BFT #85 Discussion

[lipi]

This is likely to be a short thread, since:

a) there're only five of you who downloaded it or got a CD, the rest of you are just stressing over your taxes, I guess

b) jeffcrom will likely identify everything on his first try

So...whaddayathink? Does anything strike your fancy? And what do you hate?

[NIS]

I can say that I like music that makes me smile and I'm a fan of the vibe, so track 13 is a winner for me. I've established in the past why I don't make guesses on personnel but this really does sound like Lionel Hampton to me. Not many usual suspects in this time period, so I'm probably not going to far out on a limb. I like pretty much everything about this cut.

[lipi]

I can say that I like music that makes me smile and I'm a fan of the vibe, so track 13 is a winner for me. I've established in the past why I don't make guesses on personnel but this really does sound like Lionel Hampton to me. Not many usual suspects in this time period, so I'm probably not going to far out on a limb. I like pretty much everything about this cut.

It's not Hampton, it turns out, but you're not that far off, really. I'm really glad you liked the track.

[Hot Ptah]

I received your disc today, thanks. I have sent a PM to you.

[NIS]

I can say that I like music that makes me smile and I'm a fan of the vibe, so track 13 is a winner for me. I've established in the past why I don't make guesses on personnel but this really does sound like Lionel Hampton to me. Not many usual suspects in this time period, so I'm probably not going to far out on a limb. I like pretty much everything about this cut.

It's not Hampton, it turns out, but you're not that far off, really. I'm really glad you liked the track.

Well, once again, this is why I shouldn't try to ID musicians. I really did think this sounded like LH, maybe because the playing seem so outgoing. Might be the tune. Anyway, I've been listening to an old Red Norvo box set because he is the only other early vibist I've heard. If this is Norvo I truely have a tin ear because I don't see similarities.

So, in the previous track, "Red don't care what Mama don't allow" is Red Norvo, right? If not, you are really messing with me. )

[Hot Ptah]

I am only up to track 8 but I am loving this BFT!!!! This is one I will play for pleasure long after this test is done.

I think that track 8 is Eddie South, Stephane Grappelli--violins, Django Reinhardt, Roger Chaput--guitars, Wilson Myers--bass, on "Dinah", recorded in 1937.

I have this on a CD reissue entitled "Eddie South In Paris 1929 and 1937", on the Disques Swing label.

[lipi]

Well, once again, this is why I shouldn't try to ID musicians. I really did think this sounded like LH, maybe because the playing seem so outgoing. Might be the tune. Anyway, I've been listening to an old Red Norvo box set because he is the only other early vibist I've heard. If this is Norvo I truely have a tin ear because I don't see similarities.

No, your ears are fine: it's not Norvo. For what it's worth, I think I would have guessed Hampton, too, had I not heard the track before.

So, in the previous track, "Red don't care what Mama don't allow" is Red Norvo, right? If not, you are really messing with me. )

That is indeed Norvo. Any guesses on the others being name dropped?

I think that track 8 is Eddie South, Stephane Grappelli--violins, Django Reinhardt, Roger Chaput--guitars, Wilson Myers--bass, on "Dinah", recorded in 1937.

I have this on a CD reissue entitled "Eddie South In Paris 1929 and 1937", on the Disques Swing label.

Yup, that's the one! I love the contrast between Eddie and Stephane.

[NIS]

That is indeed Norvo. Any guesses on the others being name dropped?

Any other guesses would be just based on names, not because I know anything. That's no fun.

[Spontooneous]

More later, but quickly for now:

Is 10 one of the Edmond Hall quartets with Teddy Wilson?

I'd have to turn in my Kansas City credentials if I didn't recognize Julia Lee on 12.

This is fun, Alex!

[Hot Ptah]

Is #12?:

Julia Lee - Mama Don't Allow It June 16, 1947

Julia Lee (vocal,piano) accompanied by Bobby Sherwood (trumpet) Vic Dickenson (trombone) Benny Carter (alto sax) Dave Cavanaugh (tenor sax) Red Norvo (xylophone) Jack Marshall (guitar) Red Callender (bass) Sam "Baby" Lovett (drums)

#5 sounds like Fletcher Henderson to me, either Fletcher's band or someone else's band arranged by Fletcher. I am not coming any closer to a guess so far.

