_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
neveronfriday
-
Posts
3,009 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Donations
0.00 USD
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Blogs
Posts posted by neveronfriday
-
-
I hate those n.n. papersleeve sets (this is apparently one of them) so I wouldn't go for it. I went for this one ( http://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00AFOS7Z6/ref=oh_details_o04_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) when it was around Euro 39.- and am enjoying it very much.
I know that fans of classical music look down with disdain on people who buy these heavily discounted monster sets, but this thread (special thanks to Flurin) plus some others around the Net allowed me to get a core classical collection together fast ... at next to no cost. The other day I picked up the Gould Bach box for around Euro 54 (on Amazon.it for a few seconds), the Julian Bream for "an apple and an egg" (as we say over here), plus a few others (especially excellent baroque music that I enjoy).
If you are selective and actually read before you pull the "buy me now" trigger, right now seems to be the best time on covering your classical bases. I tried to make sure that I'm not doubling up that much and that the performances are above average and better, and so far ... I'm a happy camper.
Thanks Flurin, and the many others who post here whenever they come across decent bargains and interesting sets.
Much appreciated. -
I went for the Lenny and Living Stereo boxes ...
I already had those at preorder prices ... which were just a tiny bit more, as far as I recall.
-
The Vivarte box goes for a pretty nice price too (€ 54):
http://www.amazon.it/Vivarte-Collection-Abraham-Van-Kerckhoven/dp/B00AOTZ156/
And so does the *great* All-Baroque Box from DG (€ 62):
http://www.amazon.it/The-All-Baroque-Various-Artists/dp/B008BP1LS6/
Henze for € 51:
http://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00ECTZJXI/
Boulez for € 40:
http://www.amazon.it/Complete-Works-Ltd-Pierre-Boulez/dp/B00BLDHPZS/
Philips Original Jackets for € 60:
http://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0091HVMVO/
Crazy! The Vivarte has been even cheaper now and then though, but still ... never saw the All-Baroque even remotely close to that price range and I really love that one!
Thanks for the heads up. I jumped on the DG All-Baroque Box.
P.S.: 4.90 postage/shipping. Didn't people say that had gotten more expensive somewhere along the way? I guess they're just going to send it from amazon.de anyway ... which usually happens when I order from Italy or the UK.
Thanks again, Flurin.
Would have missed that one.
-
Living Stereo #2 just showed up. I have to say I have slightly mixed feelings about it, leaning a bit towards disappointment. Whereas Vol 1 had quite a few bonus tracks added to the various CDs, Vol. 2 takes a much purer original release approach (though no back cover notes on the sleeves like a true OJC release). There is some shuffling around of Reiner conducting Beethoven Symphony 1 & 9 to put #9 on one CD but then Symphony #1 is all by itself (at about 23 minutes). Frankly this is ridiculous, since this isn't an OJC release. I think the average CD length across the 60 CDs is probably 45 minutes. What bugs me in particular is a few of the Fiedler releases where there was an actual CD release with sensible pairings of bonus material and none of this was included in this set. It just seems like a missed opportunity and I am now not sure what to do about these Living Stereo CDs with material not in the #2 set, since I was really hoping to be able to de-accession them, but now I don't think I can.
Agreed.
But I got it cheap, so it was an OK purchase.
What really pi**es me off are the wildly jumping prices (pre-order cheap, then not cheap, release price cheaper ... then shortly thereafter (much) more expensive and then, suddenly, ... much cheaper than the preorder for a minute or two. Or for a week. Or never again. Irritating pricing robots. The problem is that one never knows when something might go out of print in an instant ... or stay in print for eternity. First world problems.)
P.S.: Still, if I consider what a lot of this music used to cost, these price-reduced (sometimes somewhat pedestrian) reissues are still a real bargain.
-
To close this particular train of thought down: Some of the material is available in (much) better quality. The problem is that it does not include alternate takes, bonus material, etc. So, if you want it all, like I do, you're stuck with what's currently available. I just decided to refrain this time ... once burned, twice shy.
And, jazzbo, the polarity is definitely not the only problem if you try to reverse it. You're still stuck with mastering that pushes the trebbly aspects and narrows the soundstage ... when the polarity is reversed, only minor deficiencies get ironed out (a minor improvement in overall sound, plus, if you are lucky, a somewhat improved soundstage). That is on my system though, and many people's much more revealing ones, decent ones, better ones and whatnot might and will differ.
