Tubby Fontana batch?

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Well a whole bunch of extremely expensive Tubby Hayes Fontana dates are now available:

Tubbs

Tubbs Tours

Palladium Jazz Date

Equation in Rhythm

plus the two Red!als at Scotts.

Any recs on the above aside from the Red!als?

please refrain from using such adjectives as: seminal, crackling, groundbreaking, exotic, stunning or otherworldly etc... as they are all exclusively controlled by Dusty Groove America. (Corkin' Bastards)

[P.D.]

Beware the " Equation in Rhythm " CD.. unless you are an absolute Tubby completist. It is actually a Jack Costanzo record and Hayes plays only on Souther Suite parts 1 & 11. I have these tracks on a British Comp LP but as yet haven't played them. I suspect Hayes may only solo on Part 11 as this is included in a comp album ( which might be also one of the new issues I'll have to check the groove listings)

Tubbs Tours is a big band set.. the tunes are titles based on Cities etc. around the world.

It is a good album, worth having but not up to 100% Proof or the small group Mexican Green

I think the "Tubbs" album is the Introducing Tubby Hayes album recently reissued as a vinyl album on Epic. The song titles are the same

Palladium Date is only half a Hayes album. The original LP had three tracks by Hayes on one side. The reverse was 6 songs by Cleo Laine... Hayes is not present on the Cleo sides.. so unless you are a Cleo follower too, this is an expensive proposition for a Hayes collector.

The Comp is King Tubby.. it has tracks from all of Hayes Fontana Albums ( including only Souther part 11 ) and therefore not really worth investing in if you have, or intend to have, the other Fontana albums.

Edited March 25, 2004 by P.D.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Veeeery interesting. That's a wallet saving tidbit of info.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Thanks for the tips PD!

I was a googling and found this BlindFold Test:

“Chase And Capture” The Tubby Hayes Orchestra (with Jack Costanzo—bongos). Composed and arranged by Tubby Hayes. From “Costanzo Plus Tubbs —Equation In Rhythm”, Fontana.

Roker: If Peraza was here he’d know right away who that bongo player was.

Mance: This second tenor player here is really into something. The first guy could play, too. Ah, here’s the first one again.

Pena: Yeah—marvellous, man. Swinging.

Mance: I’ve no idea whose band this is. I think it’s just a record date for the two tenor players, whoever they are.

Fournier: That’s what it sounds like—a studio band. You think there’s two tenor players? They both sound alike to me.

Mance: There’s definitely two. You can hear the difference. That tenor player sounds like Al Cohn a little bit.

Pena: That one did.

Mance: It’s not Al and Zoot, is it? That second one definitely wasn’t Zoot.

Pena: It could be Al, but I’m sure Zoot isn’t on it.

Mance: It was a very good arrangement.

Roker: Is it Ted Heath?

Fournier: You might be right.

Pena: No, Ted isn’t making that kind of record now.

Tomkins: But you definitely thought there was more than one tenor player.

Mance: There was. Wasn’t there?

Fournier: It sounded like a forceful cat. It might have been Tubby Hayes. He can play changes a little differently.

Pena: No, it wasn’t him. He’s an excellent tenor player, but he doesn’t play this way.

Fournier: I know the conga drummer wasn’t Peraza.

Pena: It’s one thing to have a conga drummer, but to play bongos, you gotta have the right cat—and that cat was.

Fournier: Who was on tenor?

Tomkins: Tubby Hayes.

Pena: Beautiful. I didn’t think that was him.

Fournier: Like I say—Tubby’s forceful.

Mance: Who was the other tenor player?

Tomkins: Well, that was—Tubby Hayes!

Mance: Oh, wait a minute. No—it couldn’t be!

Roker: It had to be two tenors.

Mance: Yeah, there were two different sounds.

Pena: Well, I’m sorry. I only heard Tubby once before, but he wasn’t cooking like that, man.

Roker: Yeah, he really took care of the business on this album. And the band was really together, too.

Pena: I wonder who wrote the arrangement?

Tomkins: It was Tubby’s writing—the second part of his “Southern Suite”. The record was made in this country and, apart from Costanzo, it was all British. Listening to that you wouldn’t have said “This is a British band?”

Mance: No, I wouldn’t. I really couldn’t tell.

Roker: Especially with all those bongos going on.

Fournier: I couldn’t hear the bass player. In the States the bass is always strictly out in front.

Pena: The definition of individual voices is particularly hard on a big band date like this. With so many individuals there, plus the Latin instruments, it makes it very difficult to really hear everything. It sounded like an early Dizzy date. Remember those things—“Manteca” and so on? It had that flavour.

