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Face of the Bass
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Posts posted by Face of the Bass
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Interesting timing, because I've been digging him more and more recently. The last couple weeks I've been listening to Machine Gun, Nipples, Balls, and Fuck de Boere, and like all of them, though Machine Gun is definitely the best, and about as close to an "essential" disc from that scene that you will ever come across. As the first poster said, there is no other sound in music quite like the sonic attack that breaks out on that disc.
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Setting aside the issues over plagiarism and the accuracy of some of the entries, how useful is this discography? If I want to, say, do a search for every Paul Chambers recording known to man, or every session with Oscar Pettiford, is there a better resource? Is it worth the money?
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O yes, Lord borrowed from others but all the discographers I know and have met (Delaunay, Francois Postif, Kurt Mohr - who died last month
- Otto Fluckiger, Jorgen Grunnet Jepsen among others) did exactly the same thing.No, they did not do "exactly the same thing." They (typically) borrowed to some degree (discography does not require that one perpetually
re-invent the wheel) but (1) they tended to acknowledge their sources 2) they also did original discographical research, and 3) they tried to incorporate corrections when their errors and omissions were pointed out to them. Lord doesn't "borrow"; he copies wholesale from previously published discographies, usually without acknowledgment (though acknowledgment of wholesale copying of Lord's sort and scale wouldn't make it ethical), does no original research, and does not correct errors.
And while shamelessly stealing from others, he threatens anyone who uses his work with copyright infringement!
Yeah, that qualifies him as an asshole, no doubt.
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In general I think people in this society are too wedded to this idea of intellectual property. I'm all for originality, but we're talking about a discography here, which is basically a collaborative exercise anyway. How much money is he making off it? I can't imagine he sells too many copies of this behemoth, and he has to pay for the site and the servers to download and the materials and so forth. The profits must be pretty slim, but maybe I'm wrong.
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For somebody who doesn't know anything about this, what does Lord have that you can't find for free online? Also, where does it draw the line at what counts as "jazz" and what does not? I know that's a difficult question, but any help would be appreciated.
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Wasn't there some talk that the reissue program was reaching its end?
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Word has it on the other board that the box, as a physical entity, is now out on the streets in the US !
Could be bum info though..
No, it looks like its legit. Jazz Loft is reporting that they expect to have the boxes in hand by the weekend, and will ship out everything on Monday. CD Universe still has it listed as being on Back Order, but Amazon says they have theirs in stock. So it seems to be on its way.
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Anybody have a list of the ones that have been reissued?
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I am trying to find a copy of this 3-cd set put out by Knitting Factory in 2000. I understand that Wildflowers is now out of print. I'm willing to pay a nice sum for it but so far the only copy I've found being offered on Amazon and EBay is going for $299.99. Sorry, but I'm not going to pay $100 per disc even if it is OOP. If anyone knows a cheaper way to procure this set, please respond here or PM me. Thanks.
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Mosaic needs to regenerate its catalog. All the offerings now seem much too bourgeois for my tastes. Whither the avant-garde? Protest? Revolution? All the remaining options seem like they were churned out by the same mill.
Sorry to throw cold water on your suggestion, but if Mosaic's current offerings are selling slowly, I can't imagine that the ones you suggest will exactly fly off the shelves. I can understand Mosaic's caution.
I agree. I don't think the avant-garde etc. will sell any better than the "bourgeois" stuff, on the contrary.
Maybe, maybe not. You're probably right. All I know is that the catalog is looking awfully stale these days, from my perspective, and I've bought more than 20 of their sets, counting Selects and boxes. They keep offering these sales and I keep looking at what's available and thinking, "Nah, I'll pass." I'd like it if they came out with something that would surprise me a little bit, maybe target a different audience, maybe bring in some new customers, even.
I think that's what Mosaic Contemporary is all about. Not necessarily YOUR type of music - but an attempt to bring in new customers.
