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soundenvelope
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On 5/31/2021 at 6:41 PM, Chuck Nessa said:
"The set has been on my desk for a few days but I have been otherwise involved. Maybe I will jump in tomorrow afternoon while Stephen Haynes is here."
This just proves the fact that I am overdue to visit you and Buffalo, Chuck. Hope you and the family are faring well around the 'big snow storm.'
And the subject at hand - the recording. I have not listened, though I would, I suppose. Though I did 'study' with Professor Graves, I have not followed his music past a certain time period. Have always found the price point on the label to be high. Perhaps if I understood how/if that high price signifies income for the participating artists, I might be convinced to buy in and purchase. I have the trio with Enrico Rava, Cyrille and Parker. Joe Morris gave me his copy, suggested I listen to it, the the sound reminded him of certain things/people. Anyway, I am off topic. Or maybe not. -
On 10/12/2022 at 10:45 AM, clifford_thornton said:
"talking with Bill and Stephen Haynes helped me to really appreciate Miles' electric music beyond "jazz-rock fusion" and in terms of sound/orchestration, whatever the instrumentation."
After years of not looking at Organissmo, I see this. Thanks for calling my name (and Bill's) Clifford.
Two thoughts:
We can't discuss On The Corner - the sessions or the edited album - without calling up Paul Buckmaster's name and understanding his role/involvement with the project. Miles had a gift for gathering together players/arrangers all of his life. OTC is no different. Dig this: Paul Buckmaster / 2009 Interview.
And can we please - at the risk of causing agitation in the thread - move away from the subjective when engaging with recorded work? We all get to like or dislike music. I am a fan of the subjective - particularly when I simply do NOT want to talk about someone's work. Can you dig it? But engaging with the work - doing the work of the listener on whatever level any of us are able/prepared to do - is something else. That sort of conversation/thread is something useful. Ideally, we all learn from each other.
Love to you all where/whoever you are/may be. Keep listening! -
Sharing news of an exciting - and unusual - new exhibition at Zürcher Gallery, New York. This is visual art created by eight musicians: Marion Brown, Bill Dixon (rarely seen lithographs and woodcuts), Douglas R. Ewart, Ted Joans, Oliver Lake, Matana Roberts, Cecile McLorin Salvant and Wadada Leo Smith. The show is up for two months: November 10 - January 10. If you can't make it to see the show, I suggest you pick up the catalog ($20) as it is a beautiful thing.
Link to the exhibition, including a link to a PDF of the catalog. The print version is far better! -
RE: PomegranateWanted to share the news that my new album, Pomegranate is now in the preview and pre-order stage and will see release on June 9. Thanks to all of you who supported the process of creating this work, and thanks to all of you who have has patience with the rate of speed of our production schedule. We have learned much during this dance and are already stirring the pots on a new project/release as well as the start of my own imprint, Sound Envelope (initially, for the release of unreleased archival material) in collaboration with Ed Ricart and New Atlantis Records.
Preview in Burning Ambulance
http://burningambulance.com/2015/05/08/stephen-haynes/Pre-Order and Information at New Atlantis Records
http://newatlantisrecords.com/product/na-cd-015 -
Wanted to let folks know that my long-awaited recording, Pomegranate, on New Atlantis Records, will arrive during the first week of June 2015. Pre-order is already available on a number of sites (e.g., Downtown Music Gallery). Content is winging it's way to critics/writers, and I am in the midst of mailing packages to 100 Indiegogo supporters.
Re: the delay - long story short - we opted to move the release back a bit in order to better utilize a special promotion effort on the part of our domestic/international distributors.
I don't buy from DMG. Who else will have it? Squidco?
Squidco has Pomegranate available as a pre-order, if I am not mistaken. And yes, you should be able to pre-order from the label. Thanks for your interest in the music, and for your abiding patience with the production/release cycle.
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Pomegranate
New Atlantis Records
Stephen Haynes/cornets
Joe Morris/guitar
Ben Stapp/tuba
William Parker/contrabass violin, sintir, bass shakuhachi
Warren Smith/drums and percussion, marimba
I Sillage
II Mangui Fii Reek (I Am Still Here)
III Pomegranate
IV Becoming
V Crepuscular
VI Odysseus (Lashed to the Mast)
All tracks, Stephen Haynes, Somnambulist Music, BMI
March 15 & 16, 2013
Firehouse 12, New Haven, CT
Studio and live (#3 & #4)
Recorded and mastered by Nick Lloyd
Produced by Stephen Haynes
This project is a dedication to Bill Dixon: teacher, colleague and friend.
