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Stevie Mclean
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Posts posted by Stevie Mclean
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14 minutes ago, JSngry said:
It's "hilarious" really. Repetition has become the lingua franca of propaganda commercial media worms, minimalist classical in all its offshoots, pretty much everything every where, and yet "jazz averse" clowns laugh at the quite intentional use of a deeply rooted African(-American) technique like it's some kind of failure or something.
Ignorance in the service of assumed superiority...
The ultimate irony (tragedy?) of it all is that all those friends exclusively listened to rap music. Playing some grant green was my olive branch to help them find the source of all that's good about hip-hop. I would assume that a repeated phrase wouldn't phase them considering all the rap songs that sample a single phrase or bar from a jazz song and repeat it endlessly over the ENTIRE song.
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2 minutes ago, Daniel A said:
But does the chosen take have to be the final one? Could they have made 15 takes of 'Buddy Boy' and then one take of '2 J'?
Yes that's true, I'm sure that is the case for many songs. So I guess it's hard to estimate exactly how many takes we're done for each.
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15 minutes ago, JSngry said:
Listen to Mal Waldron get stuck...
Mal must enjoy digging; he seems to always get himself stuck!
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13 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:
I think it's the song Green with Envy where he repeats a couplet at least 8 times.
The one they attached themselves to is 5 and a half minutes into No. 1 Green Street. Listening back to the album now, there are probably 4 or 5 instances that could be considered "getting stuck" and repeating himself. I choose to believe that they are all intentional, to provide emphasis, but I won't claim that statement to move beyond the realm of belief.
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On 5/17/2024 at 5:08 PM, Kevin Bresnahan said:
I really hate that trio date, especially the tune where he gets stuck. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard for me.
While on a trip with some jazz-averse friends I made the mistake of putting that song on in our hotel room. They mocked me by crudely "singing" Grant's repeated phrase for the rest of the trip.
I did catch one of them nodding and patting his foot. I guess it's hard to resist the Grant Green funk. -
I am wondering if anyone can confirm my understanding of the way that JazzDisco lists the takes from a recording session. For example, for this John Patton session:
John Patton Quartet
Marvin Cabell, soprano, tenor sax; George Coleman, tenor sax; John Patton, organ; Leroy Williams, drums.
Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, June 9, 1969
tk.5 Buddy Boy Blue Note CDP 7243 8 53924 2 9 tk.16 2 J - tk.23 Man From Tanganyika Blue Note CDP 7243 8 35221 2 5 tk.25 Cissy Strut - tk.30 Dragon Slayer - tk.33 Sweet Pea Blue Note CDP 7243 8 53924 2 9 * Blue Note CDP 7243 8 53924 2 9 John Patton - Accent On The Blues 1997
* Blue Note CDP 7243 8 35221 2 5 John Patton - Memphis To New York Spirit 1996
I assume that the takes listed are total from the whole session and not for each song. So assuming that these songs listed are the only songs attempted at the session, then:
Buddy Boy: 5th take
2 J: 11th take
Man from Tanganyika: 7th take
Cissy Strut: 2nd take
Dragon Slayer: 5th take
Sweet Pea: 3rd take
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I have been a longtime listener of Emmet's Place on YouTube and have recently discover New Jazz Underground. I was Very excited to see this collaboration. I think it's definitely worth checking out.
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Just now, clifford_thornton said:
I don't know if I would make this statement today, but when I started to give GG (Grant Green, not GG Allin) a listen, the first comparison that came to mind was a guitar-playing Mal Waldron. I guess it was the emphatic repetition and inherent earthy blues that enveloped even the filigree that struck me as related.
That's a very interesting connection to make. I cannot say that I have felt the same, but I can see where you are coming from. To me Grant is all about flowing lines that fall like calm waves breaking and forming a nice beach. Mal sounds more like stormy waves hitting from all angles aggressively cutting away from the shoreline. Both are repetitive and come from the same source, however the way that they influence the environment is very different.
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8 hours ago, JSngry said:
And the Lord said, let there be FLAYVA. And it was so.
Talk about everybody having a good day...and Ben Dixon framing everything!
Don't think that this was ever a 45, but if it was, I want it, and a jukebox to put it in. And the scratchier, the better.
I've always loved how Ben accents with the bell of the ride cymbal. Especially like how he swings those off-beat quarter notes at the end of the head phrase on Whatever Lola Wants.
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8 hours ago, JSngry said:
Exactly. Grant is not a simple "riff player", he's a language player.
