BFT #92 Discussion

[Hot Ptah]

Here is the link for the download for BFT #92:

BFT 92 download

Please let me know if that link works. There should be 16 songs in this BFT.

Let the guessing and discussions begin!

Edited November 1, 2011 by Hot Ptah

[Hot Ptah]

JSngry, I wanted to send the download link to you by PM, but I received a message that you cannot receive PMs.

[BillF]

Here are a few very early and probably ill-considered comments!

Track 1

From the 50s, let's say about 1954. Bears a strong resemblance to Woody Herman's music of that time, particularly the riffs and the general character of the soloists, but this is a smaller outfit than Woody's orchestra, octet to ten players, perhaps. Relaxed, groovin' - just my sort of jazz.

Track 4

Very much in the tradition of the Hot Club de France. That ought to be Grapelli, but it doesn't sound quite so impeccable as him, so - the master late in his life or a follower closely influenced by him? Tune is "After You've Gone", a Grapelli favourite IIRC.

Track 5

Blues/boogie piano (hope there aren't two!) plus bass and drums. Could be a tack piano. For this sort of thing I think Sammy Price or Jay McShann, but it's probably someone more contemporary.

Track 6

Having wandered through ideas like Goodman and Carnegie Hall Concert, I'm guessing this is Artie Shaw in a 1941 airshot from Hollywood playing "After You've Gone" with sensational, swinging playing from Hot Lips Page and Dave Tough. Excuse me if all this is quite wrong!

Track 7

A real swing-to-bop feel about this one. A band of about seven pieces of the sort that Sir Charles Thompson used to lead, though this isn't him on piano. Date about 1946. Strong "Honeysuckle Rose" resemblances in the boppish theme, so I suppose it's on "H R" changes.

Track 9

Love this one! Again, just my sort of music! 1950s, a blues, swings beautifully. Again a medium sized band, this one including tuba and oboe. Latter made me think of Yusef Lateef, lovely boppish trumpet had me thinking Thad Jones. And do I hear Lucky Thompson? "Arranger's piano" of the sort Mulligan used to play, but I think we're in different company here. Would really like to know what this is!

That will do for now.

[Hot Ptah]

Thom Keith has asked this question. I don't know if everyone else who has the download has the same situation:

"When I extract the files, I'm presented 2 each of tracks 1, 2 and 3. Can you tell me which should be 14, 15 and 16? (based on times, I guess"

Here is my answer:

Thom, 14 should be 8:14. 15 should be 10:22. 16 should be 6:33.

Track 1 should be 7:40. I don't have the time for Track 2 here. Track 3 should be 6:32.

All of these times could be off by a few seconds.

[BillF]

Track 2 weighs in at 8:49 on my player.

[Big Al]

At some point, I’d like to think I’ve listened to jazz long enough that I could easily identify a buncha players, and broaden my horizons so that I could hear everything that’s being said. Unfortunately, I’m turning into a grouchy old fart, set in his ways, what’s all that racket & get offa my lawn!

In other words, get ready for the usual mind-numbing cluelessness!

TRACK 1: Nice swinging start. Fidelity suggests an early Prestige date right when the 12" LP became the norm. Purt-near everyone in town showed up for this date, didn't they? Love it! Can't wait to find out who all it is!

TRACK 2: The bulk of this is very nice until the Pharoah wannabe shows up and starts splattering all over the place. I tellya, my tolerance for squawky squealy sax players diminishes with each passing day. Or, with each passing BFT. Oh, and when I say "bulk," that doesn't include the most ridiculous or outta-place ending to a song I've ever heard. Curiosity killed the kat again!

TRACK 3: Nice so far! Timbales & such make me think MONGO!!! In fact, I'll even go so far as to say that this is either a Mongo session, or a Cal Tjader session with Cal on percussion but not vibes (and this would be a sneaky kind of trick I normally associate with mikeweil! hehehe)! Great stuff nonetheless!

TRACK 4: Fiddlin' around, after you've gone! Love it love it LOVE IT!!!

TRACK 5: This reminds me of Meade Lux Lewis CAT HOUSE PIANO. Maybe it is, for all I know. Sure has that nice boogie-woogie-down-the-railroad-tracks vibe to it. Love the "After You've Gone" quote thrown in there for good measure!

TRACK 6: Sounds like a Benny Goodman radio broadcast with Bunny Berigan wailing away in the spotlight! Diggin' the heck outta this one!

TRACK 7: Sounds like a mid-40's small group recording, which means it could be practically... oh WAIT!!! THAT'S my man, Ben Webster there!!!! Oh! Oh! Oh! MUST find this recording!!! I love the "Honeysuckle Rose" riff that skips a beat and goes "Psyche!"

TRACK 8: Nice! It's making me sleepy in a raining-outside-sitting-by-the-window-daydreamy kinda bliss.

TRACK 9: Wow! Just about every instrument's in here except a didgeridoo (and with a little over a minute to go, who's to say we won't hear that?)! I just heard a rimshot that reminded me of Philly Joe Jones.

TRACK 10: Reminds me of Maceo Parker & the Rebirth Brass Band, it's THAT greeeeazy!

TRACK 11: "Jive Samba," don't know who does it, don't care either because this one swings like a mutha, the way it oughta! Love the harp solo to start things, can't tell if that's a soprano sax, an accordion, or a bouzouki. Or none or all of the above! Get DOWN!!!!

TRACK 12: Eh, okay I guess. The sax player sounds bored at the 2:30 mark, not a good sign for an 8-1/2 minute track. Alright I'm hitting NEXT on the next squawky squeal. Aw, what the hell. I'm saying Charles Lloyd & hitting the NEXT button!

TRACK 13: Ahhhh, much more suited to my tastes! Man, NOBODY sounds familiar in any way, shape, or form. I mean, once this is ID'd, I'm either gonna kick myself for not recognizing anyone, or feel pretty good about liking something really obscure!

TRACK 14: Aaaaand just like that, I re-re-re-rediscover what an old fogey I am when it comes to jazz. NMCOT™, DKDC™, the usual rant about saying a lot by saying as little as possible yeah you can play a bazillion notes per second bigdealsowhat.....

TRACK 15: OMFGWTH???? NEMCOT™ DKDGARA™ NEXT NEXT NEXT ALREADY!!!! DAMN!!!

TRACK 16: Ahhhhh, I hope the remainder of this is as lovely as the beginning! Hey, I said that on the last BFT! Most definitely Bobby Hutcherson & Freddie Hubbard, maybe something from the late 70's/early 80's? I like it, that's for sure! Nice way to end the BFT!

Another grand BFT, lotsa gems, some stuff I could do without, a buncha candidates for the always-expanding Best of BFT list, and probably a couple discs I’ll chase down hopefully before I die!

[Noj]

Not reading any replies, but I know for certain that track 3 is Willie Colon "The Hustler," a personal favorite from my explorations of the salsa/latin jazz genre.

[Hot Ptah]

Not reading any replies, but I know for certain that track 3 is Willie Colon "The Hustler," a personal favorite from my explorations of the salsa/latin jazz genre.

NOJ!

You are just too good at Latin music! Why do I try?

[Hot Ptah]

Here are a few very early and probably ill-considered comments!

Track 1

From the 50s, let's say about 1954. Bears a strong resemblance to Woody Herman's music of that time, particularly the riffs and the general character of the soloists, but this is a smaller outfit than Woody's orchestra, octet to ten players, perhaps. Relaxed, groovin' - just my sort of jazz.

Not Woody.

Track 4

Very much in the tradition of the Hot Club de France. That ought to be Grapelli, but it doesn't sound quite so impeccable as him, so - the master late in his life or a follower closely influenced by him? Tune is "After You've Gone", a Grapelli favourite IIRC.

Not Grappelli.