[P.D.]

You guys popped in while I was editing my post

The Tubbs discography lists Unknown personnel for the Southern / Equation album, so the second tenor is not identified.

Though Lord list a Frank Reidy and Phil Goodie also being there on tenor, Ronnie Ross on Baritone... Maybe Ronnie played tenor on that track as I know nothing of the other two.

Edited March 25, 2004 by P.D.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

So just what is Les Tomkins talkin' about in that BFT?

[P.D.]

O.K I dug out my $3.00 used comp album.. its actually mainly American artists ( Ella, Sarah, Jimmy Smith, Blakey ) I was surpised that this Tubby piece was included as part of the package.

There is a solo on Southern Suite part 1, and no bongoes

Part 11 is Bongo driven, it's subtitled Chase and Capture, and there are long tenor solos in it which at times sound like two different people, although there is no overlap, nor any 4 bar etc. exchanges. The Coda certainly sounds like two different tenors.. unless Tubbs was doing a split personality bit. Requires closer listening to confirm.

Nice arrangement but not really outstanding. I wouldn't pay Dusty prices for this track alone, though for completists it is Tubbs composition and arrangement.

Edited March 25, 2004 by P.D.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I was curious about the "Tubbs" album... a mixed bag I surmise? Any tips here??

Here is another BFT with a couple of Ellingtonians weighing in on Tubby.

Session conducted by Les Tomkins 

featuring

Russell Procope and

Harry Carney

The following blindfold test was carried out in 1964

but time would hardly change the opinions expressed here.

They could well have been uttered today - or even tomorrow.

Jazz lives on!

“Tubbsville” Tubby Hayes Big Band (Tubby Hayes - tenor, with Bobby Pratt, Stan Roderick. Eddie Blair, Jimmv Deuchar- trumpets, Don Lusher, Jimmy Wilson, Ray Premru - trombones, Alf  Reece - tuba, Johnny Scott-piccolo, Terry Shannon - piano, Jeff Clyne - bass, Bill Eyden - drums). Composed and arranged by Tubby Hayes. From “Tubbs”, Fontana.

Procope: I liked that tuba in with the trombones. It was a good big band effort in the modern jazz waltz style. I don’t know who the tenor player was, but he was all right. The overall sound of the whole record was pretty good.

Carney: I agree about the tuba. Wonderful. He established the theme and even when he wasn’t playing you could still follow the pattern. So the arranger did a wonderful job, too. The tenor was commendable. A very good drummer, but in the ensemble part I suppose he was overcome by enthusiasm. The whole thing was very well played. Was that an English band?

Tomkins: What brings you to that conclusion?

Carney: The precision. The English musicians I’ve heard are very precise. They’re serious about what they’re doing – so the result comes off that way, you know.

Procope: I like to listen to a record like that now and again. Why not? It’s good music.

Carney: I was going to ask – is the tenor player the bandleader?

Tomkins: Yes, he was the leader on the date. And he’s a player who worked with you quite recently.

Carney: Oh – Tubby Hayes, huh? Well. Tubby’s a very fine musician. He knows what he’s doing. He’s definitely had a wealth of experience, because to sit in with the band and do such a commendable job he had to be excellent. After all, he must have been under some sort of a strain. We have about the worst book–so far as explaining how to play the arrangements. We don’t have anything cut and dried, that follows through from the left hand corner to the right hand corner. As a matter of fact, I think he played the new music better than we played it!

Procope: Well, in that respect we were all even up, because it was just about as new to us as it was to him.

Carney: Plus the fact that we hadn’t been playing. We’d been off for about a week or ten days.

Procope: Except for a few rehearsals. But I’d just like to throw in an extra plug for Tubby. It’s not just ability and experience when you get thrown in a spot like that. It takes a lot of guts to get up there and do that sort of thing. I’d like to commend Tubby for his great performance.

Carney: And I was very happy to see that the audience at the Royal Festival Hall that night really dug what was going on. He was very warmly applauded. And he not only pleased the audience: the band was knocked out by his playing.

[jazzbo]

Thanks for posting that! Was great to see Tubby getting some love from core Ellingtonians!

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

"Palladium Date is only half a Hayes album. The original LP had three tracks by Hayes on one side. The reverse was 6 songs by Cleo Laine... Hayes is not present on the Cleo sides.. so unless you are a Cleo follower too, this is an expensive proposition for a Hayes collector."

Was just checking out his commentary re: the Tubbs/Cleo date.....but the real reason I resurrected this thread is to ask about P.D.

Where'd he go?