Wanted to let folks know that my long-awaited recording, Pomegranate, on New Atlantis Records, will arrive during the first week of June 2015. Pre-order is already available on a number of sites (e.g., Downtown Music Gallery). Content is winging it's way to critics/writers, and I am in the midst of mailing packages to 100 Indiegogo supporters.
Re: the delay - long story short - we opted to move the release back a bit in order to better utilize a special promotion effort on the part of our domestic/international distributors.
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I am considering making the move away from partnerships with labels and starting to release my own work independently. Who do you all recommend for a good CD replication company. I am familiar with Disc Maker. Are there others worth paying attention to?
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Are you getting a cut from the sales of Joe's book?
Having a cut would be grand, Paul!
Joe is a good friend as well as a musical colleague. We co-curate a series here in Hartford, CT, Improvisations, at Real Art Ways. Joe is also a member of my trio, Parrhesia, with Warren Smith as well as my new quartet (a 2-bass project) w/Joe, William Parker and Warren Smith. The quartet will record in March 2013 at Firehouse 12 in New Haven.
I do feel that Perpetual Frontier is quite important on a number of levels, and that folks need to hear/know about it. Not just for musicians, the work opens up doorways that will help listeners apprehend the music, what it is, how it works, in a manner that will enhance the listening and aesthetic process.
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The fact is that very few musicians are able to consistently make a living performing. Traditionally, survival has always meant/included teaching for those who are able. With the growth of the jazz education system in colleges/universities, a lot of work and, sometimes, economic security has been afforded. Are all of the folks who are teaching practicing artists? Should they be?
Good teaching/mentoring, wherever it occurs (on the 'scene' or in the schools) is what is needed. More troubling than anything else in all of this institutionalizing of the music and how it is taught is the conservatism that rises through the codifying of pedagogy.
The music does not fit neatly in a box. And teaching should not have the effect of stifling the growth and development of the music. Tradition should be a living thing.
For me, the most interesting work being done with teaching the music comes from Joe Morris. His new book, Perpetual Frontier: The Properties of Free Music will change things.
Read about it here: http://www.pointofdeparture.org/PoD39/PoD39PerpetualFrontier.html
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This is not 'new' news, but I felt the topic deserved it's own thread.
Bill Dixon's Odyssey, an artist designed/produced/assembled box set is available again.
This limited edition (1000) featuring six CDs, primarily solo trumpet works, along with soft-bound booklets(2) of Dixon's art work and writings (by and pertaining to Dixon) is numnbered and signed by the artist.
There are no plans to reissue Odyssey once these copies are gone.
There are two sites, approved by Bill Dixon's estate, that distribute Odyssey.
Here is a link to the Odyssey sales pages:
http://www.musicstack.com/item/5632967
http://www.discogs.com/buy/CD/Bill-Dixon-Odyssey/54873157?ev=bp_titl
Read more, along with track listings here:
http://www.allmusic.com/album/solo-works-odyssey-mw0000984012
We have not yet built a new website for Bill Dixon and his work. We are engaged in an exhaustive pre-archival cataloging of his music, scores, notes, etc.
For now, the best place to stay abreast of developments is the Facebook page for Bill Dixon.
Thanks for your continued interest in Bill and his work.
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The limited edition ODYSSEY is now on sale exclusively at these two sites:
http://www.discogs.com/seller/Vogel-Music-Sales and http://www.bird-land-sales.musicstack.com/
It is worth knowing, for those of you who are paying attention to this, that Odyssey is a limited-edition product, created (and assembled), signed and numbered by the artist.
There are no plans to re-issue Odyssey once it is gone.
Bill Dixon was a tireless documenter of his own work. You get a taste of this with Odyssey.
He left alot of unissued music, ranging from solo to orchestral work. And that's just the music.
Stay tuned for details.
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Got a letter last week from Triple Point Records:
"...Next on the horizon is a 5-LP boxed edition of hitherto unreleased 1964-65 recordings
by the New York Art Quartet (John Tchicai, Roswell Rudd, Milford Graves, etc
This is exciting news. The ensemble with Milford Graves in it features some of his finest work, and the whole group is at the top of their game. I love this period of Roswell's work.
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Try Aldo Sinesio on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/aldo.sinesio
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"It's a style - it's to do with how you manufacture a position which will be attended to. It calls for a well-ramified response and, when it gets something else, the point of view it represents remains dominant."
One simply wishes the roots and branches would speak up a bit more loudly regarding the invective and discourteous speech.
To reiterate, that sort of behavior, fundamentally self-indulgent, is never okay. For me, it is a form of violence.