A last thought: Most people who buy this stuff don't have the possibilty to do anything but twist a maximum of three knobs, at best ... and that's it. All of those are stuck with sub-par mastering. So, is music produced for those who have the ability to tweak the sh*t out of stuff or for those who can't, won't and haven't even thought of doing so? One step further: Is this mastered for the "elite" (with the right system) or for the average audience? The former can live with it, perhaps, the latter has to and will simply never know better. It's the latter aspect that contributes to a decline in "artistic", "sonic" or whatever value. To be quite brunt (and, I repeat what others have said before me), if you have only seen the Mona Lisa covered in fluorescent color by some hack, you won't know what it is/was really like, will you? In the end, it's really an academic question which most people couldn't give a sh*t about. I think it is depressing that sonic deficiencies aren't even recognized anymore today. But that's a whole different train of thought. -
@jazzbo
Like I said above, I'm not the type to expect electronic gear to save the day.
Volkher (deus62)
I don't expect electronic gear to save the day either but IF something has phase/polarity inverted, correcting it does improve the sound, reverses the treble/bass balance, restores the ambient information which defines a lot of the soundstage, etc.
Sucks that these get released that way, but being able to correct it can improve enjoyment of the sound. At least it stopped me kvetching about these releases and allows me to actually use what i spent money on in these cases.
____
Absolutely valid point, certainly, but - as far as I know - reversed polarity is really the least (and altogether almost negligible) problem. Happens, but it is comparatively rare. What is common is mastering that just turns music into tin can sound. And THAT is only marginally (is that a word?) fixable. If a mastering engineer (one who was probably forced to do so ... that's why I would refuse to pile on him/her together with others) boosted the treble and applied all kinds of weird EQing to a recording there is only comparatively little you can do. Yes, I also try to make up for it by twiddling the knobs but, really, what's lost won't magically reappear. What you/I are doing is masking mastering/engineering decisions and there's only so much you can do to alleviate the problem(s) (plural, because usually there's more than one).
-
22-bit - in the case of Verve - are 21 bits too many.
Always.
Question: the sound on the 1997 box wasn't very good, then? (I haven't had the chance to play my 2014 box yet, and I'm no audiophile - I've been listening to pre-1920 stuff lately, so "bearable" is enough for me).
F
Really, it's a matter of personal taste.
Personally, I would choose other editions.
BUT: My collection - and I hope I'm exaggerating here - consists of 50% stuff I bought to have the music (and I'm happy to have it), no matter what the sound quality. What really irks me though is that a lot of it I could have had in better quality. I was impatient, gullible, stupid. And today I don't want to reinvest the money. I'm not the type to buy seven editions of some CD to find the best-sounding one (and I don't have the cash either). Maybe you remember (don't know if you were around way back when) the mass of "24 BIT remastered" ZYX OJC CDs. When they were available from 2001 (German cheapo retailer) I bought several bags full of those. To be quite honest, a 20-year old herring in a 30-year old can sounds better than that shite. A true abomination. I didn't listen to good advice, bought it all ... and hate the world for it today.
The same goes for the Verve Master editions. People on here warned me, time and again, and I bought them all. Dumb. The Bill Evans Complete set basically holds all of that stuff. If someone told me today to avoid it, I would (probably ignore him/her to have the music).
It's all schizophrenic, really.
There's a book in all of this somewhere.
-
22-bit - in the case of Verve - are 21 bits too many.
Always. -
I don't want to knock the music. Huge Evans fan here who likes every scrap he finds.
Hell, I bought a ton of the stuff just for the extras, the additional takes, etc. (lots of Verve editions)
Doesn't change the fact that Verve has done injustice (soundwise) to a load of material they regurgitated since 2000+
-
@jazzbo
Like I said above, I'm not the type to expect electronic gear to save the day.
I have a (comparatively) cheap (Marantz PM-78 and Dynaudio 1.8MKII) setup which I chose that time to make mediocre stuff sound a bit warmer and better, but comparing those Verve masters mentioned above to earlier editions (the ones available) on my system just tells me that they aren't worth the money.
