tartine78

For the Baden Powell fans, I forgot to mention the two discs he did with Stephane Grapelli "La Grande Reunion" vol. 1 and 2. Jazz interpretations of bossa nova standards. Grapelli is a bit more present than Baden and takes more solos.

Thanks for the Morelenbaum(s) recommendation, this is quite a different approach to bossa that is welcome. I just tried her "Berimbau" album, the title song is magnificiently interpreted. Perhaps a bit too much of eletronic effects, but the whole is still very satisfying. Will check the others you recommend ASAP.

Now for the real jazz-bossa nova stuff, here is a list of the albums I know of (there are probably more out there, since everyone made his own bossa nova album in the early sixties) For starters, the ones that more or less completely miss the point: - Duke Ellington "Afro bossa". Clearly not bossa nova ! - Miles Davis "Quiet Nights". You would think that Miles' dreamy trumpet and Gil Evans sohpisticated arrangements would thrive with bossa nova, right ? No wonder no one mentions this album when speaking about Miles...To me, this is an awkward compromise between Miles' style and bossa nova and for that reason it is not satisfying. - Paul Winter Sextet "Jazz meets the bossa nova". Clearly not bad, but no one ever takes a solo here, so it does not qualify as jazz. A bit easy. - Charlie Rouse "Bossa Nova Bacchanal". Overall a good album, but bossa nova is mixed with afro-cuban and calypso melodies, which give a little "pot pourri" impression The original jazz bossa nova material that everone tried to copy... - Getz & Byrd "Jazz Samba". Byrd's fast and incisive style constrasts so well with Stan's mellow tone. - Getz/Gilberto. The holy grail: Gilberto's soft singing is in perfect harmony with Getz's solos The copies... - Getz's many sequels "Jazz Samba encore", "Big band bossa nova", "Best of two worlds"...etc. Overall quite good but not as good as the two above. Sometimes you have to know when to stop... - Coleman Hawkins "Desafinado". I have trouble not falling asleep listening to this one, nothing much happens here that wasn't heard somewhere else. - Kenny Burell "Lotsa bossa nova". This one too is a bit tiresome, the comparison with other bossa nova guitar players are not very favourable to Burell (Hall, Byrd) - Lionel Hampton "Bossa nova jazz". Minimalist title and programme. What more can be said ? It's cool to hear vibes on bossa, but that's about it. The creative ones, who decided to add a little something to stand out: - Herbie Mann "Do the bossa nova with Herbie Mann" & "Brazil, bossa nova and blues". Mann did not go the easy way and travelled to Rio to record with local musicians the first one (including Jobim and Mendes !) and the result is authentic yet jazzy bossa nova. The second was recorded a bit earlier and feature vibraphone and guitar on mostly famous tunes, for a good result. Those two will satisfy purists of bossa nova style and those interested to hear something else than a mellow saxophone... - Cannonball Adderley "Cannonball's bossa nova". Recorded with Sergio Mendes' group, this one features mostly original tunes and the group devilers really authentic bossa nova. Cannonball is at his best, but his playing remains more bluesy than bossa nova...some may find this is a complete mismatch, while some will enjoy the contrast. - Almeida & Shank "Brazilliance vol. 1 and 2". This is not really bossa nova (it was recorded before bossa nova was created) but it has a strong brazilian flavour nonetheless and most of the ingredients are here. Still, there's somehting a bit different that makes it stand out. Note : Shank did another one later with Fischer that would fall in the previous copy category - Dave Bruebeck "Bossa nova USA". Perhaps a bit too creative... it's not pure bossa, nor pure jazz...and gives me mixed feelings in the end - Ike Quebec "Soul Samba". A perfect combination of bossa nova with a more bluesy sound. Burell's guitar is a real plus here. - Paul Desmond (with Jim Hall) "Take Ten" and "Bossa Nova Antigua". To me, this is the greatest achivement in jazz bossa nova: Paul's dreamy, very light way of blowing in his alto combined with Hall's ethereal sound gets as close to bossa nova nirvana as it gets. In addition, most of the tunes here are original creations. Note: Desmond did two more with larger ensembles "Summertime" and "From the hot afternoon" which spoils the fun IMO.

