iBook vs. Powerbook

[Brandon Burke]

Hey folks, I'm looking at getting a laptop before I head to D.C. to do my practicum. I'm definately getting an Apple--so there's no swaying me there--but I'm undecided regarding the two models. The first several people I asked said that they regretted getting an iBook (but a few of them have older G3 models which changes things a bit). Another friend of mine said that I'd be crazy to blow the extra money on a Powerbook when iBooks are just fine on their own. I should add that everyone I asked is very computer savvy and almost all of them work in I.T. in some capacity or another.

Any opinions or testimonials.....?

[Jim Dye]

There are going to be speed bumps in all the Apple laptops next week, so if you can wait a few days, i'd do it.

What models are you looking at? The 12" screen or larger?

I think the 14" iBook is currently the sweet spot. I like the little 12" books, but the larger screens are the way to go.

$1,299.00

933MHz PowerPC G4

256K L2 cache @ 933MHz

14-inch TFT Display

1024x768 resolution

256MB DDR266 SDRAM

40GB Ultra ATA drive

Combo Drive

ATI Mobility Radeon 9200

32MB DDR video memory

Again, this model will probably be a 1 gig processor or better for the same price in a few weeks.

Or, if you are going for cheap, you may want to consider a refurbished model.

http://www.smalldog.com/product/12651819

[Brandon Burke]

Thanks Irwin. I'm definately going to buy new so I can get the extended warranty. So far I'm leaning towards the 12" iBook. I like the idea of it being pretty small and I'm getting this primarily for portability since I have an eMac at home. I was thinking of getting the standard model with the 60 GB hardrive upgrade, combo drive, and the Airport Extreme card. I figure I'll get more memory elsewhere.

Next question: where did you find that price quote? On the Apple site (even with my education discount) the model detailed above comes to $1,338.00. If I can find a 14" with the combo drive and all of the other goodies you list then I'll likely do that instead. Please let me know where you found that info.

I especially appreciate the tip regarding the processor boosts. Didn't know about that one. I hope they do it sooner than later because I need to decide by sometime in June.

Again thanks,

Brandon

Edited April 18, 2004 by Brandon Burke

[J Larsen]

The advantages of the PowerBook are that they are notably faster, they sport FireWire 800, they have (I believe) larger HD capacity, they have large RAM capacity, their caches are 25% larger, and I think they are a bit lighter. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but at least until recently SuperDrives were only packaged in PowerBooks. My experience has also been that the casings are much better made for the PowerBooks than for the iBooks.

If you're regularly doing a lot of computationally intensive stuff, the speed, RAM and cache differences point you towards the PowerBook. That's why I went with the PowerBook - I use it primarly for numerical modeling. If you're doing modeling, software development, video editing, etc, you'll want the PowerBook. If you like downloading MP3s, storing video, or storing lot of digital pictures, the HD difference points to the PowerBook (of course, you could always get a FW external HD to supplement the iBook, but the cost of the external drive may exceed the price difference between the notebook models you're looking at). If you really want to use your notebook to burn DVDs, for the price difference the inclusion of the SuperDrive with the PowerBook is a great deal. If none of these things matter to you, and you're sure that the upgrade limitations on the iBook aren't going to bite you in the ass in the future, then the iBook will do just fine for you.

[.:.impossible]

What will you be using the laptop for Brandon? Its fantastic that Apple has developed portable supercomputers, but the average user doesn't need all that.

My wife, who's in law school and uses the machine primarily for word processing and research, is on a 14" G3 iBook 800Mhz. I'm actually using it right now. She uses iTunes, iCal, iPhoto as well.

Of course, it would be great to have a G4 1Ghz in a laptop, but its not necessary for the application.

By the way, the 12" is pretty sweet. There's something really neat about a computer so small and portable. I love the layout of the newer Apple laptop keyboards also. I have a Dell through work and it doesn't compare.

Edited April 19, 2004 by .:.impossible

[J Larsen]

Its fantastic that Apple has developed portable supercomputers, but the average user doesn't need all that.

That's true as of this moment, but it is changing. As commercial hardware improves, software developers are taking advantage. I used to be able to do my work on a machine with just 64MB RAM, running at around 200MHz. Now, just a few years later, I need ten times those specs to do the same work if I want to be using the current versions of all the necessary software. Of course, the new software is much better and can do a lot more, but you need the new hardware whether or not you're taking advantage of the new software features. This isn't just limited to my work - just look at how fast the demands of new operating systems are growing.

BTW, Apple's hyperbole of calling the G5 a "supercomputer" is one of my many Apple advertising pet peeves. It's more like a workstation. BIG difference.

[.:.impossible]

Yeah, just to clarify, I don't think a G5 processor is a supercomputer and I think it does make sense to always have more processing ability than you need, but you really can't purchase a machine now and expect it to meet all of your needs in 6 years. Who knows what your needs will be!

I was also using the word supercomputer as hyperbole.

What type of software are you using JLarsen?

[porcy62]

I own an eMac and I found it pretty adeguate for my need, UNTIL NOW, but as someone as pointed out the new software require more powerful computer. Since I installed the last version of microsoft office I wasn't able to work with two or three programs at the same time as before, so I bought a powerbook Titanium, is it expensive, but with a dvd and a big screen life is easier for me now.

and, if you care about industrial design, it's gorgeus.

[J Larsen]

Yeah, just to clarify, I don't think a G5 processor is a supercomputer and I think it does make sense to always have more processing ability than you need, but you really can't purchase a machine now and expect it to meet all of your needs in 6 years. Who knows what your needs will be!

I was also using the word supercomputer as hyperbole.

What type of software are you using JLarsen?

