Ellington History Box

[David Ayers]

Can anyone comment on sound/content/presentation of this bargainous box?

[couw]

Sound is good, nothing spectacular and the real old stuff from the twenties sounds a bit tinny at times. Packaging is minimal, 20 slim 2CD cases with bare discographical info on dates, tunes and personnel. The box itself is a flimsy cardboard ditty. This set only has the master takes, so it's not as complete as other products out there.

I picked this up when I ran into a "second hand" copy in perfect condition for only 20 euros, a price to low pass on! Have yet to listen through it all.

Edited November 25, 2005 by couw

[Pete B]

I understand that it roughly parallels the Classics series. I think it was the fairly complete master takes throught the 30s into the mid-40s at which point it gets kind of random. I found the sound to be rather compressed and I believe noise reduction was applied - they seemed kind of dead to me.

I ended up liking the music so much that I bought the Masters of Jazz cds instead (superior sound and all the alternates) and then bought the French vinyls to cover the later dates. It was an effective intro to early Ellington, which I quickly learned to love. I think it is an excellent value, especially if you have access to the discographical information from other sources.

[David Ayers]

Thanks guys. This goes for around 40 EUR currently, which sounds about right in terms of your descriptions of it. I'll see if I can slot it into my merciless box set regime!

[bichos]

hello,

i have this box also and i think the sound is absolutly horrible.(and i´m not a friend of hi-fi!) for example: there is an interview with duke from his visit to england, called "a souvenir from d.e.". the sound is so terrible that it´s difficult to understand even a word. sounds like in a box. i would prefer the media 7 masters of jazz series (out of print) or better the "chronological classics" series.

here´s a link about this box:

http://www.depanorama.net/dems/03dems1d.htm

The History 40 CD set

03/1 DEMS 22/1

See DEMS 003/17/3 and 00/3-21.

Here is a rough comparison between the Classics CDs (originating in France), and the 40 CD set as I have it (label "History" originating in Germany). The comparison here is based on the written information on the CDs, not on systematically listening comparison.

The Classics set aims at containing all studio masters from the period covered.

The two sets are much alike, so much, that one is tempted to believe that History has copied the material from Classics.

In The Classics set each CD has 22-24 numbers, against 19-20 on each CD in the History 40 CD set.

The sound is somewhat different, the Classics apparently aiming more for the old 78- sound, but of course without the scratches, the History set more for an analytic sound.

The History set consists of 20 double-CDs in jewel cases, with an inlay with the same introductory article about Ellington in each (in German and in English), and with a list of numbers with dates and personnel, but no other discographical information such as take-numbers, original issues etc.

The Classics have a common introductory article (in English) in each single CD, but also a small article about the specific recordings on the CD in question, and complete discographical information.

Generally there seems to be more accuracy in the overall production of the Classics than in the History set.

Numbers of the Classics set for the period covered by History (1924 - 1946) are: 539, 542, 550, 559, 569, 573, 586, 596, 605, 616, 626, 637, 646, 659, 666, 675, 687, 700, 717, 726, 747, 765, 780, 790, 805, 820, 851, 867, 881, 915, 951, 985, 1015. (33 CDs)

The History set's 20 double CDs have the numbers: 20.4140-302 - 20.4159-302, and "cover" the period 1924 - 1947.

Both Classics and History include only master-takes, not alternates.

As there are more titles on a Classics CD than on a History CD, I do not compare CD to CD, but I state in the following, where there are differences, compared as sets, using the numbers of the History set's double-CDs as point of reference: 40; 42; 43; 44; 46; 47; 48; 49; 50; 54; 56 and 57 have all the same numbers as the Classics set.

41: Same numbers as the Classics, except that History has not East St. Louis Toodle-O 2944-A from Mar28, and The Ozzie Ware items from Dec28: Hit Me in the Nose Blues and It's All Comin' Home to You

45: Same numbers as the Classics set, but Twelfth Street Rag is repeated from 44!

51: Same numbers as the Classics set, but strangely missing the 3 recordings from 20Mar39 ("Fat Stuff" Serenade by the Rex Stewart group, and Pussy Willow and Subtle Lament by the Ellington Orchestra)

52: Same numbers as the Classics set, but History has here the 2 numbers from V- Disc: I'm Checking Out-Goom Bye and Tootin' Through the Roof, recorded 24Nov39, which are placed out of order on Classics 867 (1942-1944)

53: Same numbers as the Classics set, but strangely missing the last 4 numbers from Classics 780, and the first 20 (!) numbers from Classics 790. Thus 24 recordings from 14oct39 until 15Feb40 are missing in the History set (The only two titles from that period in the History set are from 15Feb40, Toasted Pickle and Give It Up by the Cootie Williams group).

Among the missing titles are the first duets with Blanton and the first solos by Ben Webster as a permanent member of the band.

55. Same numbers as the Classics set. So much the same, that the two V-Discs from 24Nov39, I'm Checkin' Out-Goom Bye and Tootin' Through the Roof, which were on History 52 are repeated here!