Track 5

Blues/boogie piano (hope there aren't two!) plus bass and drums. Could be a tack piano. For this sort of thing I think Sammy Price or Jay McShann, but it's probably someone more contemporary.

Not Price or McShann.

Track 6

Having wandered through ideas like Goodman and Carnegie Hall Concert, I'm guessing this is Artie Shaw in a 1941 airshot from Hollywood playing "After You've Gone" with sensational, swinging playing from Hot Lips Page and Dave Tough. Excuse me if all this is quite wrong!

It's Artie Shaw, a 1941 airshot, Hot Lips Page and Dave Tough!

Not Hollywood, not "After You're Gone."

Track 7

A real swing-to-bop feel about this one. A band of about seven pieces of the sort that Sir Charles Thompson used to lead, though this isn't him on piano. Date about 1946. Strong "Honeysuckle Rose" resemblances in the boppish theme, so I suppose it's on "H R" changes.

Track 9

Love this one! Again, just my sort of music! 1950s, a blues, swings beautifully. Again a medium sized band, this one including tuba and oboe. Latter made me think of Yusef Lateef, lovely boppish trumpet had me thinking Thad Jones. And do I hear Lucky Thompson? "Arranger's piano" of the sort Mulligan used to play, but I think we're in different company here. Would really like to know what this is!

Thad Jones is here, but not Lucky Thompson or Yusef Lateef.

That will do for now.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Hot Ptah

[Big Al]

Track 6

Having wandered through ideas like Goodman and Carnegie Hall Concert, I'm guessing this is Artie Shaw in a 1941 airshot from Hollywood playing "After You've Gone" with sensational, swinging playing from Hot Lips Page and Dave Tough. Excuse me if all this is quite wrong!

It's Artie Shaw, a 1941 airshot, Hot Lips Page and Dave Tough!

Not Hollywood, not "After You're Gone."

Dammit! Dammit! Dammit! Dammit! I even flipped a coin: heads BG, tails AS. Came up heads! Grrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

Not reading any replies, but I know for certain that track 3 is Willie Colon "The Hustler," a personal favorite from my explorations of the salsa/latin jazz genre.

NOJ!

You are just too good at Latin music! Why do I try?

NICE!!!! Gotta pursue this one!

[Hot Ptah]

TRACK 12: Eh, okay I guess. The sax player sounds bored at the 2:30 mark, not a good sign for an 8-1/2 minute track. Alright I'm hitting NEXT on the next squawky squeal. Aw, what the hell. I'm saying Charles Lloyd & hitting the NEXT button!

Big Al, I included this track mostly for what comes after the saxophone player is finished with his solo. If you can stand it, you might want to explore the ending.

[seeline]

Am listening through to this and really enjoying the music, Ptah!

A few thoughts -

Tk 4: that sounds like a bluegrass fiddler - Darol Anger, maybe? Stuck on the guitarist... but by any chance, is this the title track from an album?

tk 9: Sahib Shihab is (maybe) one of the soloists? (Just a wild guess). It's got a wonderful groove - instrumentation reminds me a lot of Birth of the Cool. (Is that "rechanneled [sp?] stereo," by any chance?)

Tk 10: could this be the Hypnotic Brass with some guests? Or possibly the Youngblood Brass Band? (Ditto.)

Tk 16: the instrumentation reminds me of Ralph Peterson's Fo'tet recordings from the late 80s-very early 90s. (Sigh... he's gone so mainstream since then.)

Edited November 3, 2011 by seeline

[seeline]

Tk 11: That sounds like Howard Levy playing harp... My money is on this album.

Tk 15: definitely sounds like the Hypnotic Brass Ensemble, but they don't normally work with a bassist. Hmm...

Edited November 3, 2011 by seeline

[Hot Ptah]

Am listening through to this and really enjoying the music, Ptah!

A few thoughts -

Tk 4: that sounds like a bluegrass fiddler - Darol Anger, maybe? Stuck on the guitarist... but by any chance, is this the title track from an album?

tk 9: Sahib Shihab is (maybe) one of the soloists? (Just a wild guess). It's got a wonderful groove - instrumentation reminds me a lot of Birth of the Cool. (Is that "rechanneled [sp?] stereo," by any chance?)