Language.
Complete sentences in a group conversation.
Thanks for the reminder, almost forgot to listen to this today...
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Eddie Khan.
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6 minutes ago, JSngry said:
BIlly Taylor
Tommy Williams!
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46 minutes ago, Gheorghe said:
My favourite underrated bass players when I had discovered bop (AFTER "free" I must admit), was Tommy Potter and Curley Russell. They the unsung heros of all those murder sessions with up tempo stuff, when there still was no amps and pickups for the bass fiddle.
And it´s interesting that they could also play solo very well, only there was no space for much solo then. But Potter could play wonderful bass solos, and Russell the same, both were very very good bassists.I've recently been uncovering the wonders of Tommy Potter by way of Jimmy Forrest and Willis Jackson. Who would have thought, the backbone of bop is also one helluva soul jazz player!
Fresh Sounds has a CD of the Willis Jackson session with Tommy playing on 14 songs.
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3 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:
A couple of images from an Andrew Hill event at the University of Chicago circa 1968 - taken by Terry Martin.
Wilbur Ware, Thurman Barker and Roscoe Mitchell.
Whaaaaat that's awesome!
4 hours ago, sgcim said:I don't know if he would like being known for what I was talking about in my post. That's why I didn't mention his name.
Out of the options to:
1. Mention his name and his playing but ignore his vices.
2. Mention his name, his playing and his vices.
3. Omit his name but mention his playing and his vices.
You definitely chose the strangest one!
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8 minutes ago, JSngry said:
A few years ago, in this community, I was a bit taken back at the amount of ambivalence toward Jimmy Garrison. It was all aimed at his solos. Ok, I guess, but what about the rest of it?
Still underrated in my book.
I might agree with his bowed solos leaving a little to be desired (though he is far from alone in that category as far as I am concerned) however, I never have issues with his pizz solos. And I agree with you, "the rest of it" alone is enough to justify his place in the halls of bass excellence.
Jackie McLean - Swing Swang Swingin'
Bill Barron - The Tenor Stylings...
J.R. Monterose - The Message
Walter Bishop Jr. - Speak Low
Kenny Dorham - Show Boat
Philly Joe - Blues for Dracula 😉
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3 hours ago, JSngry said:
I'll nominate Wilbur Ware. Everybody knows the name, but how about the playing itself? Influence on today's players?
Yes!! I absolutely adore his playing. He was my first love when it comes to jazz bass. His use of harmonics is so unique and recognizable and his rhythmic feel hits me like a truck.
I also quite enjoy his playing with Walt Dickerson in the 70's. It's awesome to hear his signature sound from the 50's in a more free setting.13 hours ago, sgcim said:I played with one bass player back in the 70s, his only jazz credit is a band Teramusa Hino formed called Everything is Everything, who only released one album,"Just a Flash in the Cosmic Plan", and he was an excellent, underrated, obscure player, but that's about every bass player in NYC. I chose JC, because he was a player in the pit of a theater in NY I used to play in, and he used to get so polluted from the cloud of weed he'd do before every show, that one night he broke two bass strings during one show(!) We were playing something called TSOP, all Philly Disco music, and he was playing heavy funk fills all over the place, and the first time it happened I thought, "wow, that's never happened before," but the second time it happened, I thought "demonic weed".
A very fitting album title for his lone recording.
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22 hours ago, Gheorghe said:
Not obscure but underrated :
Herbie Lewis !
I love him, he appears on many live dates and recordings sessions but seems to be more a musician´s musician.
But I say it was love from first hearing: Saw him with an ultimate Dream Band of Jackie McLean, Bobby Hutcherson, Herbie Lewis, Billy Higgins and his solo on the first tune "Blue´n Boogie" was a highlight of special quality.
I love his sound and his touch of the strings, to hear him pluggin´the bass.....Great player, and he's got style as well!
23 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:Carl Brown made another Lacy date for Atlantic. It was a trio date with Billy Higgins (recorded 2 weeks before 'Evidence"), and remains unissued.
Ack, I forgot about that. let me know when I can get my ears on it,I'm not a fan of window shopping. 😢
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22 minutes ago, mhatta said:
Personally, I feel that the tenor player who worked best with Larry Young was Booker Ervin. The session that came out as bonus on a Pony Poindexter CD was a cool mix of traditional and advanced. I think they should be better known.