I hear Sidney Bechet on #9, but can't place the recording otherwise.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Hot Ptah

[NIS]

I've been enjoying the two vocal blues tracks 14 and 15, probably 14 most. I would call the vocals quirky (in a good way) but I have absolutely no point of reference. Maybe they are typical for this kind of stuff. I like it.

[Spontooneous]

OK, here goes.

1. Not much to say about this one, except that the trombone solo is serious as a heart attack. Some of the rest seems a little academic.

2. Circa 1927. The arranger does a good job of imitating what Don Redman was doing with Fletcher Henderson four years earlier (dig those intricate interludes between choruses).

3. Circa 1929. It does a nice job of getting that McKinney's Cotton Pickers feel, but I don't think it's them. The looseness is appealing, and really pretty rare for recordings of the time. OK, you musicologists out there: What's the earliest recording of people clapping on the backbeat?

4. "Darktown Strutters Ball," circa 1936. Slightly militaristic drumming. Is that the real Coleman Hawkins or a good imitation? Is this one of Hawkins' recordings from Europe?

5. We're up to circa 1938. The clarinet makes me think this is Artie Shaw. Beautiful.

6. At first, sounds like a Raymond Scott concoction (love the bowed bass). After a minute, it loosens up nicely. No guess.

7. That hooting sound in the sax section makes me think that Tex Beneke is involved.

8. Hot Ptah already nailed it. I've always loved Eddie South and his big, rich tone. And that geetar player.

9. It's gotta be Bechet, though I can't identify the individual side. I love how he takes his time and lets this one build up before he even comes in. And when he does, the temperature shoots up. Maybe his horn bullied the rest of the band sometimes, but on this one he's leading by persuasion. This is powerful stuff.

10. I still think it's an Edmond Hall quartet with Teddy Wilson, probably on Commodore.

11. Once upon a time, this kind of music was a very good idea. It's Track 9 here.

12. Julia Lee for Capitol, with Red Norvo and Benny Carter.

13. That's gotta be Benny Goodman. If not, it's somebody who's studied BG's motor habits very closely. Is this from the Yale Archives series?

14. Back Water Blues. Is that Maria Muldaur? Not her best work; to sing this powerful song, you have to stand back and let the words do the work. Is that Bob Brozman on dobro?

15. Maybe the same session as 14? I like the singing MUCH better here.

16. Don't have much to say about this one. The close, flat recording is very unflattering to the clarinet and guitar. I like the bassist.

17. The only thing on here that's really too retro for me. Do they really have to put all that skill to work on such a lame old tune?

18. A few times I think there's more than two hands on the keyboard here. It's lovely, a fearsome display of chops, but there's much more to it than that.

This is a good time, and I'll be eagerly waiting the reveal! Thanks, Alex.

(Edited to fix a botched link.)

Edited April 12, 2011 by Spontooneous

[lipi]

Is 10 one of the Edmond Hall quartets with Teddy Wilson?

I'd have to turn in my Kansas City credentials if I didn't recognize Julia Lee on 12.

This is fun, Alex!

Yup, 10 is indeed Edmond Hall with Teddy Wilson, and 12 is Julia Lee, of course.

Glad you're enjoying it!

Is #12?:

Julia Lee - Mama Don't Allow It June 16, 1947

Julia Lee (vocal,piano) accompanied by Bobby Sherwood (trumpet) Vic Dickenson (trombone) Benny Carter (alto sax) Dave Cavanaugh (tenor sax) Red Norvo (xylophone) Jack Marshall (guitar) Red Callender (bass) Sam "Baby" Lovett (drums)

Yup, that's the exact one.

#5 sounds like Fletcher Henderson to me, either Fletcher's band or someone else's band arranged by Fletcher. I am not coming any closer to a guess so far.

It's not a Fletcher arrangement, but you're in the right ballpark.

I've been enjoying the two vocal blues tracks 14 and 15, probably 14 most. I would call the vocals quirky (in a good way) but I have absolutely no point of reference. Maybe they are typical for this kind of stuff. I like it.

Good to hear!

