer (trumpets); Warren Carpenter, Butch Solis, John Ross, and Milton Thomas (reeds); David "Buck" Wheat (guitar); ChuChu Villa (bass); Chuck Lilly (drums). Out of picture: Chet McIntyre (piano).

I found the following from an obituary of Gatemouth Brown:

"Whilst still in his teens, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown began to perform professionally, playing the drums for territory bands such as the Gay Swingsters and William M. Bimbo's Brownskin Models. Following brief war service, he joined Hoyt Hughes's orchestra in San Antonio, Texas, where he was billed as "The Singing Drummer."

 

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Thanks, Jazztrain, for that helpful and informative reply: Much appreciated, indeed !

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Jaffa,

Lord has the following information:

>>>

Dizzy Gillespie
[G2083-16]
Dizzy Gillespie And His Legendary Big Band Live At Carnegie Hall 1947: 
Dizzy Gillespie (tp,vcl) Dave Burns, Elmon Wright, Ray Orr, Matthew McKay (tp) Taswell Baird, William Shepherd (tb) Howard Johnson, John Brown (as) James Moody, Joe Gayles (ts) Cecil Payne (bar) Milt Jackson (vib) John Lewis (p,arr) Al McKibbon (b) Joe Harris (d) Chano Pozo (cga) Lorenzo Salan (bgo) Kenny Hagood (vcl) Tadd Dameron, Gil Fuller, George Russell (arr) 
Concert "Carnegie Hall", New York, September 29, 1947
    Cool breeze (td arr)    Artistry AR110, Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD179 [CD]
    Relaxin' at Camarillo (gr arr)            -                      -
    One bass hit (gf arr)            -                      -
    Nearness (td arr)            -                      -
    Salt peanuts (dg vcl)            -     , Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD186 [CD]
    Cubana be, Cubana bop (gr arr)            -                      -
    Hot house (td arr)            -                      -
    Toccata for trumpet (jl arr)            -                      -
    Oop-pop-a-da (kh,dg vcl)            -                      -
    Things to come (gf arr)            -                      -
    Yesterdays    (unissued)
N1791E    Festival in Cuba    Arco AL8
N1792-2E    Panic in Puerto Rico        -
N1793-2E    Bop salad        -
N1794-E    A serenade in fifths        -
N1795-B2    To be sure        -
Note: "The nearness of you" as "Nearness; "Cubana be Cubana bop" as "Afro-Cuban drum suite"; and "Oop-pop-a-da" as "Oo-pa-pa-da" on Artistry AR110.
There is some doubt as to the existance of Arco AL8; the titles may be fake.
Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD186 [CD] titled "Dizzy Gillespie, volume 11, 1947"; see flwg session for rest of CD.
Artistry AR110 = Blue Note 57061 [CD].

>>>

Lord expresses some doubt about the existence of Arco AL8 and the last five titles (which include the two on your Manor 78).

It's unclear why he associates this material with 1947 Carnegie Hall concert.

There's more information here from J-Disc:  http://jdisc.columbia.edu/session/dizzy-gillespie-september-29-1947

J-Disc references Bruyninckx and raises the possibility that the last five tracks might be from a different date and/or by a different band.

jazzdisco.org meanwhile has some information here:  http://www.jazzdisco.org/dizzy-gillespie/catalog/#arco-al-8

Bruyninckx has the same information as Lord and is likely the source of the idea that the five mystery titles were by Gillespie.

Does your 78 have any matrix numbers or other information in the wax?  If so, does it match the N1792-2E and N1793-2E matrix numbers listed by Bruyninckx, jazzdisco.org, and Lord?  

I suspect that the information in Bruyninckx (and apparently later copied by jazzdisco.org and Lord) may be wrong.  It's clear that "Panic in Puerto Rico" and "Bop Salad" were issued on Manor 1182 by Hoyt Hughes.  What about the other three titles?  I can't find anything associating them with Hughes.  Do they exist? 

 

 

 

Edited by jazztrain
spelling

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Thanks again, Jazztrain: I only have Manor 1182 and I doubt the/any other titles were ever issued on Manor - albeit the matrix numbers (source?) and the titles suggest that they MIGHT also be by HH. I am well aware of the entries in Bruyninckx & Lord - which L. copied from B.; abeit without the "dash" in the mx-#; another regrettable case of hasty work, I'm afraid to note.

