donz5

Returning late to this thread so this may have already been commented upon, but why was Schaefer on Piano Jazz in the first place? He's never claimed to be a jazz musician. Like or despise the guy, but at least get his name right -- Shaffer. Paul Shaffer.

You raise a good point -- "tone" is in the eye of the reader. If I came across as confrontational, that wasn't my intent. This is where I think face-to-face discussions avoid such confusion, since we can all see our tails wagging. re Art Ensemble of Chicago v Chicago Art Ensemble: You're right, of course. I remember first seeing them in college in 1971 (I think I taped their concert, but it's been a long time ago; I did tape the Taylor/Rivers/Cyrille concert that followed and still have that somewhere in this fire-trap), but I don't remember what they called themselves then. I'll catch up on the Hancock/Tristano thread and see if I can come up with something snarky about Wayne Shorter v. Wayne Marsh.

My work is done here, then.

I'll reply to this as well before I get back to work: Had the thread been about Cecil Taylor's early '70s Jazz Ensemble, or his classic work with Rivers and Cyrille, I wouldn't have chimed in with a list of jazz performers who have appeared on Letterman. Had the thread been about comparing Miles Davis's original Nonet live recordings at Birdland and their subsequent studio recordings with Mulligan's "Rebirth of the Blues" project, I wouldn't have mentioned Letterman. Had the thread been about Dixieland jazz's influence on the Chicago Art Ensemble, I wouldn't have stuck my nose in with Letterman stats. Or had the thread been about Metheney's masterful takedown of Kenny G, I wouldn't have added my two cents on Letterman. But here was a thread specifically about Letterman, and since I kinda knew something about it, I contributed. Before I posted, there were some random comments on various jazz players who had appeared on the show, so I figured I'd provide a more comprehensive list (and, to my great shame, I neglected to include Miles Davis, who performed on the show on December 11, 1987). And then the reactions -- not to the lists but to the provider of those lists. Why that direction ain't my turf.

"The other guy" was prompted by your long-time friend's hyperbolic and factually false claims re jazz having been "boycotted" on the show for "decades" from another forum. "The other guy" then corrected the record. And your long-time friend, to his good credit, eventually retracted his initial "boycott" claim. Why folks here continue to focus on personalities rather than the discussion at hand here escapes me. Belittling me does nothing to further said discussion nor do they alter the facts. And please note that I didn't come here to personally promote anything. Nor have I asked you to do that for me. Beyond that, thanks for the warm welcome. I look forward to participating in other threads that spark my interest. If that's ok with you.

I, for one, will be happy to welcome you when you add to the dialogues here with something other than defenses of David Letterman. Care to join in the music discussions? I was responding to a thread focused specifically on Letterman, but thanks.

I hear that -- when time permits (which is zero at the moment), I'll look for the show and see what transpired. Of course Dave had final say as to what went on his show. But he wasn't Head Writer; that title was designated not to Dave but to one (or, currently two) of his writers.

Naw, then he would've cataloged Letterman's old magazine interviews too. Hey Don, can you cross-reference your database from the NBC years for a show that had Kenny Rogers as a guest, and included an "Ask Mr. Melman" segment? A woman in the audience asked why Letterman didn't book more jazz bands. A transcript of the exchange that followed would be very illuminating to this discussion. November 26, 1985. I'll have to dig out the tape. Don't have a transcript, though. Was the exchange between Dave and the woman, or was it Calvert's prepared response, written by Dave's writers?

Wha ...? C'mon. Anyone with the nads to admit to compiling a Letterman database ... pass the popcorn. And a hearty welcome to donz5 and dalemcfarland both! Thanks, Papsrus. The eagerness of some here to pass judgement, be it the purification of "jazz" or, in my case, me, is pretty startling. I had presumed that folks would be more interested in analyzing the facts as presented rather than try to belittle the person presenting those facts. I had hoped that, especially, jazz fans were better than that. My error. Yes, I've been collecting data on Letterman's shows for quite a while. Those so quick to criticize what was first a hobby that long ago turned into under-the-radar access might recall a certain adage that begins with "Judge not..." Everyone has (or hopefully has) their own particular interests. Good luck to those who dare to expose theirs outside their safety zone. Anyway, thanks again, Papsrus. There it is.

Well, to relieve one and all of my anonymity, my name is Don Giller, and I'm pleased to feel so welcome here.

Strange thread. I don't know who Chris Heim is, nor do I know who Margaret is. My "loss" I guess. "Margaret" is Margaret Ray, a disturbed woman who, in the late '80s, stalked Dave to the point of stealing his car and dropping by his home in the middle of the night. She later committed suicide by lying down in front of an approaching train. Very sad.