[lipi]

O.K., I can't get the quoting to behave, so it'll be messy:

1. Not much to say about this one, except that the trombone solo is serious as a heart attack. Some of the rest seems a little academic.

2. Circa 1927. The arranger does a good job of imitating what Don Redman was doing with Fletcher Henderson four years earlier (dig those intricate interludes between choruses).

1: I'm glad you picked out the trombone--it's the leader playing.

2: Spot on on the year.

3. Circa 1929. It does a nice job of getting that McKinney's Cotton Pickers feel, but I don't think it's them. The looseness is appealing, and really pretty rare for recordings of the time. OK, you musicologists out there: What's the earliest recording of people clapping on the backbeat?

4. "Darktown Strutters Ball," circa 1936. Slightly militaristic drumming. Is that the real Coleman Hawkins or a good imitation? Is this one of Hawkins' recordings from Europe?

3: Again, you're right on the money with the year. (And it isn't McKinney's.)

4: It's a little later, but yes, that's really Hawk, and it's indeed from Europe. This is, in my opinion, the best of the bunch he made with this particular band.

5. We're up to circa 1938. The clarinet makes me think this is Artie Shaw. Beautiful.

7. That hooting sound in the sax section makes me think that Tex Beneke is involved.

5: Not Shaw! This one fooled Hot Ptah, too.

7: Excellent ear! Want to take a stab at the group and maybe the year?

9. It's gotta be Bechet, though I can't identify the individual side. I love how he takes his time and lets this one build up before he even comes in. And when he does, the temperature shoots up. Maybe his horn bullied the rest of the band sometimes, but on this one he's leading by persuasion. This is powerful stuff.

10. I still think it's an Edmond Hall quartet with Teddy Wilson, probably on Commodore.

9: Bechet, as Hot Ptah also noted. This side isn't as well known as I think it ought to be. It's been played a lot in swing dance circles in the past ten years or so, but I've had several (trad) jazz fan friends go "huh?" when I mentioned it or played it for them.

10: Yes, sorry for not replying earlier--you're right on both musicians. And indeed it was on Commodore.

11. Once upon a time, this kind of music was a very good idea. It's Track 9 here.

12. Julia Lee for Capitol, with Red Norvo and Benny Carter.

11: Yup! (So do you think it isn't anymore?)

12: Yup, identified above.

13. That's gotta be Benny Goodman. If not, it's somebody who's studied BG's motor habits very closely. Is this from the Yale Archives series?

14. Back Water Blues. Is that Maria Muldaur? Not her best work; to sing this powerful song, you have to stand back and let the words do the work. Is that Bob Brozman on dobro?

13: Hmm...one vote for Goodman, and one earlier for Hampton! I think the people playing would be honored.

14: Nope, not Muldaur nor Brozman. I'm very fond of this vocalist, but every time I've heard a recording I've been a little disappointed. (Will have to check out Muldaur now.)

15. Maybe the same session as 14? I like the singing MUCH better here.

17. The only thing on here that's really too retro for me. Do they really have to put all that skill to work on such a lame old tune?

15: Different group and different vocalist, though there are some ties.

17: Hah. Fair enough--but you do admit there's quite a lot of skill there, right?

18. A few times I think there's more than two hands on the keyboard here. It's lovely, a fearsome display of chops, but there's much more to it than that.

18: I'm glad you like this! I love this pianist.

Thanks for all the guesses and comments!

Edited April 13, 2011 by alex.

[jeffcrom]

I'm a little late to the party - I've been pretty busy for an old retired guy. As usual, I haven't read any of the thread, although I'm looking forward to reading it in about two minutes.

1. A fair-to-middling reading of “St. James Infirmary.” The vocal (by the trombonist, I assume) is kind of stiff, but other than that this is a nice version. The clarinetist is the best thing about this track – really nice playing. I almost recognize the voice that announces the track, but I can’t quite place it.

2. An interesting, not great early big band track. It sounds like Bennie Moten to me, but I don’t recognize the piece. I like the fact that there’s a bass sax solo, even if I don’t like the solo very much. Also not crazy about about the clarinetist, who’s pretty corny, in my opinion. The trumpeter (or trumpeters) are better, and are the best thing about the track. This is one of the pieces that sounds almost familiar, but not quite.

3. Nice tuba on this one – and excellent trumpet. Is the trumpeter the leader? Alto and bari sax solos are also good, although not particularly distinguished. The singing/chanting got a little old for me, but I imagine that’s why most folks bought the record at the time. It’s kind of odd that the full ensemble is only used at the beginning – the whole group never plays together after the first few measures.

4. This is a good one. It’s Coleman Hawkins with Jack Hylton’s English big band, playing a Fletcher Henderson arrangement in 1939. Bean is in prime form here; this is the last recording session he made before returning to the U.S. after almost five years in Europe, and he’s a monster. The band sounds good, too, although I would have liked to hear a hipper drummer. The other soloists are good, but I don’t know who they are. This is Hawk’s show, anyway. Outstanding!

5. I recognized the drummer before I recognized the band. It’s “Harlem Congo” by Chick Webb and His Orchestra, from 1937. Bobby Stark is the trumpet soloist, Sandy Williams is on trombone, and I presume it’s Chauncey Haughton on clarinet. Webb is fantastic here, as is the whole band. This is a really exciting record, and an excellent transfer.

6. Another drum feature, hurt by the programming – it’s kind of a letdown after the last track. This one sounds mid-thirties, and it’s okay. The drummer is actually pretty good, but otherwise, this one didn’t send me that much. No idea who it is.

7. I was all prepared to dislike this one, based on the intro, but it just got better and better. Good solos, especially the interesting trumpeter. Middle of the forties, I would guess, but I don’t know who it is. Nice, though.

8. For awhile it seemed to be a rule that all blindfold tests had to have either Sun Ra or Django Reinhardt. I wouldn’t expect Alex to include Sunny, so I’m glad to hear some Django, even if he doesn’t solo here. He’s accompanying two great violinists, Stephane Grappelli and Eddie South, on a 1937 recording. Grappelli goes first, if I’m not mistaken. This is just great – every violinist in every symphony orchestra on the planet needs to hear this record.

9. Jeez, I had forgotten how good this was. It’s Sidney Bechet on Blue Note, playing the alternate take of “Blues My Naughty Sweetie Gave to Me” from 1951. It took me a minute to recognize the tune – most folks play it faster than this. Pretty good band, especially Sidney DeParis and Pops Foster, but nothing else really matters except for Bechet. He just sings – beautiful!

10. I don’t know this recording, but it’s Ed Hall for sure, and Teddy Wilson, I think. Beautiful playing – class, swing, melody; wonderful stuff. I love Ed Hall; I need to get this.

11. One of the “Great Sixteen” – the 16 sides Muggsy Spanier’s Ragtime Jazz Band made for Bluebird in 1939. I love them all; I love Muggsy; I love this song. New Orleans veteran George Brunies is on trombone and does the vocal, and Joe Bushkin plays that great piano solo. To me, Muggsy represents what every jazz musician who is a not a genius or innovator should aspire to – he was a consummate player who knew a million tunes, and who blended his influences into a personal style. More wonderful music – thanks for including this.

12. You’re killing me, Alex! You’ve included so much stuff I just love. This is the great Julia Lee, whom I discovered on 78s as a teenager. I couldn’t get enough so I bought her complete recordings – the only Bear Family set I own. A couple of times a year, Capitol Records would bring Julia out to LA from her native Kansas City and record her with some killer sidemen. Most of these guys would not be hard to identify even if Julia didn’t name them – Benny Carter, Red Norvo, Vic Dickenson – although I had forgotten that Bobby Sherwood played trumpet on some of these sides. Julia holds her own on piano in this distinguished company, although most folks probably bought the record for her singing. By the way, Benny Carter wrote some pretty good dirty songs for Julia to record, although he used a pseudonym.

13. A kind of corny arrangement of a corny song (which I kind of like, though). Nothing earth-shattering here. The clarinet player has a very nice sound. Nothing I would need to hear again, though.

14. Bessie Smith’s “Back Water Blues,” played by some young New Orleans guys and girls, I would guess. I like it, but my favorite cover version of this song is by the great Irma Thomas, from the Our New Orleans Katrina benefit album on Nonesuch. This is nice, though.