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..Dixon was a quirky black dandy with an excessively high opinion of his own philosophy (and yes, I've heard him speak for hours)-- that's COOL!! But it ain't a whole lot more and sure is shit ain't a patch on hundreds of 20th century composers (that you ignore), instrumentalists (that you ignore) or, as trans-formal conceptualist, ELVIS PRESLEY (that you lie to yourself about).
Reading this reminds me why I spend so little time in music forums.
I've nothing against differing opinions, humor or even occasional sarcasm used in a 'community' context. And, while I do not necessarily mind the heat, being discourteous is never hip.
Invective should never be welcome here.
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I wanna hear about playing with The Dells. I DIG The Dells!
The way the Dells work is that they have lead contractors regionally who hire the supporting band for a given leg of a tour. Trombonist Al Patterson called me for a series of dates around the time that I moved to Connecticut.
Players included EJ Allen, Craig Harris and Don Byron (on baritone saxophone) among others. Getting to hear and play on Stand in my Corner left an indelible impression on me.
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Deeds, not words. And yes, I have played, and improvised, and done so freely. Lots. Not saying there aren't processes involved in getting to where you want to go, but at the end of the day it's not something that gets done by talking about it.
Again, nothing against Joe Morris or his book, but as somebody who's spent more than a few hours conversating with fellow players about the whys & how of what we do and want to do and are going to do and are doing and have done...most of that talk ends up being so much pep-talk and/or navel-gazing. And the lion's share of the actual DOING involves playing in rel time.
The way to get it done is to do it. If there's stuff you don't know yet, go to where the answer is, figure it out and then walk away back home to get it together yourself. It's way too easy to talk/think yourself into a place where everything you do matters because it's "creative" and/or "free". Then when it comes time to play, OOOH!!!!! MAGIC!!!!!
Uh...hardly. If there was really that much magic and freedom in the world, it would not be the world that it is.
Good to hear a bit more of your voice, and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Thanks for confirming the fact that you are a musician actively engaged in unraveling the mystery. Believe me, I do share your distaste for much of what passes as teaching/discourse in the music. That's why I find Joe Morris and his work to be such a breath of fresh air. And I would guess that Joe would agree with you you that there is no substitute for practice/working on the thing you love/wish to create. I think we all agree on that one, my friend. I will say, and I would be surprised if you did not agree with this, that, after one does the work, a necessary next step is reflection/self-analysis on/of what one just did. The work/process of working has to be balanced to be effective. And it is clear that you very much do think about what you are engaged in and share your thoughts with others on the path. And you are right, some of that works and some of that most definitely does not work. And there are reasons for that failure waiting to be apprehended.
How would one hear your work?
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Without having read the book - I would like to - my feeling is that Joe's approach is akin to teaching abstract painting. Though abstract painting might not have the same visual properties as representational painting, it still has a variety of principles that can be taught in order to give the student a very wide array of methodological choices. That doesn't mean the student will be boxed in, and nor does it preclude the student following their own path. I don't think Joe's book or course would deviate from the Dixonian dictum, "you start from where you are - you'll get to the rest in time."
Great analogy, Clifford. Anything that is physical and aesthetic involves technique. And that is the point here. For far too long, the tools for making, using Bill Dixon's language, 'this music,' have been either mystified, mis-taught or never shared in a pragmatic functional (for thought or action) fashion. Joe Morris has opened wide a door to the room of free music (be sure refer to Joe's definition of this label as opposed to free jazz) for anyone to use/have access to.
As an active artist, I can't tell you how many folks I have witnessed laboring under false assumptions/knowledge regarding this music, how it is made and what the significance of the work is/will be over time. As a former student, I can tell you how difficult it was/is to find anyone, particularly an artist, who is willing and, more importantly, able to teach what they know/do in a direct fashion that can be immediately be put to use.
Joe Morris is an American original. What he is engaged in with Perpetual Frontier will change everything.
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Here's an even simpler method - know what you want, know what you don;t want, and proceed according, never forgetting how much you don;t know, but then deciding where/if some/all of it fits/doesn;t fit, and just....keep on going.
In time, you an write your own book and have you own methodology, but then you might start to see the folly from teaching individual freedom instead of just living it and making sure it gets in the water supply. How do we play free music? Like this? Like THIS? Noooo, LIKE THIS!!! That doesn't feel right to me. Well. that must be because you're not free enough yet. Here, let;s work on freeing you up. And so on.
Alright. While it might seem silly to respond to your comment/thoughts, let's give it a try. I am assuming that you have nothing against conversation and are willing to exchange ideas.
First, a few questions: to you make music/play an instrument? If yes, do you improvise with others? Clearly you have spent time considering what free improvisation means/feels like to you.
Have you ever studied with anyone formally, in/out of a school setting?