I think this is getting a bit off the original scope, but for those here who enjoy a lot non-bossa nova Brazilian guitar playing, I strongly recommend putting your hands on "choro" music. "Choro" is the traditional music from Rio, sort of the ancestor of samba. It is more quiet than samba and can require quite virtuoso playing....its golden age was in the twenties to forties, with composers such as Jacob do Bandolim, Benedito Lacerda and the most famous of all Pixinguinha. The movie soundatrack from the movie Brasileirinho (2005) or the film itself (it is a documentary about "choro") is an excellent starting point. I only mention this because Baden Powell is originally a "choro" guitar player (and played this genre throughout his life) Good luck finding it, I think it is out of print... The "best of" his French years of recording however is easy to find ("O universo musical de Baden Powell', 2 CD set)

The whole afro-sambas were recorded entirely twice: the first time in 1966 with Quarteto em Cy and Vinicius de Moraes, and a second time in 1990 with Quarteto em Cy (again) I suspect however that there are much more versions of certain songs out there (Baden Powell has released many albums both in France and Brazil with re-issues and new covers...) If you simply look at the track length of Canto de Ossanha/Xango on various discs, you'll be surprised... To come back to the afro-sambas, both versions are recommendable (the first one has more spiritual power but is less "perfect" in terms of singing and recording techniques) From a personnal point of view, I find the latest version a bit tiresome to listen to because of the Quarteto em Cy vocals which I find too present and too "bel canto" for the genre (those songs are religious chants celbrating the Brazilian deities of African origin, it is no opera !) In the end, I almost never listen to the entire set but an occasional song or two. Some of them have been recorded a third (fourth, fifth...etc.) time such as Canto de Xango (which I have in a vocalized version which I like very much, in fact I made a mistake in my previous post thinking it was Canto de Ossanha...) In fact for this song, I can list 4 different studio versions: the 1966 afro-sambas version (sung by BP, VdM, QeC), the "Tristeza on Guitar" version (no vocals, flute and guitar, very nice), the version from the French album "le Coeur de Baden Powell" (vocalized by PB and a female singer) and finally the second afro-sambas version from 1990 !

Nice version, I didn't know it (but there are more than a dozen out there, so not a big surprise...) The most famous one is sung by Quarteto em Cy and I have another one which I like a lot on a "best of" where a femal singer vocalizes.

I agree he's a great musician, but I really don't like his late/singing output as much as his early compositions. But maybe I'll like some day...we'll see. We have (slightly) different tastes, but that's life ! A great Brazilian classic, although I have a hard time classifying it as "bossa nova". Many songs and arrangements are more typical of MPB (Brazilian pop) My personal choice for "bossa nova" by a female singer would be Nara Leão (the album "Dez anos depois" is highly recommended, it covers the whole "bossa nova" songbook) Listen to her rendition of "Por toda a minha vida" and compare with Elis...

I completely agree: his records "Muito a vontade" and "A bossa muito moderna" from the 60's are first choice bossa nova, that clearly leans on the jazz side. João plays in a "classical" piano trio formation. They were re-issued in CD a few years back, not sure if they are still available... Edit: both seem out of print and sell for ridiculous amounts online...however copies of "A bossa muito moderna" can still be found new for a cheap price here in France.

