Phish Corner

[Aggie87]

How many good songs did GD have?  2? 

Out of curiousity, which are those 2, in your eyes?

Edited October 7, 2005 by Aggie87

[Guest akanalog]

am i right in thinking this rob fella and the guy who started this thread (sorry if either of you are women) are both around 20?

this thread is stupid. please take it to rec.music.phish or something.

but rob probably what you are saying is just about the stupidest stuff anyone has said.

phish for people who grew up in the 90s and the dead for the 70s people? what a stupid comment.

that is like saying john coltrane is for people who grew up in the 60s and ravi coltrane is for people who grew up in the 90s.

or i guess not really-it would be like saying miles davis is for people who grew up in the 70s and wallace roney is for people that grew up in the 90s.

[Guest akanalog]

hmm.

actually here is one you would understand i am sure-

grant green is for people who grew up in the 70s and john scofield is for people who grew up in the 90s.

[md655321]

am i right in thinking this rob fella and the guy who started this thread (sorry if either of you are women) are both around 20? 

this thread is stupid.  please take it to rec.music.phish or something.

This thread is not nearly as stupid as you are condescending. If you have nothing to say, feel free not to say it. This thread belongs here as much as any other music thread does.

Clealry you are trying to insinuate Phish is somehow less than the 'masterful' Dead, and you can have that opinion. But you are dead wrong in my eyes (pun intended.) Greateful Dead are no Miles, and Phish are no Wallace Roney. Again, lets get back to talking about the merits of the bands, not degrading them.

Glad to hear I sparked a little interest with some of you. Im gonna go listen to their final show again in a few minutes. Not their best stuff, but definitely some emotional moments and some great playing (especially from the three non-Try members.)

Edited October 7, 2005 by md655321

[Guest akanalog]

actually no. i am not taking the deads side in this. it is just a dumb argument. neither band is around. there is no reason to compare them to each other. let the dead people enjoy the dead and you can enjoy phish. i have fallen asleep at dead shows. i would never listen to a whole dead show (first sets are worthless in my eyes). i have found almost completely satisying phish shows. i have seen some impressive shows. my point was it is just a dumb argument.

i think the dead are overrated by their fans who cant see through all the crap surrounding them (mystique, nostalgia, etc) to see a lot of what they might enjoy is missing substance (ie: anything post winterland 74 retirement almost). obviuously phish fans suffer the same thing but there is a lost less mystique and time to cloud opinion of the music.

i am not condescending phish or their fans. but this comparison thing is a kneejerk unproductive immature approach to a discussion of phish and their music.

instead why not approach it like this-

hey. i happen to really like the winter '95 shows where trey got on the percussion kit. i think the groove the band would fall into at this part of the show were really focused and driving. i guess part of it was having to simplify because trey couldnt really do too much complex on that little kit so fishman sort of dumbed down his beats and it worked well. also hearing page cycle through his keyboards which he often avoided. it's too bad these 95 shows were well played but generaly rote when looked at as whole shows. i mean look at the 12/2/95 tweezer which i think could be the best ever-but who wants to listen to that show all the way through? the tweezer is short too. do other people like the trey mini-kit?

i also think that august 93 is overrated. so much of the improvisation was disonant and rhyhthmically weird. not always pleasant to listen to. do other people find this time period overrated?

what are your favorite of the live phish releases? its too bad they picked that denver show for a late 97 choice since there are so many better shows? since quincy mentioned the hampton 22/97 show, how about the next night in winston salem? that show really had a lot of interesting stuff. i think people think of 97 as funky, but like in the bathtub gin in this show they also really did these spacey majestic jams which were cool since they were so textural. but finding a high quality copy is tough.

[Guest akanalog]

and my point wasnt miles davis is better than wallace roney.

just that this is a jazz site where people enjoy older music a great deal so to say older music is for older people is really stupid.

i mean if i grew up in the 90s (which i did) should i only listen to 90s jazz? this is the wrong site for such a comment i think.

[Guest]

It just seems that most "deadheads" grew up listening to them, so that is why they are fans. They dont like Phish because they see them as ripping of the whole Dead jamming bit. As one of my friends said "I liked this band (Phish) the first time around when they were called the Grateful Dead." Sure, both bands are different, save the endless jamming bit. I just think most GD fans grew up listening to them and that's why they like them. To me GD isnt that accessible of a band. The same can be said for Phish, most people started listening in high school or college and either lost interest or still listen now. While not every Dead or Phish head falls into this category, I am sure it is true of most fans.

Thanks for being such a dick.

[Guest]

C'mon, most people still listen to music they grew up listening to. That doesnt mean they dont listen to older music as well. I listen to music that came out 20 years before I was born. With Phish and Dead fans they seem to like one or the other, but not both. It seems most dead heads seem to resent Phish phans.

[Guest akanalog]

yeah man. people like one or the other sometimes because THEY ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT MUSICS!!!

some people on this board like the funny rat thread and some people avoid it like the plague. same thing. its totally different stuff. its all jazz, just like phish and dead are lumped into jambands whether rightly or wrongly. but different tastes. its not a competition.

