Michael Fitzgerald

I watched this a few nights ago and don't remember the Jarrett quote as you have it. I just recall him saying Chick was playing electric piano, so he was forced to play organ. "I don't know which I hated more" was the gist of it. In fact, Jarrett plays RMI electra-piano in the footage. And Corea doesn't play the expected Fender Rhodes, but actually plays Hohner Pianet. For those who care. Highly recommended - the collection of interviews might even be better than the IOW performance. Wish they talked to a few more of the electric alumni, like McLaughlin, Shorter, Bennie Maupin, Billy Cobham, Lenny White, et al. Seems like there was some other kind of focus at one point because there's that interview with Marcus Miller that wasn't used at all in the main film, but is there in the bonus features. Mike

Thanks - yes, I meant to include the Sickler. The others I was considering just as reissues of earlier numbers (albeit with bonus tracks). Mike

My view is that anything recorded before the label's existence - the Bird, Lee Wiley, Chet Baker, Serge Chaloff, etc. are not "Uptown sessions" - they are private tapes later issued by Uptown. So they would be included in a different kind of listing. Re: master/matrix numbers - this is the kind of thing that is only known by the producer/company. If they can be learned, great - especially if we can learn about take numbers, etc. If we can learn recording sequence (even without any numbers), great. Sequence the selections as they were performed at the session. If, as in MANY cases, we have NO idea as to the recording sequence, I use the original issue sequence, showing a-01 for side A, track 1, etc. That way someone looking at the discography will know that the source of sequence is the ISSUE, not the recording log. Most discographies don't bother to make this distinction (and many list issue sequence but just don't tell you). I did a look at the listing, I would say everything up to 34 would be in (including the unissued stuff if that wasn't "historical" material), then 37, 43 - I think that's it. Mike

I'd forgotten that Noal Cohen had done the Dameronia one - I will get him to send me that session. Mike

Is the above facetious? If so, it's very subtle.... No need to read any further. If not, it was Atlantic Records that had the warehouse fire, not Columbia. This was 1976. Mike

The Kenny Barron (issue known as Autumn In New York or New York Attitude), and the second session for Transblucency/Uptown Christmas were the other two sessions. Mike

I'm flabbergasted at the mention of Perry Robinson in this context. How on earth is he under-recorded (later in life)? Please see the discography on my website. I mean, sure, we'd love more, but he's *constantly* doing recordings and they're being issued. I can't keep up with him he's so prolific. And Perry was a *leader* in 1962 (he was 23). Under-recognized, fine, but he did and does record. And the material has been issued. Henry Grimes? Is someone not getting the point of this thread? [next question: is it me?] Henry Grimes started recording back in 1957 (he was 22) and was steadily doing so all the way up until he moved to California in 1967. One that I think IS worth mentioning is Sam Rivers who NEVER recorded in the 1950s, right? Appeared on that December 1961 Dameron session for Blue Note that remained unheard until 1999. Then he joined Miles Davis in 1964, one live album unheard until - when? And only in Japan at first, right? Then later on Heard 'Round The World. So his first session ISSUED at the time was Lifetime by Tony Williams from August 1964. At which point, Sam was about 40 years old, right? Look, Sam was born BEFORE Clifford Brown. He could have had significant documentation going back maybe even to the late 1940s. BTW, the above is accurate - unless anyone has information on the two legendary recordings: with J. C. Higginbotham and Paul Gonsalves. These supposedly precede the Dameron date. Were they released? Dunno. It's a mystery. Mike

I would again be happy to put together a definitive discography on this label (which would mean only Uptown's original sessions, not their reissues - the Mingus, for example), particularly if previously unknown session details could be included. There are around 50 issues. I find that I have six sessions already entered from research on Kenny Barron, Bill Triglia, and Slide Hampton. But shoot, if some others would take the time to download BRIAN and help out, it would make things a lot easier. Those people could each enter the sessions for the albums they own and then export and email the XML files so we could get everything in one central database to create the master listing. The technology is there, the interest is there, it just takes the effort. Mike

Just checked and those little corrections mentioned were already in place. You just need to read the personnel exceptions more carefully because it's just the way it lists things - it depends on what percentage of the tracks someone plays or lays out on. So in the case of the Katz, Frank Wess only plays on four tracks total, three on flute and one on tenor. He doesn't need to be omitted from the rest. He's just added for those four. Mike

The "biography" articles are pretty bad. Just a silly album by album "and then he made this record, and then he made that record" deal. The Art Blakey one particularly rubbed me the wrong way (though I was credited) - don't ask me why it stopped all of a sudden at 1985. I find quite a bit of interesting stuff in the interviews but I definitely do not like the "cookie-cutter" approach of asking everyone the same questions. That's nice if you're doing a dissertation or something and you're going to present it as such, but particularly in the same magazine issue, it's stupid - and lazy, if you ask me. Still, I'm a charter subscriber and am not about to drop it. Supposedly it's going to be more regular (4x/year). Whatever. Mike

I think you want this: http://www.normanfield.fsnet.co.uk/rollini.htm Mike P.S. - and having actually *thought* for once about the goofus, I have changed its sort order (so the axlist link is now updated). Not that it matters much - I never ever have needed to include it in a discography, and chances are exceedingly slim that I ever will.