I know I sound like a Hoffmanite, which I'm not, but it really comes down to this: Comparing the Verve Master (and whatever they cooked up subsequently or previously) editions to, f.ex., the Dennis Drake Ella Fitzgerald and Oscar Peterson remasters just shows how bad the recent Verve editions were/are. I wasted a sh*tload of money on that stuff and no amount of knob twirling and whatnot will save them. It just makes them sound marginally better, at best.
I guess a tube amp might improve things beyond my (warm) Marantz (A-class), but no amount of tweaking will give you back the soundstage ... which is completely ruined on most newer Verve editions which have a center-focused sound.
In the end though, it all comes down to personal preference, and Verve later remasters don't even come close to mine.
I have several hundred of those remasters lined up to be shot, sold or simply trashed (since nobody wants to pay more than a few cents for them anymore anyway ... unless they are rare and shrink-wrapped).
YMMV (and probably will).
Volkher (deus62) -
I chime in here every 12 months or so ...
I had the mouse pointer hover over the "buy me now" Complete Evans boxed set several times now.
What stopped me is this (without wanting to ruin it for anyone, especially completists who don't give a hoot): The mastering is quite bad, IMHO.
I know there are people on here who like to twiddle knobs to make the stuff sound better, but the Suhar Guhr (spelling?) and similar remasters (think Verve Master Edition and, partially, Verve Elite) ... suck in comparison to earlier editions.
It pisses me off every single time I put those editions on ... harsh, brittle, trebbly, etc.
Bill Evans and a ton of others deserve better.
AND ... NO ... I'm not the audiophile geek (anymore) and I'm not a Hoffmanite (a**hole).
It's just that those Verve remasters really do suck the life and ambiance out of the music.
*sorry* -
Tis indeed, but look at the "pretty good to very good" list in mjzee's most helpful overview, with which I agree ... alternatives would be aplenty in an ideal world, but as it is, there's some on Collectables (licensed, I guess) and some on Fresh Sound and the like ... and yes, I do have the official Pepper and Moore abd Paich discs.
It's Membran, isn't it?
If it is ... meh.
Also look at the other thread for plenty of info, including some discussion of sound that's not all that unfavorable.
Thanks for the heads up!
-
I've really bought it for the things other than Prez (Duke Jordan, Cecil Payne etc.) ... there's a ton of Parker (10 or 12 or so discs?) and some Pres (3 or 4 discs?) ... it was discussed in some detail here:
I never tried to find out what exactly the Pres and Bird material is in detail (and haven't played any of it yet, either) ... but I think there's not much new to today's listener (i.e. Bird's Rockland is there, but I think at wrong speed ... but check the thread linked above for more).
It's Membran, isn't it?
If it is ... meh.
-
Actually I did check your original site - not the one you now list - and the redirect you mention has only now appeared dated January 2 2014. At that site the discographies had already been removed so it was reasonable to conclude that the project had ended.
Perhaps this thread can now be unpinned in any case?
a) The discographies were never removed and have been available non-stop (minus 56 minutes in 2012, as my provider's logs tell me).
b) Isn't it unpinned? It should be. Without looking at it right now, the whole thread can probably be deleted.
Note: Yes, the redirect was implemented on January 1st (not 2nd) to not have two sites online. Until that very moment, the discographies resided where they had always been (and still do, but the page will redirect you. It's a Google thing, to keep the "juice").
-
My comment was not so strange, regarding the first post in this thread: (I was still a moderator at the time) and also your posts there. My assumption that the project had died was justified in my view, the more so since you didn't reply to my e-mail.
I guess it was a misunderstanding then.
"Inactive" does not mean "gone".
A simple click could have confirmed that.
I guess the "has come to nothing" phrasing was what bothered me.
There was quite a bit of work that went into those.
Doesn't matter!
They're still around for those interested (I don't keep statistics beyond a few months, but 11200 downloads since September of 2013 ... mostly by those asinine pirates, I would think. Although I used to block just about every rip-off site, I have given up. They multiply like fungus. That's why, at least, I haven't uploaded any cover scans or the like. Let those asshats find those for themselves).
-
With no disrespect to anyone, does this thread need to be pinned?
I agree, this project has come to nothing. Pity, it looked promising.
Why to nothing?
That's a very strange comment (that I didn't see before).
a) I have 54 discographies of out-of-print Mosaic boxed sets and Selects online,
b) they have been online without interruption (I just didn't add any for quite a while),
c) and continue to be available?
