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Gheorghe
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Posts posted by Gheorghe
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Such a great bass player! I think he was an ideal choice for Ornette Coleman. They really played some great stuff together, and like Charlie Haden he really had the knowledge and that telepathic sense to play Ornette´s music, maybe even more than Charlie Haden, or how do you think about it?
I´m really impressed by the way he quickly changes from pizzicato to arco-passages and his arco playing (bowing) shows an immense knowledge of the instrument. I think he was a very technical bass player also.
I don´t know very much about his whereabouts after his tenure with Ornette Coleman, only that he played at Coltrane´s funeral and with a string of new thing players like Shepp, Sam Rivers, but very little else. It´s reported he was much more into teaching during his later years, but died very early, suffering a heart attack while running after a guy who had tried to steal his car, or something like that.
I think, during his short playing career he had found something like the secret key to really play Ornette´s music as spontanously as it´s supposed to be, he´s also particularly great on those tunes where Ornette is playing the fiddle, which some people hate but makes sense to me, especially when both Ornette and David are on it....
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I don´t know that special recording, but it´s very possible it was "Move", since Hamp during the late forties , like other masters of the swing era tried out some bop players also. Fats Navarro played with Hamp, Mingus contributed his "Mingus Fingers", so it might be natural, that the band also included some of that stuff. Anyway, Hamp himself was great in quoting other tunes during his solos....
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Well, now I must think what might be the point: If I´d like to sit in as a player, or just be there, listening.
As part of the audience, I would have liked to be in, when Bird, Fats, and Bud, with Curley Russell and Art Blakey played at Birdland in 1950. Or the Tadd Dameron group at Royal Roost.
About playing myself: I once saw Jackie McLean, Bobby Hutcherson, Herbie Lewis and Billy Higgins together on stage. A pianoless group, the greatest I ever saw. A good piano was also on stage. Though I must say they played so much music, wasn´t need of a piano, but nevertheless if I´ve had a wish free, I would have liked to be part of it on piano. The tunes fitted to those I know (Blue´n Boogie, Star Eyes, What´s New, Salt Peanuts) and it would have been a gas to do my Bud thing on Salt Peanuts....
But it´s good that such things don´t happen. I have to much respect for the music to sit in, even if I could maybe, but musicians is one thing and music lovers is another thing....
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oh yes! Finally I got it....
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The personal photo is not your avatar.
dB
Oh thank you for that information! Then, please what can I do to have it as my avatar also?
best wishes. Gheo
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Hi!
I´d also like to ask you something: I got my avatar recently, it´s on my profile, but why can´t I see it (like on other users) when writing a topic or an answer on the forum?
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Anyway it is more something like a collection from various dates. I would have preferred a whole session with both of them involved. Of course we have "Homecoming" from 1976", but for some reasons I´m not so fond of that album.
Later, both Dexter and Woddy where under contract by Elektra Musician. that´s where Dexter made his last studio recording in 1982. I remember in spring 1983 a new album of Dexter with Woddy Shaw was announced, but for some reasons it never happened. During the same time (1983), Dexter, Woody Shaw and Johnny Griffin played on a concert in Vienna, each with his own group. It was announced that at the end they will perform together, but for reasons I don´t know it didn´t happen. Johnny was first, then Woody with his group with (Mulgrew Miller, Steve Turré ) followed, and then Dexter. After Dexter´s set, it was over...., the Elektra Musician album that was scheduled for spring 1983 didn´t happen and if I remember right, even the label disappeard..
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I´ll miss him very much.
His music meant so much to me. One of the very greatest trumpet players ever. I was aware his active period has been over for quite some time, but still I was happy he´s alive. Earlier that year Johnny Griffin, now Freddie Hubbard, last year Jackie McLean. So many greats that left us...
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Hi Leafgreen, welcome here!
About the Black Lion label......, well I doubt there´s a complete list. Much of the stuff was periodically re-issued in Japan, since the japanese are huge collectors of everything that´s historic and got that be-bop sound.
I remember when I was young, I really tried hard to purchase a lot of LPs from that label, since the artists (Bud, Dexter, Don Byas etc.) appealed to me and still do. Even then it was very very hard to find albums, even if they where in a cataloge, record dealers over here in Europe told me they are out of print.