Tk 10: could this be the Hypnotic Brass with some guests? Or possibly the Youngblood Brass Band? (Ditto.)

Tk 16: the instrumentation reminds me of Ralph Peterson's Fo'tet recordings from the late 80s-very early 90s. (Sigh... he's gone so mainstream since then.)

Interesting ideas, none correct, but thanks for the intriguing thoughts.

Tk 11: That sounds like Howard Levy playing harp... My money is on this album.

Ohhh-I thought that this was the one that no one would get. But you got it!

Tk 15: definitely sounds like the Hypnotic Brass Ensemble, but they don't normally work with a bassist. Hmm...

Not them.

[seeline]

Tk 11 - the only reason I was able to nail it was Howard levy's playing.

As for the rest, well... win a few, lose a few!

[Noj]

OK, giving it a go here. I still don't get how our most experienced listeners will identify instrumentalists out of a tune as easy as if they were looking at a photo, but it sure is awesome to read it happen. That's always been one of the things I love about these BFTs, reading the responses and being amazed at how sharp the ears of organissimo forum members are. I at best identify melodies.

1. Nice trombone, I'd guess JJ, but it probably isn't that obvious.

2. Sounds...newer than what I regularly listen to. Something slick about the recording. No guess, but it's really nice. I like the sparse vocals toward the end.

3. I have the Fania compilation OG: Original Gangster containing this great track. My friend's dad played congas in Willie's band, and that friend and his cousin have cool vinyl collections of latin jazz and salsa along these lines.

4. Violin...I'm lost. I like it!

5. Fats Waller?

6. More early music, I have no hope of venturing a guess.

7. Swings like mad, and again I'm totally without a clue how to guess on these. If I don't recognize the tune, it's very unlikely I'll differentiate players.

8. Slow and beautiful and I actually felt emotionally moved by this a bit. Love it.

9. Reminds me of Oliver Nelson's "Stolen Moments" a bit, and that's a good thing. Grabbed me from the jump and I instantly liked it.

10. Whoa, is that a tuba? Crazy energy in the rhythm, I dig it.

11. Fuuuuuuuuuunky! I'll buy it. Harmonica? Piano AND organ? Yeah! It's nagging me like I own it, but I can't put a finger on it.

12. Haven't the foggiest, but that opening riff has that thing that grabs you and makes you want to hear the whole workout until it gets back to that riff, so when it gets there again you're like "yes!" You know that thing?

13. More territory I have no hope of guessing. Recording sounds older than the ideas.

14. Another frantic pace! Off to the races! Haven't the foggiest, but me likey.

15. Has that sort of African thing happening like some Pharoah Sanders or Horace Parlan or Abdullah Ibrahim I have. I love what happens right before five minutes in, not sure how to describe it but I smiled. Bassist kicks butt. I'll buy it.

16. Oh man oh man I love this. What a finale. Reminds me of Jack Wilson. Awesome vibes.

I'm not much for guesses, but I sure enjoyed this one, Hot Ptah. Thank you for putting together such a tasteful bunch of music, which will doubtless result in a lighter wallet for me.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Noj

[Hot Ptah]

OK, giving it a go here. I still don't get how our most experienced listeners will identify instrumentalists out of a tune as easy as if they were looking at a photo, but it sure is awesome to read it happen. That's always been one of the things I love about these BFTs, reading the responses and being amazed at how sharp the ears of organissimo forum members are. I at best identify melodies.

1. Nice trombone, I'd guess JJ, but it probably isn't that obvious.

2. Sounds...newer than what I regularly listen to. Something slick about the recording. No guess, but it's really nice. I like the sparse vocals toward the end.

3. I have the Fania compilation OG: Original Gangster containing this great track. My friend's dad played congas in Willie's band, and that friend and his cousin have cool vinyl collections of latin jazz and salsa along these lines.