15. Nice enough. I’d love listening to this in a little club on Frenchmen Street. The singer’s voice is a little nasal for my tastes, though. I like the instrumentation – I dig the fiddle and tuba.

16. Pretty cool – Bechet’s “Egyptian Fantasy” (well, Bechet claimed it, anyway) played by a cool little group. The clarinetist has that New Orleans sound, and I can’t get enough bass sax. I like this, and am looking forward to finding out who it is.

17. Nice song – I don’t know it. Good little trad group – everybody’s good, even if nobody is amazing. Again, I’d love hearing this in a bar.

18. Wow – is this “You Made Me What I Am Today?” What a great old song, although I’ve never heard it played like this. Someone’s got some chops – and imagination. I don’t have any idea who it is, although it reminds me of Steve Pistorius, the New Orleans stride pianist. Whoever it is, this is great.

Really interesting selection of music, Alex. I enjoyed this BFT very much - thanks for putting it together.

[jeffcrom]

After reading the thread:

Well, thanks for the flattery in post #1, but as you can see, there was a lot I didn't know.

Is the trombonist/leader on track 1 Big Bill Bissonette?

[lipi]

2. An interesting, not great early big band track. It sounds like Bennie Moten to me, but I don’t recognize the piece. I like the fact that there’s a bass sax solo, even if I don’t like the solo very much. Also not crazy about about the clarinetist, who’s pretty corny, in my opinion. The trumpeter (or trumpeters) are better, and are the best thing about the track. This is one of the pieces that sounds almost familiar, but not quite.

3. Nice tuba on this one – and excellent trumpet. Is the trumpeter the leader? Alto and bari sax solos are also good, although not particularly distinguished. The singing/chanting got a little old for me, but I imagine that’s why most folks bought the record at the time. It’s kind of odd that the full ensemble is only used at the beginning – the whole group never plays together after the first few measures.

2. Not Moten.

3. Nope. That's the leader on the bari, though.

4. This is a good one. It’s Coleman Hawkins with Jack Hylton’s English big band, playing a Fletcher Henderson arrangement in 1939. Bean is in prime form here; this is the last recording session he made before returning to the U.S. after almost five years in Europe, and he’s a monster. The band sounds good, too, although I would have liked to hear a hipper drummer. The other soloists are good, but I don’t know who they are. This is Hawk’s show, anyway. Outstanding!

5. I recognized the drummer before I recognized the band. It’s “Harlem Congo” by Chick Webb and His Orchestra, from 1937. Bobby Stark is the trumpet soloist, Sandy Williams is on trombone, and I presume it’s Chauncey Haughton on clarinet. Webb is fantastic here, as is the whole band. This is a really exciting record, and an excellent transfer.

4. Yes!

5. Yes, and that is indeed Chauncey Haughton on clarinet.

6. Another drum feature, hurt by the programming – it’s kind of a letdown after the last track. This one sounds mid-thirties, and it’s okay. The drummer is actually pretty good, but otherwise, this one didn’t send me that much. No idea who it is.

I never thought of this track as a drum feature. The drummer is excellent, though. I wish I hadn't placed this right after "Harlem Congo"--you're right there. Maybe listen to it again by itself? It may sound better and you may be able to pick up on some of the pretty big names here.

7. I was all prepared to dislike this one, based on the intro, but it just got better and better. Good solos, especially the interesting trumpeter. Middle of the forties, I would guess, but I don’t know who it is. Nice, though.

8. For awhile it seemed to be a rule that all blindfold tests had to have either Sun Ra or Django Reinhardt. I wouldn’t expect Alex to include Sunny, so I’m glad to hear some Django, even if he doesn’t solo here. He’s accompanying two great violinists, Stephane Grappelli and Eddie South, on a 1937 recording. Grappelli goes first, if I’m not mistaken. This is just great – every violinist in every symphony orchestra on the planet needs to hear this record.

7. I'm glad this grew on you. Someone more or less identified it.

8. My guess was that Eddie goes first, actually, but I don't know for sure!

9. Jeez, I had forgotten how good this was. It’s Sidney Bechet on Blue Note, playing the alternate take of “Blues My Naughty Sweetie Gave to Me” from 1951. It took me a minute to recognize the tune – most folks play it faster than this. Pretty good band, especially Sidney DeParis and Pops Foster, but nothing else really matters except for Bechet. He just sings – beautiful!