See, it's not for me to substantiate your claim. "Margaret" slam noted, yet irrelevant.

Hey, just correcting the false record as claimed in here. Didn't realize that was too "out there." As for the old interviews -- can you provide us with specific quotes? This is just more "it's there... in his own words," but so far no one's actually offered a source.

This "aggressiveness," as you put it, is simply to correct the myth that there's been a "boycott" of jazz musicians on Letterman's programs. And to do that is to document the truth as best as is possible with incontestable evidence. Thus the lists. I don't know whether Dave likes jazz or not, but I would suggest that anyone here likewise has no clue as well, regardless of what one has "heard" on other forums. But that's immaterial; whether he loves, likes, cares less, or detests "jazz" (the word dependent on who's defining it, it seems) has no bearing on the false argument that his shows have "boycotted" jazz for decades. When the facts show quite otherwise.

Selected Jazz musicians on Letterman's CBS show (1993 - present) (source: my Letterman database): Anita Baker (January 30, 1994; April 27, 1995) Gato Barbieri (June 16, 1999: sits in with band throughout show) Tony Bennett (October 18, 1993; May 20, 1994; December 19, 1994; June 21, 1995; November 30, 1995; February 5, 1997; September 30, 1998; November 22, 1999; November 5, 2001) Tony Bennett & Diana Krall (August 31, 2000) Tony Bennett & Elvis Costello (September 25, 2006) Tony Bennett & k.d. lang (February 10, 2003) George Benson (February 17, 1994 Michael Bublé (February 15, 2005; February 10, 2006; August 2, 2007; September 9, 2008; March 22, 2010) Natalie Cole (October 27, 1993; November 15, 1996) Harry Connick, Jr. (December 17, 1993; July 8, 1994; November 30, 1994; May 3, 1995; July 1, 1996; December 18, 1996; November 6, 1997; May 24, 1999; November 14, 2001; February 3, 2004; February 6, 2007; November 25, 2008; September 30, 2009) Bela Fleck (April 13, 1995) Herbie Hancock (February 27, 1995: sits in with band throughout show; October 4, 1995: subbed for Paul Shaffer; November 13, 1998: sits in with band throughout show; April 1, 2002: sits in with band throughout show) Etta James (August 28, 2001; July 17, 2002) Diana Kroll (December 17, 2001; April 26, 2004; September 20, 2006; April 3, 2009) Lyle Lovett (17 shows, from October 3, 1994 to November 20, 2009; includes His Large Band) Branford Marsalis (June 12, 1995) Wynton Marsalis (April 5, 1994; May 10, 1995; August 5, 1998; May 13, 2009) Pat Metheney (January 16, 1995: sits in with band throughout show) David "Fathead" Newman (February 25, 1998: sits in with band throughout show; January 22, 2008: sits in with band throughout show) John Pizzarelli (January 8, 1997; August 1, 2000) Tito Puente (March 7, 1995: sits in with band throughout show) Sade (December 20, 2000; April 3, 2001; February 9, 2010) David Sanborn (20 appearances; for most of them, sits in with band throughout show) Arturo Sandoval (March 7, 1995: sits in with band throughout show; November 14, 2000: sits in with band throughout show) Tom Scott (August 6, 1996: sits in with band throughout show) Doc Severinsen (January 14, 1995: sits in with band throughout show; March 22, 1995: sits in with band throughout show; January 31, 2005, with Tommy Newsom and Ed Shaunessy) Lew Soloff (August 16-19, 1994: subbed for Tom Malone; February 15-16, 1999: subbed for Al Chesnovitz) Alan Toussaint: April 23, 1997; January 13, 1998; June 9, 1998; September 7, 2005; June 6, 2006 -- for all: sits in with band throughout show) Tom Waits (September 27, 1999; May 8, 2002; September 28, 2004; November 27, 2006) Grover Washington, Jr. (May 12, 1997: sits in with band throughout show; December 8, 1997: sits in with band throughout show) Charlie Watts Quintet (July 10, 1996) Tony Williams (January 28, 1997: sits in with band throughout show) That's quite a boycott of jazz artists. Thanks for the welcome, Free! One of my favorite Art Blakey LPs is his "African Beat" project.

I've "twisted" no examples, Christiern. Your qualifications on what constitutes "legitimate" jazz only goes to confirm my initial comment.