I've thought Mosaic Contemporary was a mistake for a while (well, since they announced it, actually). People who might possibly like that kind of music surely aren't going to be attracted to Mosaic by the availability of a few things when there is so much that's as good (from that point of view) available anyway, at lower prices.
It's not generally my kind of music, but I think Face's idea isn't bad.
MG
I doubt they'd recoup the investment needed for the licensing, research, mastering, etc. of an avant-garde set or something similar.
Maybe...I'm not an expert at all on the business. But today I've been listening to the wonderful Jimmy Lyons box set on Ayler Records and wishing that Mosaic had done something similar along the way. I mean, there's a ton of stuff out there from the 1970s or 1980s that could be packaged together as a box, and that's besides the oft-rumored Braxton Arista set.
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Mosaic needs to regenerate its catalog. All the offerings now seem much too bourgeois for my tastes. Whither the avant-garde? Protest? Revolution? All the remaining options seem like they were churned out by the same mill.
Sorry to throw cold water on your suggestion, but if Mosaic's current offerings are selling slowly, I can't imagine that the ones you suggest will exactly fly off the shelves. I can understand Mosaic's caution.
I agree. I don't think the avant-garde etc. will sell any better than the "bourgeois" stuff, on the contrary.
Maybe, maybe not. You're probably right. All I know is that the catalog is looking awfully stale these days, from my perspective, and I've bought more than 20 of their sets, counting Selects and boxes. They keep offering these sales and I keep looking at what's available and thinking, "Nah, I'll pass." I'd like it if they came out with something that would surprise me a little bit, maybe target a different audience, maybe bring in some new customers, even.
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Mosaic needs to regenerate its catalog. All the offerings now seem much too bourgeois for my tastes. Whither the avant-garde? Protest? Revolution? All the remaining options seem like they were churned out by the same mill.
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I've got the Big Box, bulky, but decent sounding. Frankly I'd buy instead some expensive "audiophile" vinyl reissues, like Hoffman's 45rpm, or the original pressings. The trap of "digitally remastered" got me once with RVG's cds, it will never got me again, but if you don't have the Big Box, well...the music is great.
I bought the 16-disc box as well, but found that it's bulk meant that I never listened to it. So I've been getting these smaller boxes and am much more pleased. More easily digested music, and the sound is better. But more power to anyone who can dive into a 16-cd box.
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I expect someone will ask what I would have liked to have come out, so I'll just mention Billy Larkin & the Delegates Aura/WP, Les McCann PJs, Reuben Wilson BNs, Groove Holmes PJs, JAM, a proper Patton set, a complete Blue Mitchell BNs etc etc. Basically, MC has a poor appreciation of music that is aimed at wide audiences; ie that's commercial. So, even when he does pay attention to someone I'm interested in, he cuts out what he appears to think of as commercial trash, which is often what I like best. And he does it for commercial reasons... because the rest of the people on this board wouldn't buy a Mosaic if it had a couple of extra discs full of "commercial trot", would you?
MG
Yeah, Mosaic markets itself to pretentious jazz snobs, not to mainstream tastes. And I think that's probably the smarter plan anyway.
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I quite agree. Michael Cuscuna's taste in jazz is very different to mine and I think he has a very poor appreciation of the kind of jazz I like most. This leads to a BIG gap in my perception of the extent to which Mosaic has fulfilled its original promise, for which I blame MC. And I think he would probably say, "yeah, OK, but this is what I do."
But there's no way he should be criticised as a "fast buck artist".
MG
You probably have discussed this somewhere else, but can you be more specific? What jazz does he have a poor appreciation for?
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How can Mosaics not be good value for your money when you can sell almost any set that goes OOP for twice what you paid for it on EBay?
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I once briefly worked for a guy who sold engraved baseball bats. He'd take cheap pieces of wood, engrave a facsimile signature of Mickey Mantle or some other guy on the bat, and then sell the thing for $150. That was a fast-buck artist. Cuscuna, not so much.