11. One of the “Great Sixteen” – the 16 sides Muggsy Spanier’s Ragtime Jazz Band made for Bluebird in 1939. I love them all; I love Muggsy; I love this song. New Orleans veteran George Brunies is on trombone and does the vocal, and Joe Bushkin plays that great piano solo. To me, Muggsy represents what every jazz musician who is a not a genius or innovator should aspire to – he was a consummate player who knew a million tunes, and who blended his influences into a personal style. More wonderful music – thanks for including this.

9. That's the one.

11. Yes! I didn't know Brunies does the vocal--cool.

12. You’re killing me, Alex! You’ve included so much stuff I just love. This is the great Julia Lee, whom I discovered on 78s as a teenager. I couldn’t get enough so I bought her complete recordings – the only Bear Family set I own. A couple of times a year, Capitol Records would bring Julia out to LA from her native Kansas City and record her with some killer sidemen. Most of these guys would not be hard to identify even if Julia didn’t name them – Benny Carter, Red Norvo, Vic Dickenson – although I had forgotten that Bobby Sherwood played trumpet on some of these sides. Julia holds her own on piano in this distinguished company, although most folks probably bought the record for her singing. By the way, Benny Carter wrote some pretty good dirty songs for Julia to record, although he used a pseudonym.

13. A kind of corny arrangement of a corny song (which I kind of like, though). Nothing earth-shattering here. The clarinet player has a very nice sound. Nothing I would need to hear again, though.

12. I've been drooling over that Bear set, but my Mosaic queue is such that it'll be a while till I get to purchasing it. Anyway: it's Julia and it's excellent.

13. I don't think of the arrangement as corny, but I know where it came from, so I may be biased. Someone else agreed on the clarinet's sound, too.

14. Bessie Smith’s “Back Water Blues,” played by some young New Orleans guys and girls, I would guess. I like it, but my favorite cover version of this song is by the great Irma Thomas, from the Our New Orleans Katrina benefit album on Nonesuch. This is nice, though.

15. Nice enough. I’d love listening to this in a little club on Frenchmen Street. The singer’s voice is a little nasal for my tastes, though. I like the instrumentation – I dig the fiddle and tuba.

14. Will have to look up Irma Thomas! And, yes, these are New Orleans guys and girls.

15. And in fact you *could* listen to this in a club on Frenchmen Street!

16. Pretty cool – Bechet’s “Egyptian Fantasy” (well, Bechet claimed it, anyway) played by a cool little group. The clarinetist has that New Orleans sound, and I can’t get enough bass sax. I like this, and am looking forward to finding out who it is.

17. Nice song – I don’t know it. Good little trad group – everybody’s good, even if nobody is amazing. Again, I’d love hearing this in a bar.

16. Right song ID, and the clarinetist is from New Orleans.

17. You're more likely to hear it on the trad jazz festival circuit than in a bar, though.

18. Wow – is this “You Made Me What I Am Today?” What a great old song, although I’ve never heard it played like this. Someone’s got some chops – and imagination. I don’t have any idea who it is, although it reminds me of Steve Pistorius, the New Orleans stride pianist. Whoever it is, this is great.

Not "You Made Me What I Am Today". The pianist lived in New Orleans for nine years, but he's not originally from there (or even from the U.S.).

Thanks for listening! And I'm glad I stumped you a little more than last time around.

Is the trombonist/leader on track 1 Big Bill Bissonette?

Nope.

[NIS]

So, I've been thinking about the vibes player on track 13. The only other early on vibes I have read about is Adrian Rollini. I've never heard him so I did the google thing and found some clips. I don't think this is your guy but I kind of like the way he plays. Thanks for getting me to look into someone I'd never heard before.

[mikeweil]

Thanks for this enjoyable compilation, very well paced and selected. I do not know enough about music from these areas, but of course I have guesses for # 12, kind of a giveaway track with the cute singer's announcement: The Benny, Vic, and Red in question should be Carter, Dickenson, and Norvo.

I'm really curious about who all these players are ....