Eventually I got Bud Powell´s "The Invisible Cage", "Strictly Confidential" and "Hot House (with Johnny Griffin). Also "Hawk in Germany (actually Bud Powell trio with Hawk added on the second half of the album, sometimes the album is called "Essen Festival All Stars").
I also liked very much Dexter´s album from 1967 from the Montmatre, with Kenny Drew on it (especially the fast version of "Like Someone in Love"), or Don Byas´ "Anthropology", with Byas playing bop-standards.
I also had the Monk sessions from London 1971.
Yes, this was really beautiful stuff, mostly Americans in Europe, quite the stuff I used to hear live when that music still was happening, and Europe was a good place of african-american artists to work or even to live....
I also would like to re-buy all that stuff on CD
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Really one of the great trumpet players. I love everything he did, from the great 1946 sides with Fats, Sonny, Bud, Klook, his tenure with Mr. B., his playing with Bird, with Monk in 1952 and above all, when he together with Hank Mobley formed the front line of the Messengers.
I really love his BN albums "Afro Cuban", "Round Midnight at the Bohemia", "Una Mas" etc. and his many sessions with Joe Henderson. It´s too bad he stopped recording after 1964.
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Bud Powell´s "A Portrait Of Thelonious", from late 1961, recorded in Paris has applause on it, but actually is a studio-recording.
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I'm glad to hear that someone else hears merit in some of Bud's very last recordings. The version of "Like Someone In Love" on "Ups 'n Downs" has lots of flubs, especially in the left hand, and is nowhere as strong as the version made for the Dexter Gordon "Our Man In Paris" session. Bud enjoyed playing this as a mini-concerto in his Paris years. I dig the stride section, and feel this is much better than his first attempts at this tune, from December 1954, where he got lost.
Yes, Bud liked that tune and played it very often in Europe, many recorded versions like those from Sweden, Denmark, France. Besides the mentioned 1963 version from the Dexter Gordon date he also recorded it in the studio in 1964 (Blues for Bouffemont is the title of the album, other issues "The Invisible Cage"). During his extended Birdland engagement he played it in the same manner, I especially love the version from "Award At Birdland"....
Sometimes I play the tune myself. My wife likes it, the way the tune sounds and I play it just for us two....
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Thanks, everyone for all the opinions and sleuthing! This has been a great and informative thread.
Tonight I discovered another tidbit about "Ups 'n Downs". Mainstream gave the title of one track as "I Can't Believe That I'm In Love With You", which Bud fans recognize as his"Buttercup". (Most will agree with me that this 1966 version is much better than Bud's 1st recording of this tune in June of 1954 for Norman Granz).
"Buttercup" is simply Bud's version of an old song by Jimmy McHugh & Clarence McGaskill with the title that appears on the Mainstream LP. The chord changes are the same, and the melody is very similar to the version of "I Can't Believe That I'm In Love With You" as recorded by Coleman Hawkins on June 30, 1931, with Eddie Condon, Muggsy Spanier, & Jimmy Dorsey onboard.
The same tune also shows up on the "Bird" soundtrack with a Charlie Parker solo over a modern rhythm section.
I also was quite astonished when I first heard that album and after the first bar recognized "I Can´t Believe...." as Bud´s composition "Buttercup". Here it has a fine stride-section. Of course I know Bud´s 1st recording of the tune (on Bud Powell Moods from 1954). Later, during his Europe-stay, Bud played the tune very often. A very fine version is on the Xanadu album "Bud in Paris".
What do you think about the version of "Like Someone in Love" from "Ups ´n Downs". The intro is just like all versions of Bud playing that tune, but the stride is quite strange. Usually Bud played that tune with some really strong block-chords.
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welcome!!!!
thank you!
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I dig Horace Silver, and above all Monk (my wife says: He´s the greatest, because he plays like if he had invented that instrument for his own purpose).
Your wife must have terrific jazz ears to come out with that. Great insight :-)
She´s not really a jazz lover but I´m often quite astonished how much she know´s what´s going on (tunes etc.). If I tell her she says "it´s just because I hear your stuff so much". Well but Monk, that´s something else. She seems to like him more than others.
