Michael Fitzgerald

Temp stuff is - well, temporary. It's not meant for long term access. The Bee Hive discography is still "beta" as far as I'm concerned. When it becomes "final" I'll link it on other pages on both my websites. At that point it will be propogated into the search engines, etc. But for now I suppose the only people who have seen it are folks reading this thread. Mike

The discography? http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Temp/beehive.htm but that's only its temporary address. When it's completed, I'll move it somewhere else. Haven't decided exactly where since it's the first label discography that the site will have (as opposed to the label listings, which is where this whole discussion got started). Mike

Does this connect up with Ran Blake's "The Blue Potato (and other outrages)"? Mike

Sort order means the sequence in which you list the players of the different instruments. If you have a trio, do you list Paul Motian (d), Bill Evans (p), Scott LaFaro (b) or do you list it (p, b, d) or (b, p, d) or (p, d, b) - that idea. It goes back to how composers write scores and is called "score order" - certain instruments go at the top of the page, and certain ones go at the bottom. There's a general agreement on most of these things, although there are variations out there. Orchestral music, for example, starts with the woodwinds: piccolo, flutes, oboes, bassoon, clarinet, bass clarinet, alto saxophones, tenor saxophones, baritone saxophones, trumpets, horns, trombones, tuba, percussion, THEN strings (violins, violas, cellos, basses) at the bottom. Of course some works use more or fewer instruments. A typical 17-piece big band score is written: alto 1, alto 2, tenor 1, tenor 2, baritone, trumpet 1, trumpet 2, trumpet 3, trumpet 4, trombone 1, trombone 2, trombone 3, bass trombone, guitar, piano, bass, drums. (So for the initial example, we always do p, b, d.) So, when doing a discography, the sort order (see the second half of the mf-axlist.htm page I listed above) should mirror the score order. What is tricky is things within the section - often it is impossible to know or impractical to use the order of players on trumpet 1, trumpet 2, trumpet 3, trumpet 4. So the BRIAN program lists the players alphabetically by last name. Another area is doubling - when one person plays two different instruments. The program is set up to use the highest sorting instrument as the one it sorts by. So someone who plays flute AND tenor saxophone will sort before someone who only plays alto saxophone. A last tricky area is the idea of a violin player who isn't a member of a strings section, but is more a "horn" player. At this point, BRIAN just keeps all violins after the rhythm section. The traditional score order is at odds with a number of jazz discographies as they treat a big band as "brass and reeds" - trumpets and trombones before saxophones, then rhythm. But it's my feeling this is just because someone arbitrarily decided on it without being aware of the hundreds of years of established tradition that exist in musical scores. The score order that I use has the support of that tradition (even if there are a few things in uncharted territory, like do you sort kora before or after oud? - most times you don't need to worry about them being on the same session). Whew - well, you asked...... Mike

If you have a question, I'll be happy to give my take on it. (That take, of course, might be incomplete, false start, alternative, or master, depending.) Past the basics, there are a few formats out there that each have some benefits. The perfect one hasn't been found yet. It might never be found. But we should surely be striving to at LEAST give all the details included in Rust - and hopefully adding to the knowledge by adding personnel specifics, composers, track timings, issue titles and release dates, studios/concert halls, etc. Regarding abbreviations, you can see the list I use here: http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Artists/mf-axlist.htm I have my own rationale for those. Also for things like instrument sort order. Glad to expound if you'd like. 600 sessions is really not much in the scheme of things. I did fifteen sessions (including most of the research) in a couple hours the other night for the Bee Hive discography - mathematically, 600 would be 40 evenings work. Now, if I have all the info in front of me and it's just entry, that can zoom along. The boxed sets listed here were (all but maybe three or four) entered in the span of about a month. http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Temp/boxedsets.htm Mike

Thanks to Marty for sending me a tape of the mono version of Brubeck's Angel Eyes LP. Finally got a chance to sit down and compare the two versions of this. "Will You Still Be Mine" is the only tune that has different takes on the mono and stereo issues. And man, both are really good. Mike

Latest and greatest now up. The BH 01 track sequence is noted and entered, but won't show up until I do an issue index. Hoping that Jim Neumann will be able to assist so that true recording sequence can be shown for each session instead of issue track sequence, but it will have to do until the real thing comes along. Mike

I will want that track sequence info - if anything is wrong, just resequence: a, b, d, c, f, e. Thanks! Mike

OK - I've made all changes and will have the new version up later this afternoon. If I could get release years for all the ones that are missing, that would be super. This means everything except 7000, 7001, 7009, 7012, 7016. Just dotting the i's. Also - is studio correct for 7007? I would assume so, but..... Thanks for the great teamwork. Mike P.S. - Manhattan Project was one I already had from my Art Davis work. It's in there, complete.

