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jasonguthartz
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Posts posted by jasonguthartz
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FYI - you can now order the box set via the Firehouse 12 Records site:
http://www.firehouse12.com/firehouse12_rec...se.asp?id=25389
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I just got this message:
Please note the following, from Howard Mandel in NYC…I've been asked by composer and pianist Andrew Hill's family to announce to the press that he died at 4 a.m. today, April 20, 2007, several years after being diagnosed with lung cancer. He was 75 years old and lived in Jersey City, NJ.
Hill, born June 30, 1931 in Chicago, Illinois (contrary to some previously published places and dates dates), had a lengthy international career as performer and recording artist, and educator (at Portland State University; he also gave master classes at New York University, and elsewhere; he leaves a voluminous and highly varied recorded legacy, dating from the 1950s (So In Love) to his 2006 trio album Time Lines (Blue Note), named to many critics' top ten lists. Hill is survived by his wife Joanne Robinson Hill, and a neice, nephew and cousin, besides a devoted coterie of friends, typically creative artists and perceptive fans.
As announced on April 11, Andrew Hill will receive an honorary doctorate of music degree from Berklee College of Music at commencement May 12
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Threads here go as they will, in a communal, self-regulating manner, with rare interventions by Jim Alfredson, the owner. You don't get to decide that a post is aberrant because it's talking about KV for a while rather than about Ornette; we all decide those things by our responses or lack of same -- and some of the most interesting and fruitful discussions here have stemmed from people taking hard left or right turns. Also, what's with that "s/he" stuff? And speaking of casting aspersions on people's motives -- a lot of people here post using names other than their own and don't chose to reveal what they're doing in life "other than posting messages on this forum." This you find novel and dubious? Seems to me you have the instincts of a cultural commissar.
I was in no way trying to silence you, Mr. Kart. I was merely pointing out that, in the context of a (side-)discussion about KV's dedications, it was revealing that half of your response was devoted to an explanation of your dislike of KV's music.
And, in a public forum such as this one, there's something to be said for staying on the topic of the thread for those who are searching for discussions on particular issues. So if you want to start a discussion about KV's music, start a new thread or reopen an old one. I probably should have done this as well in my response to "Clementine"'s sucker punch.
As for the "s/he" stuff -- I have no idea whether "Clementine" is male or female, and do not want to presume even though I have good reason to assume (s)he's a he.
I asked what (s)he does because that seems to be a preoccupation of this "Clementine", e.g., what Ornette does or doesn't do beyond the concert stage, and what (s)he presumes is my motivation for participating in this forum ("selling stuff", or rather, "SELLING stuff").
No, anonymity online is neither novel nor (necessarily) dubious. It is, however, often cowardly, especially when the anonymous take sucker punches at non-anonymous people, especially at non-anonymous people who have chosen the difficult road of beings artists who get out there and "do something". Anonymity is often an easy way of avoiding the need to make coherent arguments, a means of expressing someone's oh-so-unique individuality and oh-so-important opinion, while denying the reader the benefit of context which identity provides.
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I believe that was what inspired KV, whose curiosity was piqued by those names on Braxton's records.
In Ken's own words:
Generally speaking, the fact that the pieces are dedications is not so much that they’re tied compositionally to the artists, but that this is an acknowledgment that these people have made an impact on me.***
For me, knowledge of their work really has changed my life for the better. Sometimes it’s a musician, sometimes it’s a teacher, sometimes it’s a good friend, but these people have enabled me to do what I’m trying to do as a creative person and give me the strength in any context. Sometimes – for anybody – it’s a hard living. Period. No matter what you do. And the artists that keep us going, I think, sometimes get overlooked. They’re not acknowledged, and they should be. So it’s an attempt to do that, in a small way.
Also, I’ve had some people get in touch with me and say “I didn’t know who so-and-so was”, and I want to check out his stuff after you dedicated a piece to him. And that’s amazing to me. So that’s part of it too. I’m totally fascinated by what musicians and artists do and study, and what they’re influenced by. And that’s actually how I discovered Warne Marsh, was through Braxton. I kept hearing him talk about this guy Warne Marsh, and I was like, who’s Warne Marsh? I had never heard of him. Then through Warne Marsh, I ended up getting to hear Tristano’s work.