For free.
I absolutely agree that the thread does not have to be pinned, but ... ?
P.S.: They now reside on deus62.com but have always been available on the other site linked to (and still are, but are redirected to the new site).
-
Yo-Yo Ma - 30 Years Outside the Box is about $120 for 90 CDs at ImportCDs -- http://www.importcds.com/music/1697030/yo-yo-ma-30-years-outside-the-box. Anyone have this set?
I do.
Any questions?
How much of it is classical music? I'm not so keen on crossover.
More details here:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=239239
Well, here's a lsiting of what's in the box (from an Amazon.com review):
01-Robert-White-Sings-Beethoven
02-Saint-Saens-Carnival-of-the-Animals-Variations-on-a-Theme-of-Beethoven,-Op.-35-Polonaise,-Op.-77
03-Saint-Saens-and-Lalo-Cello-Concertos
04-Haydn-Cello-Concertos
05-Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano,-Vol.-1
06-Kreisler,-Paganini
07-Bach-Sonatas-for-Viola-da-Gamba-and-Harpsichord
08-Bach-The-Six-Unaccompanied-Cello-Suites
09-Bach-The-Six-Unaccompanied-Cello-Suites
10-Shostakovich-and-Kabalevsky-Cello-Concertos
11-Bolling-Suite-for-Cello-and-Jazz-Piano-Trio
12-Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano,-Vol.-2
13-Schubert-String-Quintet
14-Japanese-Melodies
15-Elgar-and-Walton-Cello-Concertos
16-Mozart-Divertimento,-K.-563
17-Brahms-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano
18-Strauss-Don-Quixote-Schoenberg-Concerto
19-Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano,-Vol.-3
20-Dvorak-Cello-Concerto
21-Boccherini-Concerto-J.-C.-Bach-Sinfonia-Concertante-and-Grand-Overture
22-Mozart-Adagio-and-Fugue-in-C-Minor-Schubert-String-Quartet-No.-15
23-Schumann-Cello-Concerto-Fantasiestucke
24-Dvorak-Piano-Trios
25-Brahms-Double-Concerto,-Piano-Quartet
26-Shostakovich-Piano-Trio,-Cello-Sonata
27-Barber-and-Britten-Cello-Concertos
28-Strauss-and-Britten-Cello-Sonatas
29-Shostakovich-Quartet-No.-15Gubaidulina-Rejoice!
30-Anything-Goes-Stephane-Grappelli-and-Yo-Yo-Ma-Play-(Mostly)-Cole-Porter
31-Mozart-Serenade-No.-10,-Gran-Partita
32-Brahms-The-Piano-Quartets
33-Brahms-The-Piano-Quartets
34-Prokofiev-and-Rachmaninoff-Cello-Sonatas
35-Tchaikovsky-Gala-in-Leningrad
36-Hush
37-Prokofiev-Sinfonia-Concertante,-Tchaikovsky-Variations
38-Brahms-String-Sextets
39-Brahms-String-Sextets
40-Brahms-Sonatas-for-Cello-and-Piano
41-Schoenberg-Verklarte-Nacht,-String-Trio
42-Faure-Piano-Quartets
43-Made-in-America
44-Dvorak-in-Prague
45-Beethoven-and-Schumann-Piano-Quartets
46-Chopin-Piano-Trio,-Polonaise-brillante,-Cello-Sonata
47-The-New-York-Album
48-Immortal-Beloved
49-Brahms,-Beethoven,-and-Mozart-Clarinet-Trios
50-Dvorak-and-Herbert-Concertos-from-the-New-World
51-Schubert-Trout-Quintet,-Arpeggione-Sonata
52-Goldenthal-Fire-Water-Paper-A-Vietnam-Oratorio
53-Appalachia-Waltz
54-Lieberson-King-Gesar
55-Schubert-and-Boccherini-String-Quintets
56-Yo-Yo-Ma-Premieres
57-Mozart-The-Piano-Quartets
58-From-Ordinary-Things
59-Tan-Dun-Symphony-1997
60-Seven-Years-in-Tibet-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack
61-Mark-OConnor-Liberty
62-Soul-of-the-Tango-The-Music-of-Astor-Piazzolla
63-The-Cello-Suites--Inspired-by-Bach
64-The-Cello-Suites--Inspired-by-Bach
65-Korngold-and-Schmidt-Music-for-Strings-and-Piano-Left-Hand
66-Tavener-The-Protecting-Veil
67-Simply-Baroque
68-Brahms-Piano-Concerto-No.-2,-Cello-Sonata
69-Yo-Yo-Ma-Solo
70-Appalachian-Journey
71-Dvorak-Piano-Quartet,-Romantic-Pieces,-Sonatina
72-Simply-Baroque-II
73-John-Corigliano's-Phantasmagoria
74-Crouching-Tiger,-Hidden-Dragon-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack
75-Yo-Yo-Ma-Plays-the-Music-of-John-Williams
76-Silk-Road-Journeys-When-Strangers-Meet
77-Meyer-and-Bottesini-Concertos