My copy of Manor 1182 has:

Bop-Salad mx "N-1793-2-E"

Puerto Rican Chaos mx "N-1792-2-E"

 

Edited by Jaffa

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Jaffa,

There's an article by David Neal Lewis about the Regis/Manor/Arco family of tables here:  http://arsc-audio.org/blog/2016/05/09/my-record-will-be-there-regis-manor-arco-in-a-spreadsheet-by-david-neal-lewis/

There's an associated on-line spreadsheet that lists releases from Manor, Regis, and Arco.

See here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8EtJO1uKObHSnh6dFlGazdNTUk/view

Lewis postulates that the N prefix in the matrix numbers refers to Norman Granz.  It's unclear why he suggests this, unless he's associating the recordings with music recorded at the Carnegie Hall concert on September 29, 1947 at which Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Ella Fitzgerald, and Machito appeared (which is what Bruyninckx, jazzdiscog.com, and Lord all do).  It makes no sense for Hoyt Hughes to be performing at that concert.  Also, if the material on Manor 1182 was really by Dizzy Gillespie (and it clearly isn't based on your report and by the Billboard review), it would likely have appeared on the Masters of Jazz CD (and it doesn't).

It shows 1792-2 and 1793-1 as by Hoyt Hughes Orch. and issued on Manor 1182.

The adjacent matrices 1791, 1794, and 1795 are listed as by the Dizzy Gillespie Orch. are apparently were not issued (at least on Manor, Regis, or Arco).  The only other matrices in the N179x run are N1796-2 and N1798-2.  Those are by:

"Don Michael,  America's Only One Arm Pianist" (!) and were issued on Manor 1184 (Nite-Spot / Silly Boy).

The adjacent catalog issues on Manor are:

Manor 1181.  Jack Fine with Tiny Bradshaw Orch. (Six Shooter Junction / Bride and Groom Boogie)

Manor 1183.  Bobby Gregory Cactus Cowboys (I Miss You All the Time / Cowgirl Ann)

One wonders how the Hoyt Hayes = Dizzy Gillespie conclusion got started and why it keeps getting repeated.

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Possible cause fro any Granz association?

ArcoAL1N.jpg

Regarding Manor/Regis...weren't some of those bebop 78s part of the Xanadu Bebop Revisited series?

Never heard of Hoyt Hughes before this, but...San Antonio!

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Yes, I think Xanadu (and perhaps Onyx) issued some material from Manor and/or Regis. 

I saw the JATP picture on line.  What's pictured is Arco AL1, Jazz at the Philharmonic Volume Two, not Arco AL8.

Lewis shows I Can't Get Started (Part 1 and Part 2) on album AL1 with matrix numbers N1821 and N1822.  These were also on Arco 1217.

Lewis also shows Blue for Norman (Part 1 and Part 2) on album AL1 with no associated matrix numbers.  These were also on Arco 1216.

The likely erroneous information about the Hoyt Hughes sides has them listed with material by the Dizzy Gillespie Big Band from a Carnegie Hall Concert (at which Norman Granz was present) from September 29, 1947.  The confirmed Dizzy Gillespie sides from the Carnegie Hall concert were not issued on Manor, Regis, or Arco as far as I can tell.  However, Lewis has the notation "Arco has Dizzy Gillespie" in association with the two Hoyt Hughes items discussed earlier in this thread. 

In some cases, the "N" prefix number does seem to have some connection with Granz.  For example N1821 through N1826 are all JATP material that Lewis dates to 1/28/46 and that were included on Arco AL1 and AL2.  However, matrix 1816 is for Savannah Churchill & Red Norvo Quintet.  The only other "N" prefix matrix numbers are those mentioned previously by Don Michael, America's Only Arm Pianist." 

As an aside, Don Michael played with Erskine Hawkins in the mid 1940s according to John Szwed (see here:    https://books.google.com/books?id=JtUIgpLqh4QC&pg=PT86&lpg=PT86&dq="don+michael",+one+arm+pianist&source=bl&ots=vMC9r5gq8f&sig=nxbN2AcwLk861almYCan5SRz8q0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjk--PKhKzUAhVI0FQKHT_tAHsQ6AEIJDAA#v=onepage&q="don michael"%2C one arm pianist&f=false).  There's an article in Issue 48 (January 2009) of Note & Numbers by Dieter Hartmann entitled "America's Only One Arm Pianist."  Anyone have a copy?  Enquiring minds want to know more about him.

To return to the main issue at hand, there seems to be no confirmation that I can find about the existence of Arco AL8 or the source of the Hoyt Hughes = Dizzy Gillespie assertion by Lewis.  I haven't been able to find a picture of Arco 8 either. 

 

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