Temp stuff is - well, temporary. It's not meant for long term access. The Bee Hive discography is still "beta" as far as I'm concerned. When it becomes "final" I'll link it on other pages on both my websites. At that point it will be propogated into the search engines, etc. But for now I suppose the only people who have seen it are folks reading this thread. Mike

The discography? http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Temp/beehive.htm but that's only its temporary address. When it's completed, I'll move it somewhere else. Haven't decided exactly where since it's the first label discography that the site will have (as opposed to the label listings, which is where this whole discussion got started). Mike

Does this connect up with Ran Blake's "The Blue Potato (and other outrages)"? Mike

Sort order means the sequence in which you list the players of the different instruments. If you have a trio, do you list Paul Motian (d), Bill Evans (p), Scott LaFaro (b) or do you list it (p, b, d) or (b, p, d) or (p, d, b) - that idea. It goes back to how composers write scores and is called "score order" - certain instruments go at the top of the page, and certain ones go at the bottom. There's a general agreement on most of these things, although there are variations out there. Orchestral music, for example, starts with the woodwinds: piccolo, flutes, oboes, bassoon, clarinet, bass clarinet, alto saxophones, tenor saxophones, baritone saxophones, trumpets, horns, trombones, tuba, percussion, THEN strings (violins, violas, cellos, basses) at the bottom. Of course some works use more or fewer instruments. A typical 17-piece big band score is written: alto 1, alto 2, tenor 1, tenor 2, baritone, trumpet 1, trumpet 2, trumpet 3, trumpet 4, trombone 1, trombone 2, trombone 3, bass trombone, guitar, piano, bass, drums. (So for the initial example, we always do p, b, d.) So, when doing a discography, the sort order (see the second half of the mf-axlist.htm page I listed above) should mirror the score order. What is tricky is things within the section - often it is impossible to know or impractical to use the order of players on trumpet 1, trumpet 2, trumpet 3, trumpet 4. So the BRIAN program lists the players alphabetically by last name. Another area is doubling - when one person plays two different instruments. The program is set up to use the highest sorting instrument as the one it sorts by. So someone who plays flute AND tenor saxophone will sort before someone who only plays alto saxophone. A last tricky area is the idea of a violin player who isn't a member of a strings section, but is more a "horn" player. At this point, BRIAN just keeps all violins after the rhythm section. The traditional score order is at odds with a number of jazz discographies as they treat a big band as "brass and reeds" - trumpets and trombones before saxophones, then rhythm. But it's my feeling this is just because someone arbitrarily decided on it without being aware of the hundreds of years of established tradition that exist in musical scores. The score order that I use has the support of that tradition (even if there are a few things in uncharted territory, like do you sort kora before or after oud? - most times you don't need to worry about them being on the same session). Whew - well, you asked...... Mike

If you have a question, I'll be happy to give my take on it. (That take, of course, might be incomplete, false start, alternative, or master, depending.) Past the basics, there are a few formats out there that each have some benefits. The perfect one hasn't been found yet. It might never be found. But we should surely be striving to at LEAST give all the details included in Rust - and hopefully adding to the knowledge by adding personnel specifics, composers, track timings, issue titles and release dates, studios/concert halls, etc. Regarding abbreviations, you can see the list I use here: http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Artists/mf-axlist.htm I have my own rationale for those. Also for things like instrument sort order. Glad to expound if you'd like. 600 sessions is really not much in the scheme of things. I did fifteen sessions (including most of the research) in a couple hours the other night for the Bee Hive discography - mathematically, 600 would be 40 evenings work. Now, if I have all the info in front of me and it's just entry, that can zoom along. The boxed sets listed here were (all but maybe three or four) entered in the span of about a month. http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Temp/boxedsets.htm Mike

Thanks to Marty for sending me a tape of the mono version of Brubeck's Angel Eyes LP. Finally got a chance to sit down and compare the two versions of this. "Will You Still Be Mine" is the only tune that has different takes on the mono and stereo issues. And man, both are really good. Mike

Latest and greatest now up. The BH 01 track sequence is noted and entered, but won't show up until I do an issue index. Hoping that Jim Neumann will be able to assist so that true recording sequence can be shown for each session instead of issue track sequence, but it will have to do until the real thing comes along. Mike

I will want that track sequence info - if anything is wrong, just resequence: a, b, d, c, f, e. Thanks! Mike

OK - I've made all changes and will have the new version up later this afternoon. If I could get release years for all the ones that are missing, that would be super. This means everything except 7000, 7001, 7009, 7012, 7016. Just dotting the i's. Also - is studio correct for 7007? I would assume so, but..... Thanks for the great teamwork. Mike P.S. - Manhattan Project was one I already had from my Art Davis work. It's in there, complete.

Four!

Hey, this *is* the information SUPERhighway.... Beta 3 now online - this is all the sessions in at least as good as they appear in general discographies. Most are better - now, please give me timings, release years, studios, etc. for what I don't have - also corrections, personnel specifics, etc. Mike

Beta 1 here: http://www.JazzDiscography.com/Temp/beehive.htm make that Beta 2 Mike

OK - who's got the Dick Katz LP? Hit me with the info. Timings, who plays on which tracks (and does Wess only play tenor on Basie)? Did Katz write that one and No Matter What? Any clue on which tunes were recorded which days? Studio? Release year? Mike

Hard to believe after producing all that stuff that there could be any crap left in him. Then again, that was probably only the tip of the crapberg. Mike