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So, which is the next set to go OOP? The Johnny Hodges because it's Verve? (The later Max Roach and Gerry Mulligan sets have already gone OOP.) Gerald Wilson? HRS? I'm thinking of using this offer to buy the next endangered set earlier, but I don't want to buy one set, and then one or two others hit the running low list and I won't be able to afford them. Have been buying too many OOP OJCs lately for that.
if you email Mosaic, I am sure they will tell you the answer to your question.
According to Mosaic there are currently no sets heading for the "Running Low/Last Chance" list.
I didn't mean my earlier comment to suggest that people shouldn't support Mosaic. People should support businesses that put care into their product, and undoubtedly the marketplace is tough these days. So, I'm thinking of getting one of the $100+ sets with this sale. Any recommendations? These are the ones I don't have. I like almost everything Mosaic does (but not everything).
Oliver Nelson
Buddy Rich
Jazz Crusaders
Count Basie
Columbia Small Group Swing Sessions
Woody Herman
Roy Eldridge
Johnny Smith
Sarah Vaughan
Joe Venuti/Eddie Lang
Sonny Stitt
Benedetti Charlie Parker recordings
Any thoughts?
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Big fucking deal.
MG
So if you get a 7-disc set you might save a little less than 10 percent on your total order. What Mosaic needs to do is have a massive "Everything Must Go Sale" in which I can get 60 percent off everything in stock.
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I just ordered the Dexter Gordon Select...which I am very much looking forward to hearing.
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PM sent on the Teddy Edwards.
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I've been systematically going through trying to pick up every Paul Chambers session I don't already have. I have all the Chambers Riversides now, and most of the Prestiges, but there are still a few I need to get.
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I wont buy any of these - have them as TOCJ (Chambers - good one, in my opinion!), Conn (Quebec & Davis), part of a Mosaic (Morgan) and the Jordan I have from an Italian Blue Note Magazine issue. That Jordan is a hell of a fine album, by the way! Dizzy Reece is great on it, as is Stanley Turrentine!
Still a rather underwhelming bunch, to me...
The only ones I have from this bunch are Bass on Top and Morgan Vol. 3. This is the most exciting RVG batch since I started buying them about three years ago.
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All cds are $6, shipping included. Please inquire about international rates. All payments by Paypal. PM if interested.
Ben Allison & Medicine Wheel - Buzz ON HOLD
Billy Bang - Vietnam: The Aftermath ON HOLD
Anthony Braxton/Matt Bauder - 2+2 Compositions
The Contemporary Jazz Quintet - Actions (Unheard Music Series) ON HOLD
Emergency - Homage to Peace (America #08) ON HOLD
Charles Lloyd - The Water Is Wide ON HOLD
Maneri Ensemble - Going To Church ON HOLD
Blue Mitchell - Blues On My Mind: The Riverside Collection
NAM - Song of Time: Live at the Vision Festival ON HOLD
Greg Osby - St. Louis Shoes ON HOLD
William Parker - Sunrise in the Tone World
William Parker - Through Acceptance of the Mystery Peace
Roswell Rudd - The Unheard Herbie Nichols, Vol. 1 ON HOLD
Archie Shepp & Mal Waldron - Left Alone Revisited ON HOLD
Wadada Leo Smith/Susie Ibarra/John Zorn - Fiftieth Birthday Celebration ON HOLD
Wadada Leo Smith - Lake Biwa ON HOLD
Wadada Leo Smith - Luminous Axis ON HOLD
Wadada Leo Smith - Tao Njia ON HOLD
McCoy Tyner - Extensions ON HOLD
John Zorn - Filmworks Vol. XIII - Invitation To A Suicide ON HOLD
Blue Note Reissues for 2008...
in Re-issues
Posted
Well, I'm glad to see this and to know that the Blue Note reissue program--which I think has been vital for preserving jazz's legacy--still has some kick left in it. Looking forward to hearing the Jimmy Smith dates.