4. Violin...I'm lost. I like it!

5. Fats Waller?

6. More early music, I have no hope of venturing a guess.

7. Swings like mad, and again I'm totally without a clue how to guess on these. If I don't recognize the tune, it's very unlikely I'll differentiate players.

8. Slow and beautiful and I actually felt emotionally moved by this a bit. Love it.

9. Reminds me of Oliver Nelson's "Stolen Moments" a bit, and that's a good thing. Grabbed me from the jump and I instantly liked it.

10. Whoa, is that a tuba? Crazy energy in the rhythm, I dig it.

11. Fuuuuuuuuuunky! I'll buy it. Harmonica? Piano AND organ? Yeah! It's nagging me like I own it, but I can't put a finger on it.

12. Haven't the foggiest, but that opening riff has that thing that grabs you and makes you want to hear the whole workout until it gets back to that riff, so when it gets there again you're like "yes!" You know that thing?

13. More territory I have no hope of guessing. Recording sounds older than the ideas.

14. Another frantic pace! Off to the races! Haven't the foggiest, but me likey.

15. Has that sort of African thing happening like some Pharoah Sanders or Horace Parlan or Abdullah Ibrahim I have. I love what happens right before five minutes in, not sure how to describe it but I smiled. Bassist kicks butt. I'll buy it.

16. Oh man oh man I love this. What a finale. Reminds me of Jack Wilson. Awesome vibes.

I'm not much for guesses, but I sure enjoyed this one, Hot Ptah. Thank you for putting together such a tasteful bunch of music, which will doubtless result in a lighter wallet for me.

Thanks, Noj, for your insightful thoughts. The names you threw out were not correct. I am always amazed myself at how others, not me, can pick out individual players on these Tests. I agree with you on #8, I find that piece moving too.

[Big Al]

TRACK 12: Eh, okay I guess. The sax player sounds bored at the 2:30 mark, not a good sign for an 8-1/2 minute track. Alright I'm hitting NEXT on the next squawky squeal. Aw, what the hell. I'm saying Charles Lloyd & hitting the NEXT button!

Big Al, I included this track mostly for what comes after the saxophone player is finished with his solo. If you can stand it, you might want to explore the ending.

Well, I got through it. It was interesting, I'll give you that. Gonna be interested to read others comments, hopefully someone will point out something I've missed!

[Hot Ptah]

TRACK 12: Eh, okay I guess. The sax player sounds bored at the 2:30 mark, not a good sign for an 8-1/2 minute track. Alright I'm hitting NEXT on the next squawky squeal. Aw, what the hell. I'm saying Charles Lloyd & hitting the NEXT button!

Big Al, I included this track mostly for what comes after the saxophone player is finished with his solo. If you can stand it, you might want to explore the ending.

Well, I got through it. It was interesting, I'll give you that. Gonna be interested to read others comments, hopefully someone will point out something I've missed!

You do not appreciate arco bass, I can tell. That's fine of course, but some people do.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Hot Ptah

[Big Al]

I wouldn't say that. I'm just not hearing or feeling this particular piece. At this point, anyway.

[Hot Ptah]

I wouldn't say that. I'm just not hearing or feeling this particular piece. At this point, anyway.

Fair enough, and honest, which is always good.

[Big Al]

I wouldn't say that. I'm just not hearing or feeling this particular piece. At this point, anyway.

Fair enough, and honest, which is always good.

[Spontooneous]

OK, just the first half for now.

1. Beautiful bari and trombone solos; I like the others less. The trumpet makes me guess that Maynard is the leader. Maybe Herb Geller or Charlie Mariano for the alto solo. Nice tenor solo.

2. The tenor solo screams George Adams, and I mean that in a good way. The whole thing is Mingus-y -- love the arrangement -- but I can't pin it to a Mingus record. Maybe a Mingus Dynasty thing?