Yeah, at that point in time Ervin and Young's inside out styles really paired quite well. When Young and Forrest recorded Forrest Fire (3 years prior) Young was still quite JOS-inspired which gave him a forward looking but still relatively straight ahead sound that worked very well with Forrest's modern tough-tenor style. It's cool to see Young work with a variety of soloists as his conception evolved through time.
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On 5/2/2024 at 6:36 AM, soulpope said:
A Ben Tucker master class ....
Along with one of my personal favourites:
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Face to Face has long been my personal favourite soul jazz album with Swingin' at Sugar Ray's being my favourite song on the album. Therefore, I was pleasantly surprised to find that Whap! from The Honeydripper is basically the same song. As I was listening to the head it struck me as quite similar, but boy was I unprepared for Grant's solo. He almost note for note replayed his solo from S.A.S.R. But hey I don't blame him, it's a legendary solo imo and the McDuff session was just 4 days after the Willette session so I'll give him a pass.
I'm interested to hear about other examples of duplicated solos, I'm sure this is not an isolated incident.
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TALKIN ABOUT GREEEEAZZZEE!!!
Larry Young's comping and solo on Dexter's Deck from Forrest Fire is a master class in greasy funky subtle wonderful brilliant intelligent musical awesomeness. The way he constructs the solo off of a simple theme and slowly builds up to such a high energy, foot stompin' groove is just fascinating.And all that at age 19! Talkin' about LARRY YOUNG!
What about that Jimmy Forrest too eh? A pairing made for wax!
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On the underrated front, I have always enjoyed Ben Tucker's playing on many "soul-adjacent" records. He always had such a booming sound and could play with the rhythm just enough to make it interesting while always staying in the pocket.
In a similar vein to Tucker, I also really enjoy Eldee Young's contributions to the Ramsey Lewis Trio. I dare say he might be my favourite part!
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6 hours ago, soulpope said:
@ Stevie Mclean : probably you should consider adding "or underrated" to the thread title, so we could discuss even more interesting bass players here 🧐🤓 ....
well who would want to miss a discussion of that kind?
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15 minutes ago, mhatta said:
Gary Mapp (played with Monk)
Putter Smith (not really obscure, 007 movie fame)
Addison Farmer (not really obscure, Art's twin bro, died too soon)
I haven't heard anything of Mapp or Smith, however I quite enjoy Farmer's work in Mal Waldron's trio. His passing was indeed much too soon. There is an interview with Art in which he discusses his brothers untimely passing and gives some insight on how it affected him and his view of life and death, quite an interesting and emotional read.
16 minutes ago, soulpope said:Nick Di Geronimo ..... three appearances with Andrew Cyrille between 1978 (Black Saint) and 1983 (Soul Note) .... what a fantastic bass player and no traces to be found at all ....
I've really been getting into Cyrille by way of Walt Dickerson so I am excited to give these records a listen.
7 minutes ago, Gheorghe said:Somewhere I read that Gary Mapp was a policeman.
About Addison Farmer: Once I heard a bassist "Julius Farmer" who was Art´s nephew. He even looked a bit like Art. Maybe this Julius Farmer was the son of Addison ? I heard Julius only once at a Jazzfestival, but he played with Larry Coryell Trio as well as with Alphonse Mouzon electric group, so he did 2 features at one festival, which happens rarely. He was also the bassist of the after hour jam session.Arthur Phipps also a good choice: I think he was an insider´s musician in the Brooklyn jazz community.
- How about John Simmons who played with Monk as well as with Tadd Dameron ? It seems that later he disappeared completly.
- Who was that misterious Ebenezer Paul ? He played on those 1941 Minton sessions but otherwise I never heard about him.
- Jimmy Rowser ? Isn´t he on one of the Coltrane LP´s on Prestige. He sounds interesting, because he doesn´t have that long tone, he has that boppish short and more percussive tone, it sounds very fine on a fast version of "Woody´n You".
In an interview Jackie McLean stated that Phipps left the scene completely to follow his true passion of photography. He also said that music was not Phipps passion and that he did it to make some bread. If that happens to be true, I can't find any evident of that in his playing. He always sounded great in his few recordings.
I know Rowser from one of my favourite Hank and Dorham sessions Curtain Call. I cant say that his playing on that album struck me in any way but I'm sure he contributes his fair share to a favourite of mine. Will give a more focused listen to him for sure.
Grant Green: under-estimated as Jazz artist, and Blue Note to blame?
in Artists
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Hey, I do it when I feel like it.