[What vinyl are you spinning right now??]

5 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

he was a dealer based in Italy and had internet auctions and set sale lists back in the 90s/early 00s.

I think you are confusing him with Roberto Castelli and his legendary "Jazz and Improvised Music Auction List".

[What vinyl are you spinning right now??]

21 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I dont' think that not being able to read sheet music is a criterion. Many jazzmen from more "traditional" styles of jazz (a strange term to use for hard bop or post-bop, for example) have never been able to do that either. BUT - as you probably are aware yourself - the comparisons you allude to only exist because there are SO MANY out there in this never-ending debate of the place of free jazz within jazz who INSIST that playing free or free players are on a HIGHER artistic level than all those who are not (and have never been) part of that free (or avantgarde or whatever ...) movement. Which is an argument that would only hold water if they were indeed able to do everything those who came before them in the "non-free" world (which would be on a "lower" artistic level according to their "reasoning") have done and they have exhausted ALL of that and would then go above and beyond that.

But if they are not able to do that then what they do in the "free" or "avantgarde" world may well have its merits but it most certainly is not on a "higher" artistic level. In fact they have not gone higher but sideways in the evolution or development of the music and have just branched out in a different direction. Which is fine if this is what they prefer to do. There are many differnt branches in the evolution of any broader style of music. But they really should not - never ever - claim they are on a "higher" artistic level. Or else their lack of "chops" in the mastery of their instruments, technique, ability to swing outright, knowledge of all the changes, etc., would be very easy to hold against them by the musicians from the non-free realms of jazz who DO have these chops.

Just my 2c but I stand by them.

 

Fair enough, but your initial argument (to which I reacted) was that the FMP "clique" played free, because they didn't have the skills to play ("real") jazz.

I don't think any of those musicians ever claimed that they were playing on a higher artistic level than other musicians. Besides, as Clifford rightly points out, many of them were also very skilled in more "classical" jazz (or other music).

[What vinyl are you spinning right now??]

2 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

 

And how was it (Free Music Production) ? 

I wonder what day I might choose to dip into this.....

I like some of the Free Jazz, but only thinks like Ornette, Don Cherry, Cecil Taylor Unit (not solo), late Trane, Pharoah and so on, and was already on the scene when Europeans played Free Music. It was a certain clique then in those years 1976-78. Somehow, though I´m European, I can´t really get with it if it´s European "Free Jazz" because I can´t feel the roots. And the guys and girls who did those "free music meetings", I doubt most of them could play something with written chords and a song structure. Sometimes one of them tried to sit in on a session and we played something simple, let´s say "Straight No Chaser" or "Tenor Madness" and when his turn came, he would go completly out and never stopped.....

There are still kind of folks like that. Last year (in the few weeks between lock-downs) we played a few gigs with one set and jam session as the second set and there came a girl, I don´t know what stuff she had smoked before and wanted to sit in on piano and when we asked here, what tune she would like to play, she says "let´s improvise". She was not invited on stage....

 

It happens all the time and may be difficult to avoid, but it makes little sense to label freely improvised music as "(free) jazz" and then judge it according to criteria specific to "jazz".

[What vinyl are you spinning right now??]

10 hours ago, HutchFan said:

Now spinning on my 'table:

This one and (even more so) "Concepts In Unity" are perennial favourites. Superb stuff.

[BFT 207 - Link & Discussion]

12 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

You got it. I have a needle drop of "a" pressing of this album. 

The original album from 1974 was called: "The Black Breast Has Produced Her Best, Flesh Of My Skin Blood Of My Blood". On later issues (which have completely different covers) the first part of that spectacular title has been omitted.

[BFT 207 - Link & Discussion]

9 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Track 3 - Not particularly enjoyed by many here. Unique singer who self produced much of his output via his income as a dentist. 

 

It's the 4th song on side 1 of this album. If you own an original pressing, you are a rich man.

[Archie Shepp]

On 5/18/2021 at 6:31 PM, mjazzg said:

Good, a good and appreciative home.  I'll continue to enjoy on Spotify and congratulate myself for resisting (whilst secretly weeping)

Dry your tears, the Pharoah is available again.

["Quartetto Gato Barbieri"]

Earlier today, this album was advertised and immediately sold (for 1.000 euro) on the website of Record Mania (Swedish record store).

Described as follows: "Ultra rare test pressing of never released double LP recorded in Italy with Franco D'Andrea, Bruno Tommaso and Pepito Pignatelli. Features stellar versions of "Maiden Voyage" and "So What" plus six more tracks, nice listening through all four sides. Records appears unplayed, just light signs of storage, plays great. Comes in generic white plain sleeve with RAI stamp + Dymo-sticker ("Gato Barbieri") on front, has a white sticker on front, some humidity spotting and minor paper tear off on back (just white paper torn off, there's no print at all on sleeve). Italian only original." You can listen to a 4 minute sound clip on the website .