58. No 1-10: Same numbers as the Classics set, that for the moment didn't go further (Classics 1015).

This seems to have caused the people behind the History set some trouble, because the History no. 58 continues with The Liberian Suite from 24Dec47 (the well known CBS recording) and the second part of the Carnegie Hall concert 4Jan46.

59. First CD contains the first part of the above mentioned Carnegie Hall concert of 4Jan46. The second CD contains the first part of the Carnegie Hall concert of 27Dec47.

Here the History set ends. It looks like it is much inspired by the Classics set or perhaps copying the Classics, but not so thoroughly carried out. Still both sets are full of wonderful music. Some of the recordings (from the 1930's) are hard to get on CD elsewhere. Bjarne Busk

See also Bill Bailey's article in DESUK's Newsletter "Blue Light" Vol. 8 No 4 pages 10 and11. DEMS

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keep boppin´

marcel

[David Ayers]

Thanks for posting that.

Hmm.

I do have some of the material - I'm just trying to work out whether the History box is an in any way tolerable method of filling (big) gaps and then working up from that to better versions of things I actually really want...

[tatifan]

I've got to say that this thing does sound absolutely horrid!! Makes Proper Boxes sound like an SACD. NO highs, NO bass, just a gummy middle range that no amount of eq adjustment can rescue. I got it as a cheap way of filling in gaps in my collection.....but what good is it if I have no desire or ability to actually listen to the thing.

Wish I had saved the $50 and put it towards the RCA box when it was around.

By the way, the recent JSP box purporting to begin an Ellington series is nothing to write home about remastering wise either...although it's certainly better than this German piece of crap!

[David Ayers]

Looks like I'm going to be talked out of this one... why is nothing ever easy?

[couw]

because people want their 80 year old Ellington to sound like it was recorded yesterday? heheh.

Look, it seems they used no-noise and the sound is indeed kind of dead. On the plus side there aren't myriads of pops and crackles to distract you either. I play this stuff in the background while going about my things and for that purpose it really sounds good enough. And with good I mean that the quality does not detract from the content. If you are going to sit down and listen to whether you can hear the Duke's galoshes squeek across the floor, you will be dissappointed and will likely end up with a headache. Of course it can be done to make music like this sound wonderful, but if you are looking for an easy and cheap way to get your Ellington bases covered, this one beats many other options.

Like PeteB wrote: excellent value for money, moreso if you can pick it up for less than list price which does not seem to be too much of a challenge.

I haven't listened through all of the set, but on the parts I did play it was fairly easy to give the ole treble knob a swing and make it all a bit less muddy. Must be my system and my ears.

[RDK]

40 CDs?

If this were a Mosaic box it would cost $680!

[tatifan]

because people want their 80 year old Ellington to sound like it was recorded yesterday? heheh.

Look, it seems they used no-noise and the sound is indeed kind of dead. On the plus side there aren't myriads of pops and crackles to distract you either. I play this stuff in the background while going about my things and for that purpose it really sounds good enough. And with good I mean that the quality does not detract from the content. If you are going to sit down and listen to whether you can hear the Duke's galoshes squeek across the floor, you will be dissappointed and will likely end up with a headache. Of course it can be done to make music like this sound wonderful, but if you are looking for an easy and cheap way to get your Ellington bases covered, this one beats many other options.

Like PeteB wrote: excellent value for money, moreso if you can pick it up for less than list price which does not seem to be too much of a challenge.

I haven't listened through all of the set, but on the parts I did play it was fairly easy to give the ole treble knob a swing and make it all a bit less muddy. Must be my system and my ears.

I don't want it to sound like it was recorded yesterday, I don't want to hear Duke's galoshes, I just want something that sounds just a BIT like the original bloody recordings, which sound quite good when they haven't been sonically raped, rather than the Ellington Orchestra recorded under water! Unfortunately for every J.R.T. Davies quality transfer, there are gobs of these European rip-offs, that take someone else's already questionable work, and further "improve" it. You're right, for the money, you DO get to plug plenty of gaps in the discography, and I DO own the thing, and don't plan on selling it. But, I'm afraid that the color and sonority that are SO important to Ellington's effect are absolutely squashed. And for all the warts, the current Blanton-Webster set from BMG DOES supply this (yes, they DID use some crappy source material for a number of the sides), just to give one example. I also have some of the 80's French RCA LPs (the double lp "Black and White" series ones), and these are a bit overfiltered, but nothing compared to this set's "no highs allowed" philosophy.

You certainly have a right to your opinion. Obviously one man's tolerable is another's unlistenable. I wish I COULD enjoy this set.

A better example of this kind of value, IMHO, is the recent German Membran Artie Shaw set (the 10 cd Begin the Beguine one). It is probably a rip-off of the French Classic label transfers (of which I am NOT a fan, and they're expensive!!), but with less ruinous a sonic hand involved. These are STILL not very good transfers (try the BMG set that Shaw picked the repertory for comparison), but for around $15, go ahead, make my day an Artie Shaw day.