BC: So it’s a thread…
KV: Right, it’s an extremely fluid process, and it ties together all of these artists in a cross-pollinating way. So doing the dedication thing is an attempt to say, “These are the things that are affecting me. Check them out if you want.” And that’s kind of what I’ve been doing…I listen to artists I look up to and listen to what they’re influenced by. And then they impact me. So it’s this really great, wonderful way to take this creative energy and passing it on to other people, hopefully…
Yikes - this guy sounds really disingenous and evil.
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I myself have seldom found any KV recording or live performance I've heard to be as satisfying as any number of performances and recordings I've heard by some or all of KV's associates, minus KV.
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...I long ago reached the point where his presence on a recording or on a bandstand was, from a purely aesthetic angle, a reason to say "see you later."
OK, fine - you don't like the guy's music. But that's not the issue. (KV wasn't even the topic, but this "Clementine" person threw a sucker punch.)
Surely you're aware of Anthony Braxton's practice of dedicating his compositions. I believe that was what inspired KV, whose curiosity was piqued by those names on Braxton's records. Do you have a problem with Braxton on this issue as well? Or is it just that you like AB's music better? (Or is it an aesthetic thing -- you'd prefer less text on the CD tray card or booklet.)As for KV's admiration of other musicians and the sincerity thereof, I can't speak directly to the latter point, but I can think of no other musician who has dedicated so many albums and compositions to other figures....***
Now perhaps I'm wrong here; perhaps I'm not but it's all rather harmless or beside the point. But that's how it seems to me.
I suspect your extreme dislike of KV's music is leading you to over-analyze this whole dedication thing. OK, if that's what you want to spend time thinking and writing about. But it is not "rather harmless" to engage in unfounded speculation about KV's sincerity or integrity -- it smacks of "I don't know that he beats his wife..." And given your background in journalism, Larry, I would expect you to be aware of that.
(As for "Clementine": well, I don't even know who (s)he is, or what (s)he's "doing" other than posting anonymous messages to this forum. (S)he expects me to examine the archives on the topic of KV's dedications, yet (s)he can't be bothered to check some basic facts with regard to my own history in this forum. In any case, maybe (s)he'll post a copy of the Vandermark Directive, which seems to cast a hypnotic spell on those exposed to it.)
Back to Ornette...
Ornette, God love him, hasn't shown much of a collaborative/freelance streak in his career, has he? ... There's never been a track record of the kind of thing you say he's not doing now.
True -- he ain't Peter Kowald.
But consider this comment by Ornette in the Apr/May '07 issue of Wax Poetics: "I never hire any specific combination of instruments to play with me. When someone wants to study with me and asks to play with me, I always let them." So I guess either few people are asking to play with Ornette, or they're just not playing together in public.
btw, I love this: "The only reason you need a key is to lock your house when you go out."
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re: Vandermark-- look at it this way Guthartz-- why don't Flattop just put out the goddamn record & ...
let us figure out who it mighta been influenced by?? esp. when you're calling out three fairly huge guys like that, _____ please.
Well, if he went that way, I'm sure there'd be folks saying "KV is just stealing ideas from X, Y & Z, and presenting them as his own without giving anyone any credit."
The record is out. I have confidence in your ability to listen to the music and figure out the influences for yourself, or not. Who is demanding you care about anything other than the music?
If you don't like the music, fine -- stop at "beyond asinine". But to assault his integrity by saying he's "attempting to bask in other's glories" is totally unfair and uncalled for.
We all know how omniscient you are, Don C., but I guarantee there are lots of folks who will come across Powerhouse Sound who never heard of Perry, Dodd, et al, do a little digging, and be hipped on to some hip shit as a result. So while it obviously annoys you for some reason, in reality it's all good.
ps - please tell us (1) the names of the musicians from whom Ken may borrow, (2) the concepts and traditions you would permit Ken to draw upon, and (3) how much Ken is allowed to talk about (1) and (2).
anyway, this is Ornette's thread...
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Who says an artist has to perform in public?
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it..."
The Beatles stopped playing in public. Glenn Gould stopped playing in public. And for heavens sake; Ornette is 77 years old. Hasn't he earned the right to work as little as he choses and can afford? As for saying that he should play for free-He's not a volunteer musician. He's a professional and professionals get paid. How many workers do their jobs for free?