The public record I'm talking about were his own interview statements in print. Maybe one day I'll remember where I read them, but probably not. I really don't care anymore. Peace. Then perhaps maybe one day your claim will be substantiated. Until then, it isn't. The extensive list of jazz musicians I documented constitutes 10% of Letterman's NBC shows. A far cry from "famously boycott[ing] jazz from his show for decades" as you earlier claimed. Get back to us when you compile a similar percentage for all other late night talk shows in the '80s and early '90s. And let us know when you find Sadao Watanabe, Olantunji, and McCoy Tyner performing on Carson. It helps to back up one's claims with actual, real facts instead of trumped-up hyperbolic fiction.

DaleMcFarland writes: "No chip on my shoulder. Just thought it was something this forum would be interested in. Whether you already knew it or not, Letterman's dislike for jazz is a matter of public record. ("Passionately HATES" was my own hyperbole and I retract it.) He has said so himself in magazine interviews. He has disrespected it on his show with side comments and pre-written comedy bits. And it has been referenced online: http://forums.allabo...read.php?t=3888 http://www.jazzweekl...iews/lucoff.htm (see paragraph 7) "I won't spend any more time substantiating this FACT." Dale, your "FACT" consists of two other folks who claim that "Dave hates Jazz." That's not "public record"; it's just two other opinions. To others who dismiss the list of jazz players who have appeared on the show as not "jazz" enough (Herbie Hancock? Seriously?), good luck on the purification project. Excluding all you feel aren't up to your standards of what constitutes "jazz" will do nothing to broaden its appeal. Here's a selected list of jazz musicians (regardless of one's purity test) that have appeared just on Letterman's "Late Night" program (1982-1993) (Source: my Letterman database): Tony Bennett (May 6, 1986; November 5, 1987; July 23, 1991; November 4, 1992) George Benson (April 11, 1985) Ruben Blades (July 9, 1985; August 28, 1985; January 8, 1991) Stanley Clarke (February 4, 1987; October 12, 1990) Harry Connick, Jr. (February 2, 1989) Chick Corea (March 25, 1985) Paquito D'Rivera (July 22, 1985 Sammy Davis, Jr. (September 16, 1985; May 19, 1987; June 9, 1989) Stan Getz (November 13, 1985) Dizzy Gillespie (October 2, 1984) Herbie Hancock (December 11, 1984) Al Hirt (July 19, 1988; September 13, 1988)\ Freddie Hubbard (April 24, 1984) Etta James (February 14, 1989; August 7, 1990) Quincy Jones (December 11, 1985( Stanley Jordan (September 26, 1985; February 15, 1989) Earl Klugh (January 29, 1986) Lyle Lovett (August 1, 1988; September 15, 1989; August 16, 1990; February 21, 1991; April 7, 1992; August 25, 1992; January 22, 1993; June 16, 1993) Herbie Mann (December 6, 1984) Tania Maria (January 26, 1987; March 15, 1989) Branford Marsalis (January 15, 1988; October 7, 1988) Hugh Masekela (February 23, 1988) Bobby McFerrin (November 16, 1988) Pat Metheney (April 25, 1990) Babatundi Olantunji (June 18, 1987) Les Paul (October 1, 1987) Tito Puente (February 26, 1986; February 7, 1992) David Sanborn (117 appearances, both sitting in with the band throughout the show and own music segment) Diane Schuur (September 6, 1990) Doc Severinsen (June 17, 1985) Toots Thielemans (August 11, 1982; July 27, 1983; May 9, 1984; August 19, 1985) Allen Toussaint (April 14, 1987; May 13, 1992) McCoy Tyner (February 19, 1985) Tom Waits (December 21, 1983; February 6, 1986; October 16, 1987; October 5, 1988) Grover Washington, Jr. (November 23, 1983) Sadao Watanabe (March 21, 1984) And a word on Paul Shaffer and jazz: Interview in "Fi" Magazine, March 1998: Paul: I actually gigged with McCoy [Tyner]. He had a record out at the time with string orchestrations and some vocals by the late Phyllis Hyman, around '83, '84.* Slightly r&b vocal tunes, a little calypso, and a big dose of McCoy. For this gig they needed somebody to replicate on synthesizer some of the orchestrations from the album for four shows at the Bottom Line. So there I was playing with the great McCoy Tyner. I have always been interested in jazz, could never really play it, didn't consider myself a jazz plyer. In college, though my passion was soul and r&b, my fascination was jazz, especially modal jazz asa played by John Coltrane. * The Bottom Line gig occurred August 6 and 7, 1982 (source: Keyboard, September 1983, p. 52).