3. Hot descarga. And cowbells in stereo! The powerful timbales solo makes me want to guess Tito Puente, but that guess is low-hanging fruit. I like this very much.

4. I've been asked to recuse myself on this one, for good reason.

5. An interesting boogie-woogie that twists the harmony a little (check the last bars). Maybe Mel Powell or somebody in his age group?

6. "There'll Be Some Changes Made" is the song. A broadcast from Artie Shaw's period with strings in the band? There's a lot to digest in the trumpet solo. I'm impressed.

7. "Honeysuckle Rose" changes, 1944-48 time frame. The tenor makes me want to guess Charlie Ventura.

8. Is that Dudu Pukwana on alto? Very strong, despite the tuning issues.

I'm enjoying this tremendously. Got to do some detective work on the second half before I post those.

[BillF]

OK, just the first half for now.

1. Beautiful bari and trombone solos; I like the others less. The trumpet makes me guess that Maynard is the leader. Maybe Herb Geller or Charlie Mariano for the alto solo. Nice tenor solo.

2. The tenor solo screams George Adams, and I mean that in a good way. The whole thing is Mingus-y -- love the arrangement -- but I can't pin it to a Mingus record. Maybe a Mingus Dynasty thing?

3. Hot descarga. And cowbells in stereo! The powerful timbales solo makes me want to guess Tito Puente, but that guess is low-hanging fruit. I like this very much.

4. I've been asked to recuse myself on this one, for good reason.

5. An interesting boogie-woogie that twists the harmony a little (check the last bars). Maybe Mel Powell or somebody in his age group?

6. "There'll Be Some Changes Made" is the song. A broadcast from Artie Shaw's period with strings in the band? There's a lot to digest in the trumpet solo. I'm impressed.

7. "Honeysuckle Rose" changes, 1944-48 time frame. The tenor makes me want to guess Charlie Ventura.

8. Is that Dudu Pukwana on alto? Very strong, despite the tuning issues.

I'm enjoying this tremendously. Got to do some detective work on the second half before I post those.

Re #1: I also heard Maynard echoes in the trumpeter, but thought the group had an East, rather than West Coast sound, which is where I would have expected Maynard to be in the mid-50s.

[Hot Ptah]

OK, just the first half for now.

1. Beautiful bari and trombone solos; I like the others less. The trumpet makes me guess that Maynard is the leader. Maybe Herb Geller or Charlie Mariano for the alto solo. Nice tenor solo.

You ARE good! Maynard Ferguson is the leader. Herb Geller plays the alto solo.

2. The tenor solo screams George Adams, and I mean that in a good way. The whole thing is Mingus-y -- love the arrangement -- but I can't pin it to a Mingus record. Maybe a Mingus Dynasty thing?

It is George Adams on tenor. Not a Mingus or Mingus Dynasty album.

3. Hot descarga. And cowbells in stereo! The powerful timbales solo makes me want to guess Tito Puente, but that guess is low-hanging fruit. I like this very much.

Not Tito Puente. Noj previously identified it.

4. I've been asked to recuse myself on this one, for good reason.

5. An interesting boogie-woogie that twists the harmony a little (check the last bars). Maybe Mel Powell or somebody in his age group?

Not Mel Powell. I am not sure of the ages of Mel Powell and this player.

6. "There'll Be Some Changes Made" is the song. A broadcast from Artie Shaw's period with strings in the band? There's a lot to digest in the trumpet solo. I'm impressed.

Yes, an Artie Shaw broadcast. I included it because of the trumpet solo, which has previously been identified as a Hot Lips Page solo by Bill F.

7. "Honeysuckle Rose" changes, 1944-48 time frame. The tenor makes me want to guess Charlie Ventura.

It is Honeysuckle Rose changes. Not Ventura. The date of this record is significant.

8. Is that Dudu Pukwana on alto? Very strong, despite the tuning issues.

Not Dudu Pukwana. I think that the alto player would like that guess, though.

I'm enjoying this tremendously. Got to do some detective work on the second half before I post those.