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He has a sound unlike any other, dark and percussive (not unlike Monk, interstingly).
Young Bud was a disciple of Monk's.
Bud´s Monk-influence became even more profund during later years. He version of "Epistrophy" from 1955 is described as being just "a bit too monkish" even for Bud. Towards the end of his career he played very much Monk tunes and at least two albums a dedicated to Monk ("A Portrait of Thelonious from 1961", and "Tribute to Thelonious" from 1964.
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not to take this of-topic but how did our topic starter get to ne member #11407?!!!
did we have a successful membership drive recently? is this an ACORN thing?
I really don´t know. And I must say sincerly I hadn´t noticed it. But a good occasion to present myself, since I didn´t find a thread where I could have done it: born in 1959, male, married, jazz-fan since I was a teenager, musical tastes: spreading from be-bop (maybe my main interest), hardbop, earlier avantgarde (Ornette Coleman etc.) , and maybe some of the 70´s stuff, but not necessarly.
I found this board while trying to find some sources that share my impressions about Bud Powells very last album. That´s when I saw ccex´s thread on "Up´n Downs" and thought that might be a good place to stay. Since I am on the board I found many other topics that are interesting to me, like about Mingus, Miles, the one about the "Golden Eight" (Kenny Clarke) etc.
In my live, I saw quite a few musicians on stage: Dizzy, Dexter, Sonny Stitt, Art Blakey, Max Roach, Mingus, Miles, Sonny Rollins, Wayne Shorter, that´s only a handful of great musicians I saw live...
And I can play piano by ears. Since my greatest musical inspiration (on piano) was and still is Bud Powell, it´s natural if I play tunes and improvise on them it "sounds like Bud" (says my wife). I couldn´t read a note as big as a house, but can pick up quickly tunes even if they more complicated like "Conception" or fast bebop stuff like "Salt Peanuts" "John´s Abbey" etc....Also like to play ballads and getting a feeling from it that I got to know and to love from later Bud Powell interpretations. My most loyal listener is my wife!
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Not to take this off topic, but I'd like to share my personal experience with Bud Powell, for what it's worth.
When I was in high school, I was OBSESSED with Bud Powell and bought - on my busboy's salary - nearly everything that was in print at the time. These include Amazing Vol. 1 and 2 on Blue Note; Lots of albums on Verve; the double album from the live Toronto gig; and various Savoy sides on which he was a sideman. (The Roost/Roulette session has eluded me until this day; is it available?).
At that time, roughly between the ages of 16 and 19, I was really into the earlier, frenetic, pre-1953 stuff (or whatever the cutoff point is where his technique started to fail). Having a relatively limited knowledge of both jazz and the "Great American Songbook" at the time, the later stuff was for the most part lost on me. But I listened to the earlier stuff non-stop.
Hello!
Don´t worry, I really liked your input, since I also had intended to write a few lines about how it came I´m the Bud Powell fan I´ve been for more than 3 decades:
After I first got in touch with jazz, some people let me listen to some Oscar Peterson LPs since they knew I can play piano from ears. I dug it, especially the feeling from the strong bass lines of Ray Brown. After having the chance to listen to a Miles Davis quintet track I knew there´s much more to music than Oscar Peterson. Trying to go back to the roots of Miles, I purchased some Charlie Parker, and after listening to the "One Night in Birdland" with Bud playing those exiting solos on it, I was lost forever. Bud was my thing. It was the first music I heard in my ears when I waked up and the last thing I had in my ears when I went to sleep. Well you know I was still almost a kid, I thought it´s not hip having Oscar Peterson albums at home. I sold them for almost nothing, spent all my money to get Bud (and of course all other interprets from his time: Fats, Diz, Tadd, Monk, Dexter Gordon, J.J. Johnson).
Of course I listened intensly to his later (so called sustained) achievments. Though my first musical love was that early Bud from 1946-1953, I really dug into his later stuff and almost got annoyed on people who wrote or said he made "mistakes". Mistakes? That sounded and still sounds so old-fashioned to me. Where we are at? Gettin´piano lessons from some old lady? Bud c a n afford making mistakes because even if he could have used only two fingers of his hand, he still was the greatest thing that ever happened to those 88 keys, that´s my opinion.