[gdogus]

Okay - I think I'm done with this thread. It's incredibly negative, and for no good reason.

Akanalog, you say it's a stupid thread; but reading back through it, it seems that you're the one who introduced the negativity (in its second post!) and prolonged that negativity beyond all cause.

Think about it.

Later.

[Guest akanalog]

that is true. i did bring a lot of negativity.

the topic irritates me of one band versus the other.

sorry for my negativity.

also i think livephish is a crappy organization and kevin whats his face oh shapiro i think is a moron who runs the archives.

stifling the taping community from having any soundboards post 94 in circulation except for the random few is stupid. the dead for instance still get people to buy the official releases even with many nice sounding SBDs out there. phish fans are stuck with crappy sounding boomy tapes for most everything from 1995 and on and its not like phish is rushing to get anything out there in a nice package from older times for the most part.

[Guest akanalog]

ALSO-

did you hear see the last phish show???

i probably do have a lot of residual bad energy. that was no way to go out.

they should have ended with the miami new years run in 2003. those shows were great mostly.

[md655321]

i am not condescending phish or their fans.  but this comparison thing is a kneejerk unproductive immature approach to a discussion of phish and their music.

There is something about a pot and and kettle here.

As for fave Phish compostiion, I love Stash. A nifty little chord progression with trey modulaing into dorian for much of the solo. But all of those "jam' songs like Antelope, YEM and others really are tremendous compositions. Not really traditionaly songwriters, but much more in a prog rock vein, especially on the first album, Junta.

[gdogus]

that is true. i did bring a lot of negativity...

sorry for my negativity.

also i think livephish is a crappy organization and kevin whats his face oh shapiro i think is a moron who runs the archives. [etc.]

←

Really done now...

[.:.impossible]

I definitely liked the 95 shows when Trey switched to percussion. This was around the time they had been rehearsing Remain In Light if I remember. Was that Halloween 94? I think the percussive nature of Talking Heads music and other things they were listening to at the time really influenced this.

I have to say that I think Jon Fishman is one of the most technically proficient drum machines that I have seen in person. The guy is so accurate and so restrained. I really love to listen to them go deep into Ghost or some of the more deep funk oriented compositions mainly to hear Fishman get nasty on his hi-hats. I'm listen to a lot of drummers, and Fishman will always remain up there.

Maybe it would be good to steer this thread in another direction. How many of you are familiar with the recording Surrender to the Air?

I think this is an interesting release because it obviously doesn't appeal to the average Phish listener, but it doesn't seem to appeal to the average music listener period. Marshall Allen, Michael Ray, Bob Gullotti (!) & Jon Fishman (!), John Medeski, Damon R. Choice (I've never been able to hear his vibraphone on this recording. I'm wondering if he was playing through effects and it just isn't recognizable.), the Burbridge brothers, Trey Anastasio and Marc Ribot all seem to be heading toward a more Sun Ra plane. The inflate and deflate song titles fit perfectly.

I think I've brought this album up here a few times and seem to get minimal response. It is one of those albums that seems to have slipped through the cracks. I think Marshall Allen fans would dig this more than Phish fans would. The music is so difficult to classify, I think a lot of people have a hard time with it because it is rare to find the mood that this music hits. What do y'all think?

p.s. Dig that intro by Gullotti! So nice.

[sal]

I did hear "Surrender to the Air" many years ago when it first came out. I haven't heard it since, but would like give it another spin now that I've become familiar with more "out" jazz. I did enjoy it to a certain extent back then, but remember thinking that it was over my head.

[md655321]

Phish finally released a legit version of their epic 12/31/95 show at Madison Square Garden. This show has long been held as their best and a turning point in their jamming and their approach to music.

I finally got a chance to pick up the real version, with crystal clear sound. It is indeed a phenomenal piece of musicianship, with the best You Enjoy Myself I have ever heard. Especially considering Trey hasnt had the chops to play it correctly since about 97.

I definitely recommend it to anyone who wants to give their Phish love a kickstart or a reboost.

It is also available for download (with artwork) from Livephish.com for only 15.99 for 3 discs.

[Guest akanalog]

my favorite part was the digital delay loop thing to end set II.

second favorite was the jamming that came after drowned.

[.:.impossible]

I did hear "Surrender to the Air" many years ago when it first came out. I haven't heard it since, but would like give it another spin now that I've become familiar with more "out" jazz. I did enjoy it to a certain extent back then, but remember thinking that it was over my head.

Sal, did you ever get around to listening to this piece again? How would you describe it now? I still don't know exactly what it is, but it is dense and, to me, all guards down, pretty damned impressive.

It will forever get bashed because of the roster.

[sal]

impossible, unfortunately I don't own this CD and don't currently have any access to it (my ex-girlfriend was the one who had it), so I have not gotten the chance to give it a listen. Would really like to though....I live by a good used CD store. I'll look for it on my next visit.