Four!

Hey, this *is* the information SUPERhighway.... Beta 3 now online - this is all the sessions in at least as good as they appear in general discographies. Most are better - now, please give me timings, release years, studios, etc. for what I don't have - also corrections, personnel specifics, etc. Mike

Beta 1 here: http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Temp/beehive.htm make that Beta 2 Mike

OK - who's got the Dick Katz LP? Hit me with the info. Timings, who plays on which tracks (and does Wess only play tenor on Basie)? Did Katz write that one and No Matter What? Any clue on which tunes were recorded which days? Studio? Release year? Mike

Hard to believe after producing all that stuff that there could be any crap left in him. Then again, that was probably only the tip of the crapberg. Mike

Well, it might happen. Shoot, I've already got two of the 17 done from my Art Davis discography. At least there aren't a billion and three reissues of this stuff. I myself don't own everything - but apparently Bill Fenohr does. Actually, you know what - if he or other Beehive collectors are game and can answer some questions (along the lines of my recent Blue Note inquiry - issue sequence, composers, timings), I'll finish it and have it online by Christmas. If our man Sheldon can hook me up with Jim Neumann to get production notes (detailed take information, etc.) I will promise you the moon. D'oh!!! - what have I just said? I need another project like I need a hole in the head. Well, the offer stands. Be careful what you wish for. Mike

But the assumption people seem to be making is that he's CORRECT about the technical. He ain't. Mike

Uncharitably - because I see no reason to be charitable: Good ears? Analysis? No, this guy is just an idiot. As someone who has transcribed and arranged the suite for large ensemble, I will certainly disagree about any "lack of melodies" - you want for me to sing them now? I'm sure there are many other musicians who can do the same. BTW, the "transcriptions" in the review are wrong. There are missing notes (and without the rhythms, or at least some attempt at showing durations, it's pretty stupid). You want a real analysis by a real musician? Read chapter 17 in the Lewis Porter biography of Coltrane. Porter wrote his PhD dissertation on the suite. Porter describes a large scale "overall tonal plan" and shows the connections between material in the different movements of the suite. The fucking bonehead doesn't get it. Period. Like the fact that "Psalm" (which is mistitled in the review as "Psalsms") is a syllable-by-syllable reading in music of the poem "A Love Supreme" - sigh - in the days before the Internet, such a moron would have no outlet for spouting these asinine inanities. Glad he put in "For me" (the music says nothing and goes nowhere) and IMO. Misspelled words, poor grammar, OK - enough. Such crap doesn't even merit discussion. Mike

No, it's not a work in progress in that way. It's just one of over several hundred label listings hosted on my site or related sites. Personnel you can look up in a general discography. One of the points of the project is that album titles frequently are not given in general discographies. Also, as most people know, it's nice to see the entire catalog of a label all in one place. Mike

Beautiful - just need Soul Symphony and in less than a day, I'll have had a number of questions answered very efficiently. Thanks to all. The Elegant Soul listing reminds me of another puzzle that I just solved - V. Pea? What kind of name is that? Known Blue Note compositions - the two from The Three Sounds: Elegant Soul Do It Right Now Elegant Soul four from Blue Mitchell: Collision In Black I Ain't Jivin' Jo Ju Ja Keep Your Nose Clean Kick It and one from Blue Mitchell: Bantu Village Bush Girl Frequent collaborator is Dee Ervin. I was thinking that V. Pea (or Vee Pea, as it is expanded in other sources such as the GEMA database) might be reference to VP - a Vice President, maybe of Liberty/Blue Note? Hmmmm. In fact, it's Virginia P. Bland, according to BMI (where I learned she composed over 100 tunes). This is someone I know nothing else about. If anyone's got more, I'd be curious to know. Mike

Fascinating that three of the tunes are by Dave Burns. Thanks! Mike

Thanks! No composers listed? Mike

Thanks - looks like Lord copied that right out of Bruyninckx since it's identically wrong there. Mike

I was waiting until next year for the 80th anniversary. Mike

Thanks! I don't need any personnel, recording dates, locations, etc. All that stuff is in the Cuscuna/Ruppli book. What I'm interested in is the information that isn't. Mike

Then I must be a great teacher, because I got all kinds of students who can't remember the circle of fifths. Mike