Sun Ra "Song of the Stargazers" (Saturn 6161). not sun ra?

[l p]

there was an interesting post on the saturn list a few months ago about this album

 

Sun Ra and his Arkestra
Song of the Stargazers
Saturn 6161 (NMY), LP 487 
Side A:
The Others in their World (Ra, not the 1960 piece)
Somewhere Out (Ra)
Distant Stars (Ra, not the 1960 piece either)
Duo 
Side B:
Seven Points (Ra)
Cosmo Dance (Ra)
Galactic Synthesis (Ra) 
(all above info from moudry's site)

 

 

 

>>>>>> saturn post:

So I was listening to a dub of the rare Saturn LP, Song of the Stargazers yesterday, first listen in about a decade, and it hit me. This is not a record by Sun Ra or the Arkestra. The more I listen to it, the more I think this is the case.

The first thing that clued me in was track 6, Cosmo Dance. Campbell in the 2nd ed. puts this track in the late 60s. But I would bet money that Sun Ra never touched it in any way. Nothing about it sounds like his work, not the composition, not the arrangement, not the flautist, nothing. I thought maybe it was Salah Ragab's Cairo Jazz Band, but the dates don't work.

Next was the piano solo at the end of Galactic Synthesis. I just don't think that's Sun Ra. It's not his touch or phrasing. I don't think it's Cecil Taylor either, but it sounds more like him than Sunny. Same with the piano solo on Somewhere Out. Same with the organ playing on the first track The Others in Their World. It's closer to Sun Ra than the piano, but it still isn't him. Even the improvised ensembles don't sound like the ones he directed in the 70s either.

Michael Ray is definitely not on this record. Him I'd recognize in three notes. Neither is Marshall Allen or John Gilmore. Furthermore I can't say with any certainty that I recognize any musician on this record.

In entries 289-292 of the 2nd ed., Campbell keeps pointing out how unusual the performances are. The last time I remember having a discussion about this on the list, we were all stumped where and when it came from. At the time I fooled myself in to thinking that most of the material was from the late 60s. But apply Occam's Razor, and it all becomes clear. It's not a Sun Ra record.

So what is this record? It was the last LP that Alton Abraham put out of Chicago. How many years since he had gotten any new material from Sun Ra? Maybe he got an emergency request for an LP to sell, scraped together a tape some other Chicago band he knew, forgot to master both sides of the tape, tacked on some old Sun Ra song titles and shipped it to Europe. Who knows? Alton Abraham was known for very...unusual...business practices. I don't think throwing together a pseudo-Sun Ra LP would have been entirely outside the pale for him.
 

[Hot Ptah]

 

For whatever it is worth, here is the discussion about this album on another music board:

 

1. SONG OF THE STARGAZERS (Saturn, 1980)
   
   1. The Others in Their World
   2. Somewhere Out
   3. Distant Stars
   4. Duo
   5. Seven Points
   6. Cosmo Dance
   7. Galactic Synthesis
   
   Another one unowned by me. Actually, it's pretty much unowned by almost all Ra enthusiasts; apparently very few copies exist.
   
   From Campbell:
   
   Ra-p, keyb; Michael Ray-tp; poss. Craig Harris-tb; Marshall Allen-as, fl, ob, picc; John Gilmore-ts; Eloe Omoe-bcl; Danny Ray Thompson-bs; unknown-eg; unknown-b; poss. Luqman Ali (Edward Skinner)-d; unknown-cga; unknown-perc. Live recording, unknown location.
   
   The non-gonzo guitarist suggests 1978 or later. Seven Points seems akin as a title to Five Points (on Omniverse). Sound is awful -- keyboard is often off mike. Julian Vein says that the LP may have been recorded on only one stereo channel; Geerken concurs that both of his copies sound defective. Vocalists are so hard to hear that I can't tell whether June Tyson is there or not, or whether they ever got to sing Song of the Stargazers. Distant Stars is an abstract piano rumination. Seven Points is an exciting and rather humorous percussion piece. Cosmo Dance is a sinuosity for oboe and bass clarinet (maybe it backed the dancers with the giant Thai hats). Hartmut Geerken confirms that it was released, as he and two other European collectors own copies. "Maybe Saturn produced it in a very limited edition and they sold it while touring through Europe." Geerken says that the LP has a Chicago Saturn label (perhaps it is the last Chicago Saturn?). Stahl's discography listed it as a 1961 release, from the Sun Arts Club in Chicago (a place I am convinced is imaginary). I do wonder, though, about Edward Skinner (listed by Stahl on drums) because he was later known as Luqman Ali! Did Stahl take Skinner's name as evidence of a 1961 recording date? In any case, one listen will convince you this session was not made in 1961. Thanks to Mark Webber for sending me a tape. [rlc]

2. ceddy10165Well-Known Member

   Location:

   Avon, CT

   Remastered copies of Song Of the Stargazers (sourced from a cassette of the original LP) circulate among collectors. It is a strong LP, consistent with other Ra releases of the period. 1974-1978 seems to be the time period that the tracks were recorded.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Hot Ptah

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

you mean, its a """(in the style of) Sun Ra Arkestra""" record?  

Edited February 12, 2016 by chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez