1stpress

This is exactly the type of input I'm looking for, please elaborate! When you say, "but compared to what came later from some of them", what specific albums are you referencing? I can't afford to buy each artists full catalog, so I'm trying to hone in on each artists least structured work. What would you recommend for Shepp and the aforementioned list of guys if I want to hear their most far out, experimental stuff?

Out of the albums that you mentioned, which would you say are the least structured? San Francisco, probably, or rather the bonus album therein. But plenty of stuff on those in your list is pretty structured (Dolphy and Tyner for one, and Ornette's c major music, too, really). Donauseschingen certainly is a good suggestion, too! I don't see "lack of structure" as a point of interest, rather how structure (or form) is used, how tradition is being expanded and stretched into new areas (which is maybe why "Mama Too Tight" is my favourite Shepp, you can hear Ellington in there ... and which is why ultimately I prefer Mingus or Dolphy or Ornette to, say, Charles Gayle, Frank Wright and others that are more on the berserk end of the spectrum. As for "the more dissonant ..." - different genre, but try some Phill Niblock (make sure no animals are harmed, though). At the present time, a lack of traditional structure and consonance is not only a point of interest for me, it's my primary interest. I'm currently interested in hearing the least traditional, least structured offerings in each artist's catalog. I'm less interested in hearing a representative sampling of Artie Shepp's work than I am in hearing his least structured albums.

Your comments are not helpful in the least; they actually come off as quite smug. His music is already compartmentalized... into albums. I'm trying to determine which of those albums delve furthest into the arena of experimental dissonance of tones and rhythms. Can you hear the glaring differences between "Blue Train" and "Interstellar Space" and understand why a person might more interested in hearing one over the other at a given point in time?

Out of the albums that you mentioned, which would you say are the least structured?

I've read that Archie Shepp is one of the guys to take a listen to if you're into free jazz. What are his most experimental albums? Below are some albums that I have in heavy rotation right now. I'm hoping he has something in that ballpark. The more dissonant the better. Ceceil Taylor - Conquistador Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity John Coltrane - Ascension Eric Dolphy - Out There Ornette Coleman - This is Our Music Pharoah Sanders - Tauhid McCoy Tyner - Extensions Elvin Jones - Poly Currents

Ornette Coleman "The Shape of Jazz to Come" 2010 Rhino pressing. Cut from the original analog masters by Bernie Grundman (BG in the dead wax). The sound is PHENOMENAL, it's just PERFECT. I've never been more impressed by a modern pressing. This thing is a blessing; I can't stop playing it! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003UCPE38/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I find that track to be quite intriguing. The clip below exemplifies the type of jazz I'd like to avoid (at least for now). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-x4J7LGfMI

OH my LORD! Would this one work better for you?

Just picked up a new copy of the Nate Morgan on Dust Grooves for $13.29 shipped. It's the only place that I could find it, it seems to be quite rare on CD or any other format.

I'll look into that as well, thanks. I got my Prince Lasha & Sonny Simmons Cry! this week, it's fantastic. I can't wait for more of these recommendations to start showing up in my mailbox.

Going on the multiple recommendations, I just talked a guy on eBay into lowering the price of his NM Billy Harper "Black Saint" first pressing from $30.00 to $20.00 Buy it Now. I can't wait to hear it in its entirety. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ITALY-Original-1975-1st-BLACK-SAINT-LP-BSR-0001-BILLY-HARPER-/360719866280?nma=true&si=q%252F0iBgC6FukD3A0yWur2LxGcif4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_707wt_1154

Who mastered the Speakers corner Black Saint and Mingus 5X? Has anyone heard them?

I would recommend checking out Ravi Coltrane, though I'm not sure if many (or any) of his albums are on vinyl. In a similar "spirituality" vein as A Love Supreme I would recommend Pharaoh Sanders' Impulse! albums... Karma may be a good place to start, though it is leaning on the free side. Another fantastic post bop album is Sonny Rollins East Broadway Run Down. I've actually been looking into Karma, I'm holding out for the vinyl right now but first pressings rarely pop up on eBay in decent shape and there doesn't seem to be a decent reissue. I just might have to go with the CD.