78-Naqoyatsi-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack
79-Paris-La-Belle-Epoque
80-Obrigado-Brazil
81-Obrigado-Brazil-Live
82-Vivaldi-Cello
83-Isaac-Stern-Schubert,-Brahms,-Bach,-Mozart
84-Yo-Yo-Ma-Plays-Ennio-Morricone
85-Silk-Road-Journeys-Beyond-the-Horizon
86-Memoirs-of-a-Geisha-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack
87-New-Impossibilities
88-Yo-Yo-Ma-and-Friends-Songs-of-Joy-and-Peace
89-The-Bonus-Disc-1
90-The-Bonus-Disc-2
Quite a bit of both, classical, crossover ...
-
Yo-Yo Ma - 30 Years Outside the Box is about $120 for 90 CDs at ImportCDs -- http://www.importcds.com/music/1697030/yo-yo-ma-30-years-outside-the-box. Anyone have this set?
I do.
Any questions?
P.S.: Most of the CDs in the set, as far as I recall (I bought this many months ago) are the regular releases packaged in a positively huge boxed set.
I bought it because the separate (re)issues would have cost more than the whole set. I can't remember what I paid for it (around 90 Euro?), but I jumped on it when the set came down from three trillion to affordable.
Soundwise it's more than fine for me.
-
Has anyone had/will anyone have a chance to compare this set to the 2011 (I think it was) Amazon France "Complete Masters"?
I know they were sourced from "lesser" quality material but I've heard the complete set several times and am quite happy with it.
Somehow I get the feeling that this Mosaic set is not going to be such a major improvement (for me) to justify the cost + EU import (punitive) tariff.I'd rather spend those $160 and more on other material this time.
P.S.: I think it was quite legitimate for Mosaic to source some of the material from available CDs. This is important music and if I understood correctly, it would have taken many more years to get hold of the metal masters? Jeez, some of us old fogeys will be dead and gone by then.
-
I was just researching this case in a different context, came upon this (very old) thread and saw that things were left to "hang in the air". Did a search, no more info on this board, it seems, so here's the rest for posterity (because I hate these kinds of cliff hangers I often chance upon around the Internet).
Terry Howard was cleared of all charges: http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/61509/ray-charles-sound-engineer-cleared
In February of 2010 he was killed in a car accident "[...] on the 5 freeway while heading home from Santa Cruz", when (apparently) "[...] another car contacted him causing him to drive off the 5 freeway. He was ejected from the van."
-
Still reading along regularly. Everything is fine.
-
I still have this old 2006 Sony/BMG box ...
-
The last of my heroes to step into the afterlife.
They are all gone now.
I started listening to his music when I was 4 or 5 years old, and I will continue to do so until they wheel me out of the ward, head-first.
Thanks for an entire lifetime's worth of fabulous music and musicianship.
-
Good to hear from you, Volkher ... if you want to get rid of the responsibility for the Mosaic discos, send them to me - I will open my website early next year for discographies, among other things, and could put them up there ...
See my reply elsewhere just a few minutes ago.
Classical music bargains
in Classical Discussion
Posted
Again, thanks Flurin!
Re more recent postings, and that is the real kicker, for those living in the EU, Amazon Italy has had such drastic price reductions these past months that I have, for the first time in my life, dropped my cocktail(s) and fine dinner weekends (only four, to be honest) in favour of securing some of these boxed sets.
I'm surprised (as a "beginner").
I really enjoyed that set (perhaps more than many others).