I like Jobim very much as well, especially his recordings from the 60's where he plays on the piano his most famous tunes (I think it is the Verve album "The composer of Desafinado plays", I only have a re-issue under a different name with no liner notes...) and of course "Wave" (1967) which is his best and where the arrangements are really sophisticated. I was always disappointed however by the works he did after that (I find those very cheesy, lacking simplicity and overly romantic) and everything he tries to sing on (he doesn't have a nice voice) I'll have to give it another try one day. Baden Powell would be a first choice as well I agree. He is quite different from other bossa nova artists in the sense he is a true guitar virtuoso and in influenced very much by the african footprint on brazilian culture (try the different "Afro Sambas" albums, or "Tristeza on guitar") My favourite track would be his very long version of the track "Samba da Benção" (written by Vinicius de Moraes) which is a 9-minute long delightful trip of highest quality bossa nova. And let's not forget Vinicius de Moraes, who played an important role in the bossa nova movement and composed most of the standards with Jobim. Not a first choice for interpretation although the live in "La Fusa" is quite good.

Let's start with João Gilberto: he is the one who came up with the basic ideas of bossa nova somewhere around 1957-1958. According to the legend, he lived as a wanderer for a couple of years, moving from town to town, staying at friends' place and locking himself up for hours in their bathroom to play the guitar (because the acoustics were better) Those innovations are mainly : reducing the number of percussive instruments in a song, playing slower, singing very quietly ("canto falado" = spoken singing) and ahead or behind the guitar. His singing and guitar playing are truly unique and mesmerizing, making him immediately recognizable. Gilberto is mostly an interpreter and composed only a very small number of tunes (most of which with almost no lyrics, such as Bim Bom) He made very few records, which I will attempt to divide in several categories: - His early recordings from the end of the 50's to the early 60's consist of the bossa nova standards, are usually very short (less than 2min) and rely on heavy (cheesy, some may say) arrangements (violins, flutes...etc) All can be found on one CD. - His recordings from the 60's are exclusively works with Stan Getz (the studio album and live albums) I won't comment this, it has already been extensively discussed - The seventies show a change in his playing and singing: the songs become much longer, slower, with less additionnal instruments and his voice is even quieter. This period of maturity starts with the disc "João Gilberto en Mexico" (1970) and his style hasn't evolved much since. He moved to an even more radical approach in his album "João Gilberto" (1973) where he is almost whispering, alone with his guitar and drums. This album is often called "the white album" (reference to the Beatles...) and many consider it to be his best and I totally agree. Since then, he has released a new studio album every 4-5 years, the latest (last ?) being "João voz e violão" in 2000 (you can see he is as good to come up with albums names as for composing...) I strongly recommend listening to the discs from this period. João Gilberto is a very eccentric character. He is known for being extraordinarly demanding in terms of recording techniques and can stop in the middle of a show if the audience is too loud of the microphone not set up properly. He left Brazil in the mid-sixties for almost 20 years (he mostly lived in the US and Mexico) and now lives as a recluse in the trendy neighbouhood of Leblon, almost never leaving his appartment. He gave his latest concert in 2010 at almost 80 years old.

Hi guys, I am a huge fan of bossa nova, and actually it was the Getz/Gilberto album that led me into "real" jazz. No wonder that this record remains the holy grail: it is a true mixture of "classical" bossa nova (when Gilberto has the lead) and jazz (when Getz takes a solo) All other records, however great, always fall on one side of the line: "true" bossa nova or jazz re-interpretation of this genre. I personnally like both styles, but there are purists (from either side) that violently reject the other side of the story... This is particularly hard to understand for me since jazz is at the roots of the invention of bossa nova through the use of jazz chords, which is a clear distinctive feature of the style. According to the (unverifiable) legend, the inspiration came from a French song "Dans mon île" by Henri Salvador (1957, he was a jazz guitarist). The song was used in an Italian movie "Europe di Notte" (1958) that was seen by Antonio Carlos Jobim, who supposedly said to Sergio Mendes "this is what we should do: slow down the samba and use jazz chords". This story is controversial (some people claim the movie was released much later in Brazil), so I'll let you judge by yourself by listening to the Salvador song. Finally, just to illustrate how controversial is the definition of bossa nova, João Gilberto (who is the undisputed father and master of the genre) has always rejected the expression "bossa nova" ("new stuff" litterally) and claimed he has always been a simple "samba" singer. To avoid being too long, I will try to do several specific posts in this thread.