Information about this release (on Discogs and elsewhere) is scare and incomplete. A French seller offers longer sound clips here .

Does anyone know more about this particular record or about this session (or other Barbieri sessions for Italian radio and TV, apparently there are many)?

[Evan Parker]

1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

Grand Old Fish of his tiny pond he might be, but I can't believe there is anyone who is having their heads turned by what he is saying, particularly given that he is not even saying it directly.

The Wire's article criticising him is doing more to publish those views than Parker himself is.

No heads turned? Then why are we discussing it here? In fact it was even you who brought it to the attention here with your initial post about his piece for Sons d'hiver.

[Evan Parker]

38 minutes ago, Д.Д. said:

The guy has his views, however wacky they might be. He is voicing them from time to time (to a grand worldwide audience of maybe 500 people). The Wire says this makes him "selfish and irresponsible"? How is that? Who is he supposed to be responsible to? Why can't he be selfish? He is not a government official, he does not formulate public policy, his views have no implications. As far as I am concerned, Evan Parker can say whatever the fuck he wants.     

Yes, he can. Just as Tony Herrington has the right to express his opinion on Evan's views and the way in which they are expressed.

I think you may be underestimating Evan's position as a "Grand Old Man". Few other musicians (in this, admittedly, small world of free jazz) would cause so much disappointment and dismay with such statements. When I read the Wire piece, it is mainly about that, not about Evan's freedom of speech (which TH obviously acknowledges).

[Modern/Avant New Releases: A running thread]

That's all well and good, but surely the younger me will not be the only one here who, as a novice listener and fan, has benefited greatly from reading liner notes or record reviews? And I often got a lot of pleasure out of it too.

[Jeanne Lee - Conspiracy reissue, at last]

 

18 hours ago, djcavanagh said:

Bandcamp page has it as copyright Gunter Hampel, which would suggest to me it was legit. 

 

Edit to say the full digital album has now been made available. 

I sincerely want to believe it's legit (through the Hampel connection). It's just that they overemphasise this a bit on all channels without giving much concrete information. For example, they put the following post on their webpage: "What an important task you undertake reissuing such seminal recordings AND with the ethicality of benefiting performers and protecting their moral and artistic (and financial) rights. Thanks guys/gals and look forward to your future releases." Sounds a bit artificial, doesn't it?

It could just be my suspicious mind, but some more info about the source would be welcome.

16 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

interesting. I guess they were partners when the record came out so he could license it...

for what it's worth the original pressing came out on Mait Edey's SEEDS label. As that imprint was going out of business, Jeanne picked it up and issued it on her Earthforms label nearly concurrently. 

It seems that this new release will be a reissue of the Earthforms (second) pressing, which has a cover design that's slightly different from the original.

[Jeanne Lee - Conspiracy reissue, at last]

There was a reissue of this album a couple of years back, but that was labelled "unofficial" by Discogs.

Can we be sure that this new release is not a bootleg? I don't know the label (apparently it's their first release).  The bandcamp page doesn't dispel all my doubts.

"An independent label reissuing music that is important but out of print. artists that should be heard more and remunerated.
 All the artist (or there families) retain all copyright & publishing ownership, and the royalties/benefits from there compositions. The label only profits from its share of selling LPs" (sic)

[Billy Harper Quintet - Antibes 1975]

7 hours ago, Д.Д. said:

Well, Pharoah Sanders 1975 Paris live recording (also belonging to INA) is available for streaming: https://open.spotify.com/album/4OIvs636Rl3NeLlsK9Wktt , so I guess this is not impossible in principle. 

And Shepp's Live in Paris 1974 is available for download: https://transversales.bandcamp.com/album/live-in-paris-1974 .

I doubt it that INA is imposing "no CD" restriction on Sam Records, so it is in all probability Fred Thomas' decision.     

Transversales has indeed released several live recordings in cooperation with the INA, but only on vinyl (no CD's).

[Billy Harper Quintet - Antibes 1975]

49 minutes ago, david weiss said:

Again, Mosaic is doing collections of previously (but for an alternate take or two) released material not new material. Mosaic will deal with the record company in question, not the artist in most cases. A new recording requires permission from the artist and a fee to be paid to release this new work. INA owns the physical recording but does not own the rights to the music created on said physical recording. Technically, they can not release the music without the artist's permission. Yes, the artist can turn down the deal if it is not a good deal for them and I have had to do this a few times myself but sometimes an artist will need the money especially during, say, a pandemic and might accept an offer they would not usually accept. You can lay this at the feet of an artist saying it's the artist's fault for excepting all the shitty deals they felt they had to accept through the years but that would not really be fair. Historically, artists have been given shitty deals and that has changed a bit over the years but it has not gone away. Artists are more aware certainly but they are offered crap all the time and feel they have no choice sometimes. I can probably guess that both INA and the record label made more money off this release then the artist. I personally don't think that is fair. This might not be the cases if more records were pressed or CDs were pressed as well. I recently turned down a low offer for a similar situation to this and they remedied it by pressing more LPs to give the artist a more acceptable fee. 