Ornette certainly has "the right to work as little as he choses [sic] and can afford" -- as does everyone else on the planet, regardless of age. Putting on a free concert does not necessarily mean he would not be paid, e.g., a public arts program could pay his fee. (And, btw, lots of people do lots of work for free, which isn't to say Ornette should do anything for free; also, "he's a professional and professionals get paid" is tautological.)
"Art" is neither an object nor a material, but a process set in motion by objects and materials. And that can't happen when those objects and materials -- the works of an artist -- are stored in a closet, unavailable for engagement by a public audience of one sort or another. The artform of jazz, IMO, begs for a less 'precious' approach to public engagement, since recordings are poor substitutes for the live experience.
The interesting question is how much of the difference between 1959 Ornette and 2007 Ornette -- six weeks at the Five Spot vs. infrequent concert hall or festival gigs -- reflects a change in economic/financial factors (self-imposed demands/restrictions being one factor among others), and how much reflects a change in his attitude towards his art. Though I suspect the 77-year-old factor trumps either question.
I don't mean any of this to suggest that Ornette is anything less than a great artist -- I'm just responding to WD45's general question on the issue of public performance.
And in the end, he's only playing the best places for the most attentive audiences (people seem to pay a lot more attention when they pay top dollar.
Well, I've seen Ornette twice: in Battery Park in NY, and at Symphony Center here in Chicago. Yeah, I was knocked out by both shows, but I can only imagine how much better each would have been at a smaller venue with decent acoustics. (And as for paying attention & paying top-dollar: a lot of folks walked out of that Symphony Center concert.)
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(& that latest Lee Perry/Public Enemy/James Brown thing is a beyond asinine attempt to bask in other's glories)
Please elaborate.
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Who says an artist has to perform in public?
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it..."
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[i'd encourage not only those whose orders have been cancelled, but everyone else who knows about this, to call or email Best Buy and express their opinion 'cause There's A Riot Goin' On!
Their corporate office # is (612) 291-1000
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Back to the Iridium box. Is this in stores yet? What's the probable retail cost?
It is now available directly from Firehouse 12 Records, and from online retailers like amazon.com, jazzloft.com, and downtownmusicgallery.com.
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If they don't care about pissing off a lot of customers, they'll rely on the legal fine-print of their "Conditions of Use":I got the same notice. They're bailing on the deal.
Order Acceptance/ConfirmationYour receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation of our offer to sell. The Best Buy Web site reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason.
***
Order Limitations
We reserve the right to reject any order you place with us, and/or or to limit quantities on any order, without giving any reason. If we reject your order, we will generally attempt to notify you using the e-mail address you gave us when you placed the order.
Order Limitations/Limited Quantities
Best Buy may, at its own discretion, limit or cancel quantities purchased per person, per household or per order. Best Buy also reserves the right to reject any order you place with us. These restrictions may include orders placed by the same Best Buy Web site account, the same credit card, and orders that use the same billing and/or shipping address. In the event we make a change to an order, we will attempt to notify you by contacting the e-mail and/or billing address provided at the time the order was made. Best Buy reserves the right to limit or prohibit sales to dealers.
Canceling these orders is bad business, esp. for a big retailer like Best Buy for whom the lost profits on this presumed pricing error are inconsequential.
I'd encourage not only those whose orders have been cancelled, but everyone else who knows about this, to call or email Best Buy and express their opinion 'cause There's A Riot Goin' On!
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Anyone up for a trip to London in July?
I'm gonna wait for Bologna in October.
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JAMES BROWN! THE GODFATHER OF SOUL!
Grits & soul
Today and yesterday
"Shhhhhhh.... (For a Little While)" (available here)
Game over.
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The Rastacan website really doesn't offer that much information.
A year ago, posting to the Braxton Yahoo group, Gino Robair explained:
It'll be a regular DVD, compatible with all DVD players. There will not beany video on it: it will be all music. (Okay, there might be a tiny bit of
video material from the studio...depending on disc space.)
For you tech-minded folks, this won't be a DVD-A, but rather, a DVD-V (the
same spec used for movie releases). The resolution is 24-bit, 48 kHz.