I don't own it on vinyl, I've actually never heard it all the way through. After having it recommended to me I listened to a bit of it on YouTube and it seems amazing. What little research I've done into Mingus suggests that this may be his best album.I rarely shell out $50 for the 45rpm, it has to be a real masterpiece. That being said, I don't want to waste the money on a CD or inferior vinyl if this record is of one those masterpieces.

Has anyone compared the Analogue Productions 45rpm pressing to the Speakers Corner version?

Just placed my order, I can't wait to hear it. As for all of the other recommendations, I'm in the process of detemining which titles can be had on quality vinyl at a reasonable price before ordering any cds. I don't mind cds, but if there is affordable quiality vinyl available I'll always go with that and make my own cd if need be. To bad it can't be done the other way around.

DEFINITELY the former. I wan't to hear some real exploration and risk taking, no Coltrane influence necessary. For me the only cut-off point that I've found so far is anything that sounds like Coltrane's post "A Love Supreme" stuff. I can't get with "Meditations", "Ascension", or anything that. But I would much rather listen records like Eric Dolphy's "Out to Lunch" or Elvin Jones' "Puttin it Together" than a straight bop record on which the musicians are just safely showing off their chops.

I can't thank you guys enough for all of the recommendations, you're going to destroy my vinyl budget.

I'm new to the forum, and there seem to be so many knowledgeable people here that I'm hoping for some recommendations. I got into jazz when I was introduced to Charlie Parker; I fixated on his music for several years. From Parker I progressed to Coltrane; I've fixated on his music for even longer. I consider "A Love Supreme" to be my favorite recording of all time, but I don't like Trane's subsequent free jazz stuff, or any other jazz that completely lacks cohesion. I'm also quite fond of "Live at Birdland" and "Impressions". I'm a fan of albums like McCoy Tyner's "The Real McCoy", Elvin Jones' "Puttin It All Together", and Eric Dolphy's "Out to Lunch". Now that I've bored you to death, I guess in simpler terms I'm looking for some post-bop, pre-free jazz, non-Coltrane recomendations.

They reinstated me over at Steve Hoffman. Apparently they thought I was Hutton!

I couldn't agree with you more, I have that record it sound great. I'm actually asking about the other "Coltrane" though: http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/55936/John_Coltrane-Coltrane-45_RPM_Vinyl_Record

I was just banned over at the Steve Hoffman site for asking this question, so discouraging. Wow, I can't even ask a question about one of their records, I guess it's strictly a worship site. Your membership profile is still up at the Hoffman board, so are you sure they banned you? They did delete your thread about the Coltrane record, though; it doesn't appear when you click on "postings" in your profile. Positive, when I try to log in I get a big red "You have been banned!" warning. Not a very welcoming site, I wasn't even critical of Hoffman or Gray. I actually hold them both in high regard, that's why I posed the question!

I was just banned over at the Steve Hoffman site for asking this question, so discouraging. Wow, I can't even ask a question about one of their records, I guess it's strictly a worship site.

I was considering buying the John Coltrane 45rpm Analogue Productions "Coltrane" until I found this review. Is it really as bad as this guy claims? He found the 45rpm "A Love Supreme" to be superb, but thought that this one was awful: http://robertmusic.blogspot.com/2009/10/more-thoughts-on-analogue-productions.html#!/2009/10/more-thoughts-on-analogue-productions.html

To expensive given that I want at least a NM copy. That would sink me well over $100.00 each even in stereo. If it were Elvin Jones or Eddie Harris I'd hunt down a first pressing, but with guys like Coltrane, it's to darn pricey. I don't mind a modern pressing as long as it's well mastered from original tapes. Sometimes they even sound better!