Fair enough on the "6 years" issue. On the software, I often run all of these programs simultaneously: Project Developer, Terminal, Mathematica (often with add-on packages), StatView (not a great program but it exports to Origin), Excel (for quick-and-dirty checks), and TeXShop, along with some proprietary stuff. The new version of Mathematica is what eats up a lot of my processing power, but the trend towards bigger software is not limited to my field. It amazes me how big regular operating systems are now - a few years ago you'd be hard-pressed to just boot up a contemporary OS on even a high-end personal computer!

One amazing result of the G5 is how fast the price of traditional workstations dropped after its introduction. You can get a high-end Sun workstation for around ten grand now! The top model in '99 was around 60 grand! I think that tells you a lot about the quality of the G5.

[Brandon Burke]

I won't be doing the kind of work that would require Powerbook capabilities. Like your wife, impossible, I'm finishing graduate school in library science and will be using it mostly for word processing, research and simpe data logging (Excel, etc). As for the HD space, and like I said before, I plan on getting the minimum from Apple and buying more elsewhere. It'll be much cheaper. Also, I always use external HDs anyway. Almost more as a safety precaution than anything else--since I back everything up--but I also house a lot of lesser accesed information on the external. This allows me to conserve space on the compuer itself and keep processing speeds where they need to be.

That said, the iBook seems like it will be quite enough. My concerns were with hardware or any other problems like heat, etc that one would only really know about from experience. I agree that, from a design perspective, the Powerbook would be prefered but, again, I'm in school and whatever I end up buying will run me about 10% of my annual income in 2003. As such, I'm not in the market for "neat" or "cool". I'm in the market for functional and portable (and, of course, the ability to make beats while riding on airplanes).

Edited April 18, 2004 by Brandon Burke

[.:.impossible]

Actually, the iBook is pretty damn cool from a design perspective. I love the Titanium. My father-in-law has been upgrading in this series since the beginning. It is an awesome laptop.

The iBook is plenty rugged. You can buy without hesitation. The speakers kind of suck, but that is a small complaint considering we are talking about a portable computer rather than a stereo. I love this computer. Too bad it ain't mine!

[.:.impossible]

P.S. I make it a habit to keep most of my hard drive open. I have this instinctive paranoia that it is not good to operate on low memory.

[J Larsen]

Brandon, the iBook should actually run cooler than the PowerBook. Most of the heat generated by your computer comes from the CPU. Higher-grade CPUs use smaller and fast electronics. The smaller and faster you make the transistors, the more heat they dissipate - it's just a fact of life in microelectronics (which happens to be my field). This is also the reason you don't see G5 books, BTW. If you included enough cooling elements, it wouldn't be very portable anymore. Evidently they're going to try to release one with a reduced clock speed within a year or so.

[Christiern]

I have a white iBook and am very pleased with it. My main computers are a Mac Cube and a dual CPU tower, but I have traveled with my iBook and put it to some pretty rugged test.

Two friends of mine have the 12" powerbook (with superdrive), and I must say that it is impressive--yes, the screen is relatively small, but this is a fine machine.

[Quincy]

I own an 800 Mhz G3 12" iBook and love it. I maxed out the RAM (got it elsewhere) and find it most responsive for my needs, though other than messing with some medium sized photos I'm not exactly doing stuff that needs lots of speed.

You of course will be buying an even faster computer. The one nice thing about a slower processor is that the G3 runs very cool so the hand rests (namely the left) never gets too hot.

Sounds like you've talked yourself into the 12" iBook. I think you'll be very happy with it. It's a nice size and a dandy machine.

[Brandon Burke]

Cool. Thanks again for this information, guys.

[Jim Dye]

Hey Brandon,

Apple updated their laptops today!

Here is what I came up with at the Apple Store For Education.

• 1GHz PowerPC G4

• 512K L2 cache @ 1GHz

• 12-inch TFT Display

• 1024x768 resolution

• 256MB DDR266 SDRAM

• ATI Mobility Radeon 9200

• 32MB DDR video memory

• AirPort Extreme ready

• 256MB DDR266 SDRAM built-in

• 60GB Ultra ATA drive

• Combo drive (DVD/CD-R)

• Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English

• APP for iBook - Enrollment Kit

Subtotal $1,249.00

What a GREAT deal!

[Brandon Burke]

Hey Brandon,

Apple updated their laptops today!

Here is what I came up with at the Apple Store For Education.

• 1GHz PowerPC G4

• 512K L2 cache @ 1GHz

• 12-inch TFT Display

• 1024x768 resolution

• 256MB DDR266 SDRAM

• ATI Mobility Radeon 9200

• 32MB DDR video memory

• AirPort Extreme ready

• 256MB DDR266 SDRAM built-in

• 60GB Ultra ATA drive

• Combo drive (DVD/CD-R)

• Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English

• APP for iBook - Enrollment Kit

Subtotal $1,249.00

What a GREAT deal!

Sweet!

Edited April 19, 2004 by Brandon Burke

[.:.impossible]

I highly recommend the 3 year Apple Care plan. I've replaced my CDRW drive 3 times in the graphite iMac. We haven't used the plan for the iBook yet, but I think it is a good value.

[Christiern]

The new powerbooks are out.

[Brandon Burke]

I highly recommend the 3 year Apple Care plan. I've replaced my CDRW drive 3 times in the graphite iMac. We haven't used the plan for the iBook yet, but I think it is a good value.

Yea, I'm definately doing that.

[Christiern]

Brandon, this link will tell you all about the new G4 iBooks.

[Brandon Burke]

Hey all,

Got the iBook today. I was under the impression that it would automatically pick up my ethernet connection (cable modem). As long as my setting is on "automatic" it should just pick it up, right?

[Brandon Burke]

I got it to work.