The reason we are doing this as a DVD is to avoid releasing a 7-CD box set
(too expensive to make and ship), and to avoid cutting the 90-minute pieces
in half. Although we don't have the final price set, it certainly isn't
going to be anywhere near the cost of a 7-CD box set.
and:
Let me clarify: at this point, the DVD will likely have only music on it, toavoid possible incompatibilities with older DVD players.
However, I'm arranging with Tim Perkis to put some choice bits online of the
video content he has: there are some fine moments where Anthony explains the
strategies to the ensemble during the sound check. As far as I know, there
is very little on videotape or film of him talking about the nuts and bolts
of his musical structures, so it's a real treat.
FWIW, the video footage was shot as a part of Perkis's documentary Noisy
People: www.noisypeople.com
But I'm not sure if any of the Nine Compositions session will be in the
film, although he shot roughly an hour of footage of the sound check.
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Wonderful stuff badly played.
Hmm... don't know what you're referring to specifically.
But this 12+1tet music is indeed "bad"
Why do you ignore the rest of my message?: "God save us from perfect performances (they will arrive for your children). "
I love this shit.
You are "too sensitive X 2".
Chuck -
I know you're generally on-board the Braxton Express. But the difficulty in conveying facetiousness online made it easy to mistake your 2nd sentence ("God save us...") as being facetious rather than the first. Sorry.
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I didn't mean at all by "shrug, wink, and the like" that the these players looked like they were "having fun" (though that's certainly possible). Rather, they looked to me like they were unsure of themselves at times, glancing around for cues, etc. -- though this may be a function of what Braxton wants or doesn't want them to do in this music. Obviously, I could be wrong about how I interpreted what I saw, but I have been watching people play music -- some of it quite "advanced" -- for more than 50 years now, and I'd be surprised if these players had come with a new way to "look" while playing as well as a new way to sound.
OK, sorry for misreading your comment.
But YES! "glancing around for cues, etc." -- this is exactly what occurs during these performances. In fact, it was my experience watching this ensemble perform at Wesleyan in fall 2005, that led me to decide to videotape these shows. There is a lot to see during the performance which helps you understand how the music is put together, e.g.: Each musician has a stack of Braxton compositions to draw from, which can be cued at any time by anyone via hand signals (Braxton has several sheets worth), white boards, and other gestures; language music improvisations are conducted via physical gestures; and musicians use signals to select other musicians with whom they want to play.
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But by and large they look like rather young people and sound and look like they're not that familiar with the music they're trying to play. Is that is so tricky to understand? Or do you think that they're on top of this music as much as Braxton himself is?
These musicians are extremely familiar with Braxton's music. About two-thirds of them have studied with Braxton, and a quarter of them (Fei, Lehman, Bynum) have been studying with and/or performing with Braxton for over a decade. Nicole Mitchell was the only real newcomer, and you will not be surprised to hear that Braxton said she was playing "as if she'd been with them for 10 years."And yet did you hear that 16-piece work "Never Enough Hope" that Toby Summerfield recorded in Chicago in Jan. 2005? ... I submit that this was in large part because those 16 players, though young (names upon request, but you probably know who they are), knew what they were doing.
“Being on top of this music as much as Braxton himself”? That’s a tricky issue given the tri-centric, multi-hierarchical methodology I mentioned above. (For more insight into the tri-centric approach, check out the liner notes to 4 Compositions (Ulrichsberg) 2005.) Plus, Braxton himself claims to understand only 40% of what he's doing!
But in all seriousness, these musicians in the 12+1tet knew what they were doing. And they did it incredibly well.
(Unfortunately, I missed that Never Enough Hope project.)
Are having fun and “really playing” mutually exclusive?BTW, I certainly don't have anything against young musicians. It's just that I get spoiled listening to young musicians who can really play, and the ones who can usually don't shrug, wink, and the like while doing so.Others have commented on the level of musicianship in the 12+1tet:
Pat Frisco:
http://taylorhobynum.com/applications/word...=34#comment-927
Steve Smith:
http://nightafternight.blogs.com/night_aft...an_from_ut.html
http://nightafternight.blogs.com/night_aft...t_stand_a_.html
http://nightafternight.blogs.com/night_aft...haunting_r.html
and a certain trumpet player you may be familiar with:
http://www.greenleafmusic.com/#/blog/200611102640.php
In any case, this is all premature since you presumably haven’t heard the recordings.
I look forward to your thoughts after you hear them.