One more question on the way out the door to weed my garden: did you read Joe's article? If you did, I would be surprised if you did not find something that has resonance with the stance you are sharing here.
Let me give you an example:
"Free music is an art form that has been made by individuals who operated without regard for critical or institutional approval, who invented the way they play their instruments and invented platforms on which to play that music, based on whatever aesthetic value they thought mattered to them. The idea of that undiscovered place, one that enlightens someone or enhances the life of the player or listener, is not a finished concept. It’s a perpetual frontier. By determining to leave things open-ended in concept and still allow for a better understanding of how things can be done, not just why things should be done, we allow for the possibility that more will emerge. Musical skills are like language. Fluency in speech allows for better expression. An informed imagination combined with a fluent tongue makes for eloquent statements that might help us all to evolve beyond where we are to someplace new again."
I am looking forward to the conversation. Always great to have an exchange with someone who is passionate about what they believe. Seriously.
Enjoy the day.
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After reading the link I have to say I enjoyed reading Joe Morris's writing about his experience and teaching of free music as much as I do his playing.
It would be interesting to hear in the near future from musicians who work through some of the methodologies and personal idioms his book looks to grasp.
It was also interesting to read him speak of the mystic/spiritual aspect of improvisation as sometimes being an impediment to inclusiveness and access to free music expression.
An attempt to bridge the gap between the philosophy and something categorisable as procedural methodology seems like a worthy thing to do.
Joe has been teaching this method, field-testing it if you will, at New England Conservatory and Longy School of Music of Bard College over the past two years. The book was developed through this work. And yes, there are quite a few students who have put the methodology into direct practice outside of academia.
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An attempt to bridge the gap between the philosophy and something categorisable as procedural methodology seems like a worthy thing to do.
Why?
Simple answer: in order to learn how to work/create free music. Not to be flip, but the truth will set you free.
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"In writing this book, I changed from a linear perspective that perpetuates a rigid tradition-based understanding to a more useful, flexible and accurate ontological one. I use the term free music as an umbrella term in place of the many terms that signify a period or specific body of work, all of which were lumped together under the term “jazz” and then shuttled away. I blame this syndrome on the jazz industry, which has consistently devalued, maligned, disregarded, ignored, or relegated free music to the lowest place, assuming it to be unsellable. Ironically, innovation – the very thing that makes all of this music historically significant – is exactly what devalues it by industry and institutional standards.
Rather than waste my time fighting this revisionist and ignorant perspective, I chose to not use jazz as a name to describe any material in my book. I use methodology because free music has formal elements and informal ones, each reliant on the other to become the whole. Free music is used as a name for any work in which the artist has set the criteria free from critical approval, industry or institutional oversight; a context in which the artist decides if that criteria was met, in which the player or players have freedom to express themselves through improvisation, using the particulars imbedded within the operational methodology in use. This definition of free music does not exclude improvised music that relies on harmony. Instead it views the use of harmony as a device within a methodology. So Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker are free music musicians, as is Anthony Braxton. In free music, artists synthesize, interpret, and invent material. But invention to some degree is the goal. And invention can be accomplished by the discovery of a new synthesis or new interpretation."
Joe Morris
Point of Departure
Issue 39
May, 2012
Joe Morris' upcoming book, Perpetual Frontier: The Properties of Free Music, will change things. Joe's pedagogy is clear and deep, not to mention effective.
Read Joe Morris previewing his upcoming book at Point of Departure:
http://www.pointofdeparture.org/PoD39/PoD39PerpetualFrontier.html
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Getting back on topic:
I will avoid joining in the the back and forth regarding Bill Dixon's significance as a composer. The obvious reply would be that to have that debate one/we would first have to agree with the parameters/definition of being a composer and whether the term/definition in question was germane to a certain tradition of music.
What I wanted to add to the thread was a feeling of sadness regarding the incomplete quality of the Cam Jazz box sets, particularly in the case of Bill Dixon's ouevre. Anyone who has the original vinyl will understand my point, particularly in the case of In Italy, Volumes I & II and November 1981. Both releases has considerable printed material included.
I may have to scan what I have and/or transcribe the material and post it on Bill Dixon's Facebook page.
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Nessa Records is now on Facebook. The page is still a work in progress, but should, when complete, solve some of the problems around ease of access to the label and Chuck Nessa's singular body of work. Let us know what you think, and help us to connect with folks by telling your friends/colleagues about this development.
The Art of Counterpoint: 8 Musicians Make Art
in Musician's Forum
Posted
Karl-Michael (yes? - or Horst?)
What a delight to hear from you in the context of the show - and to learn about the work that you are engaged in. Thank you for sharing the visual work and introducing me to the site.
Stephen Haynes