I'm sorry, but I don't see the logic in your reasoning. Would Mr. Thomas deliberately have fewer records (or CDs) pressed than he could sell, just so that he would not have to pay an acceptable fee to the artist?

I also believe that you are grossly overestimating the profit that Mr. Thomas could ever make from this release.

I have a lot of respect for your efforts in the interest of the artists and I agree with much of what you write, but are you really sure about your allegations in this particular case? To be clear: I am in no way involved in this release or other projects of Mr. Thomas, with whom I only had a conversation once when I was in Paris. It was about music and it was very pleasant.

[Billy Harper Quintet - Antibes 1975]

7 minutes ago, Д.Д. said:

Because the music is being released (with great respect, sure enough) in a purposefully limited, high-price format. Access to the music is curtailed - intentionally. If Sam Records do not want to deal with CDs (who knows, they might really not sell), they could have at least made the download / streaming option available once the LPs sell out. Would this somehow degrade "great respect for the music and musicians"?     

I don't know if they have the right to make a download available. I guess that will depend on the terms of the licence agreement with the owner of the recording (INA).

Let me be clear: I would love to have this music (maybe the complete concert?) on a CD produced with the same care. But that, for whatever reason, is apparently not an option. 

 

[Billy Harper Quintet - Antibes 1975]

This is a larger excerpt from the interview with Steve Feigenbaum (Cuneiform) cited above. Some interesting observations and a lot more nuanced than that one sentence about sales figures. 

 

I’ve read a lot about the vinyl revival, does vinyl sell?

I released a lot of vinyl and the only way it sells is if the band is playing a lot, and is selling it themselves from the merch table. The big legacy is going to be all these people with unsold vinyl albums and unsold CDs. I went very broke chasing the vinyl thang. If the artist sold it, it sold. If the artist didn’t sell it, it didn’t sell. That’s really it. And when I say the artist sold it, I mean they took it on tour with them.

What about these small, boutique vinyl stores? They seem to be selling records.

They may be doing great, but it’s not enough to pay for the huge amounts of money you have to spend to make a vinyl record. The amount you have to spend to make a vinyl record is huge compared to making a CD.

Are CDs still relatively cheap?

Yes. When I release something on CD, I can sell between 300 and 1,000 copies, even now. That’s what I am doing now. That’s what Cuneiform is doing now. I was selling a hell of a lot more than 1,000 of my better titles when I had a staff that I was paying. A great title was selling 10,000 copies. 

You don’t see much about CD sales.

They don’t talk about it because it isn’t perceived as interesting or hip by the media. Something that I can sell 1,000 copies of as a CD, if it comes out on vinyl, and the band doesn’t take any from me, maybe I can sell 75 or 100. That’s what I can sell. Now if the band takes the rest, it can work, but they have to take them. It is very nice when the band buys copies of the CDs from me, but I don’t require it to release a recording. But if the band says to me, “WE WANT VINYL.” I say, “Great, my minimum quantity is 250, and I want 30 of them. Are you going to take 220?” If they say, “Sure,” then we do it. If they say, “What the fuck are we going to do with 220 copies?” I say, “Well, what the fuck am I going to do with 250?”

Why does it work if the band sells vinyl?

Vinyl is great to sell off the bandstand. People want a souvenir. They want a shirt—they had an incredible time at the show—they want to talk to you after the show, and shake your hand, and tell you, “I had an incredible time.” Even if they don’t have a record player, a record is this nice big thing, and it’s a perfect thing for the band to autograph. It’s a way to show how much you loved the show you just saw, but it’s not necessarily the way people are listening to music. There are people who like vinyl and they do buy it either mail order or from stores, but it’s not enough. At Wayside Music, which buys other people’s releases from distributors and makes it available to people through mail order and online sales, we have a lot of vinyl customers. We sell a lot of vinyl, but it’s all one of this and one of that. It’s 1,000s of things, but one of this and one of that. A really big vinyl seller for Wayside Music is three or four copies. That’s great. And since I am buying them one at a time, that’s fine. But if they cost me a fortune, and my minimum quantity is 250, selling four copies kind of sucks. 

[Billy Harper Quintet - Antibes 1975]

Format war all over again. Sigh.

I don't know if the situation is different in the US, but friends - musicians and others - who are active in niches within the niche (decidedly "non-commercial" music) assure me that they sell a lot more vinyl than CDs today. To such an extent, in fact, that it makes little sense to release their music on CD, even though it is a lot cheaper (and therefore potentially much more profitable) than releasing a record. 