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are there any smaller combinations within this set, or does every performance feature the 12+1-tet?
As I mention above, "Besides the option of playing the main composition, the musicians (individually or in sub-groups) have the freedom/responsibility of choosing to perform any (part of any) other Braxton composition, to conduct language music improvisations, to improvise freely, or to not play at all (this last option provides some fascinating moments, which I hope the DVD helps illustrate). Multiply these options by 13 musicians and you can imagine how differently each set sounded."
So while the entire 12+1tet was on stage for all nine sets, not everyone played at all times -- you get everything from the full ensemble to a single musician playing at any given moment within a set.
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I applaud the enterprise. I also wonder whether 9 CDs of this will stand up. ... My point is that large sets of live material *used* to be issued to cater to the fans who already loved the individual issues. I just wonder exactly who such a set will reach and why - whether a single CD of the best segment or segments of the concerts would have done better commercially and in terms of getting the music known - or whether the implicit message is that it is the whole project that counts, not really any particular outstanding part of the result, in which case perhaps the DVD is all anyone actually needs?
some comments:
1. Each set is an continuous, hour-long (give or take) performance, an entity unto itself. Same as Bill Dixon's "Shrike" (< 1 min), or Morton Feldman's "String Quartet No. 2" (> 6 hrs).
2. Not only does each set feature a different composition -- the final batch of Ghost Trance Music compositions, Comp. 350-358 -- but the tri-centric approach to the material results in a wide variety of paths taken by the musicians as they navigate through each set. Besides the option of playing the main composition, the musicians (individually or in sub-groups) have the freedom/responsibility of choosing to perform any (part of any) other Braxton composition, to conduct language music improvisations, to improvise freely, or to not play at all (this last option provides some fascinating moments, which I hope the DVD helps illustrate). Multiply these options by 13 musicians and you can imagine how differently each set sounded. So, to my mind, just as Braxton's tri-centric approach rejects the notion of a "definitive" performance of these compositions, it is nearly impossible to identify one or two "definitive" sets from these performances. Each individual will have his/her preferences for particular sets, and while I expect others will share my experience of having their "favorites" change with each listen, perhaps a critical consensus will develop to help guide your purchasing decision. Which brings me to...
3. Individual sets will be available for purchase via download, so those with a more casual interest in Braxton's work, or with a more restricted budget, will have access to this music.
4. The DVD is intended to be an audio-visual supplement to the CDs and liner notes. It was not designed to be seen outside of that context, nor as a "best of" compilation of clips. It will hopefully provide information which can be useful to the "friendly experiencer" while listening to this music, to enhance the listener's understanding of what is happening, how it is happening, and why it is happening (not that there is a single, definitive answer to any of these issues).
-Jason
ps: Larry - I'm working on a response...
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What Chuck said -- those kids sound and look like they're at sea.
Again, I have to ask: what are you referring to specifically?
And who are you calling "kids"? Nicole Mitchell? Jay Rozen?
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Perhaps this is too much to ask for, but will there be any way to purchase the DVD without the CDs? 9 CDs is just way too much for me. Also, will there be any way to purchase certain performances?
Individual sets will be available for purchase via mp3 downloads; per the Firehouse 12 website:
All these titles will be available for order directly on the Firehouse 12 website, either as physical discs or as downloads. We will also make downloads available through all the other major on-line providers, and distribute the physical products through a handful of select stores and Amazon.com.The DVD will not be sold separately - at least not right now - who knows what may develop...
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Wonderful stuff badly played.
Hmm... don't know what you're referring to specifically.
But this 12+1tet music is indeed "bad"
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I understand he will be at Downtown Music Gallery signing copies of this box...
On Wednesday, March 28th from 5:00 to 6:30 p.m., legendarymusician/composer Anthony Braxton will autograph copies of his
forthcoming box set, 9 Compositions (Iridium) 2006 (Firehouse 12
Records), at a special free signing event at New York's Downtown Music
Gallery. This will also be the first chance for fans to purchase this
set, which officially hits the streets on April 3rd. Braxton is in New
York to perform with his 7tet at the Iridium Jazz Club March 29th-April
1st.
The Firehouse 12 website will soon start taking orders.
*** Bjork Corner ***
in Artists
Posted
This may disappoint you (in several ways):