That is not a value judgment, but an observation. And it's not the same thing as the largely artificial vinyl-hype on the commercial music market (the music as lifestyle accessory you refer to).

[Billy Harper Quintet - Antibes 1975]

My post was not about the format war.

I was surprised by the (implicit) allegations against the Sam label and this particular release. The care (and undoubtedly expense) that was spent on the production of this release seems to testify of great respect for the music and the musicians.

If my impression was wrong, I would like to know why. 

[Billy Harper Quintet - Antibes 1975]

10 hours ago, david weiss said:

I'm well aware of the INA archive. INA licenses these recordings to labels for a fee based on a percentage on the number of albums pressed. I've had offers where a larger percentage of the pie was offered to INA then to the artist. Another example of the artist, who produced the actual music, always being last in line for payments...

Different situation I believe. Mosaic dealt with collections of previously issued music for the most part (with some alternate takes) and licensed the music from various labels. Sometimes the license deal would be based on the number of albums pressed and hence, one of the reasons for the limited edition....

But you criticised the "limited edition model" because it brought the artist less income, didn't you? Mosaics sell out too...

Isn't it possible that the licence agreement with INA also contain provisions on the size of the pressing? And would the "percentage of the pie" offered to the artists not be determined by INA, the owner of the recording? The Sam Records website mentions that the album is released "with the full permission and cooperation" of Billy Harper. Is there any reason to doubt this?

Of course I have no intention of accusing you of anything and I want to respect that you cannot reveal all your information on a public forum, but I honestly don't really understand your criticism on this specific release and label. Taking into account the high quality of the production and presentation and the very reasonable price, this can hardly be considered as an example of making quick money on the backs of the musicians. I don't need to tell you that there are hundreds of new releases in the shops every week where such practices are taking place.

[Billy Harper Quintet - Antibes 1975]

19 hours ago, david weiss said:

Again, I can't get too deep into it in a public forum. To prove a point, I would have to get into numbers and that is personal. Yes, independent labels do not have the budgets the major labels do but there is still a fair wage to pay a musician even if you are an independent label. But that really wasn't my point anyways though. I was saying that this limited edition model makes it more difficult to pay a musician a fair wage since you are limiting how many you can sell and therefore depriving the artist of potential royalties from more sales. The limited edition might guarantee you make a splash and sell out but it is not the best model for the musician who made the music in first place. I see that the album sold for 28 euros on their web-site so at maximum (if they sold them all through their web-site), 28 x 2,000 is 56,000 Euros. I'm sure a certain amount sold through distributors where the label would see less money per album and there are expenses as well but I don't know about non-profit. Non-profits do have salaried employees and sometimes they take a decent salary as well. I'm just trying to say I'm a little skeptical. More power to him for starting a label and more power to him for these great releases but I remain a bit skeptical about all the limited edition and non-profit stuff.... There is a reason all these labels are jumping into this record store day stuff....

These are recordings from the archives of Radio France, owned by the French National Audiovisual Institute (INA). INA works with Fred Thomas, but also with other labels, to make selected recordings from these archives available to the general public.

[Sonny Simmons: Rumasuma]

10 hours ago, Late said:

Discogs only lists "recorded at Contemporary Studios," but I wonder if Roy DuNann was the engineer (in 1969?). Lester Koenig produced.

 

Roy DuNann left Contemporary in the early 60s. The number of recordings with him as a sound engineer is surprisingly (and disappointingly) small.

The funny thing is that he started working for Koenig recording dixieland jazz (for the Good Time Jazz label). That's where his heart was. He didn't like at all the modern jazz that Koenig started recording for Contemporary. I remember from an interview I've read the question what his thoughts were when he was recording those historic first sessions of Ornette Coleman. His answer was something like: "I would have sent the boy home."

[Wadada Leo Smith, Milford Graves, Bill Laswell - Sacred Ceremonies]

I am tempted, but have yet to overcome my aversion to Laswell.

[Roger Hawkins (1945 - 2021)]

On 5/26/2021 at 1:37 AM, JSngry said:

Because, maybe, in real time, there were real choices between Muscle Shoals and Memphis. I made my choices early on for Memphis, even if it was a choice of degree (and a smallish one at that). But a choice it was, and is.

Forgive my ignorance, but why do you have to choose?

[Mario Pavone (1940-2021)]

Sad news. He was a great player.

From the late 80s onwards, he seemed to be omnipresent, but I cherish his playing on recordings from the late 60s and early 70s with Paul Bley, Annette Peacock, Nature's Consort and so on. Quite an impressive curriculum. I also have a soft spot for his 3 records on (his own?) Alacra label: Shodo, Digit and Sharpeville. 

Thank you for the music.