I also had periods when I listend to other music, but then I concentrated on other sounds: Mingus, Ornette Coleman trio, and even Miles´electric stuff from the 70´s (just to feel "modern", but I can like some of it).
I also love other piano players, especially if they don´t imitate Bud and don´t play the piano how old piano teacher ladies are supposed telling you how it might be played. I dig Horace Silver, and above all Monk (my wife says: He´s the greatest, because he plays like if he had invented that instrument for his own purpose). And Tadd Dameron: He´s not supposed to be a piano-player but I have times I can´t hear enough from his strange chord based interludes.
Well, that was off topic, but your answer about how you started to listen to Bud inspired me...
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A good example to hear Diz, Fats and Miles together is "Overtime" and "Victory Ball" from the Metronome-Allstars 1949. I couldn´t find another example, but Fats is sitting in on 4 tunes of a Miles Davis set from 1950 (supposed to be from the same night as the Charlie Parker Allstars with Bird, Fats, Bud...).
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Here's my observation and some thoughts:
7. 'Round Midnight
Solo piano. Bud plays pretty well. At the end it has a big applause in a big venue such as Carnegie Hall or Town Hall, but for me it sounds like a fake. I'm not sure this one is really from live recording.
I seriously disagree. I think Bud's playing is poor ranging to awful - it sounds positively tortured in places. It supports the decision ESP made to not release the tapes.
Well I couldn´t say the playing is "poor", listen to the great "new" voicings, especially on the bridge. The only flaws ar one or two misfingerings and that he plays it quite "out of time", more into a "rubato-style" or how you call it.
A very interesting inside-review about Bud´s very last performances comes from Ira Gitler´s book "Jazz masters of the 40´s " where he describes Bud´s set of music on a concert bill with New Thing artists like Albert Ayler and Milford Graves: Bud´s last piece, a ballad is described as being extremly moving and what seemed to be faltering time on faster pieces had become a "nearly Monkish deliberateness" ......... and though far from his peak, Bud hadn´t lost his marvelous touch....."
I think, the same words could be said about that "Round Midnite" on "Ups ´n Downs".....
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What´s the mistery about "My Favourite Quintet"? (1965, live at the Guthrie Theatre, Minneapolis)? I see it in all the discographies and it was advertised on the back cover of all those Mingus records released on the french "America" label during the 70´s (then a source for us poor Europeans to purchase Mingus´stuff....) , only I never could put my hands on it.
As much as I know, it was never re-issued as a CD.
It would be worth listening, since it has, besides just another version of "So Long Eric" a ballad medley, in the way the Ellington-Medley on "Monterey", as I suppose.....
Rumours were, that Mrs. Sue Mingus would release it.
We have tons of partially bootleg material from the 1964 tour , at least this recording would be interesting.
I also miss a good live recording of the band that I was lucky to see live (Walrath, Ricky Ford, Bob Neloms). The only source I have is a hideous bootleg-sampler with live material from the 70s (Stormy and Funky Blues), which I bought during the short time it was out , only because it contains a live version of "Cumbia and Jazz Fusion"......
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Yes Bud is The man, but his playing could be very erratic, I have many of his records, I have heard him live many times, he had a two month gig in 1962 at "Jazzhus Montmartre" here in Copenhagen, I was there 3-4 times a week, on most nights nothing "happened", but then on some nights (too few) I have never heard anything like it, was Bud at his best, a true genius.
Vic
I think it was very hard for Bud to find inspirations during his later years. All that music was in his head, but not always the vibrations were right. Especially the tracks from Sweden from the same period: I have the 5 albums from Golden Circle and the limited edition of further material ("Budism", 3 CDs) . Much of it is just tedious, too long versions of simple 12 Bar tunes like "Blues in the Closet" played over and over.
The best material is on the studio album recorded in Copenhagen, that´s really great Bud Powell.
I also have from Copenhagen some tracks where the usual trio has to guests added: Don Byas and Brew Moore. Bud sounds very inspired on that. He should have done more like that, not only trio-settings, but encounters with hornplayers. Playing trio all the time, each week in another town with another rhythm-section becomes boring. And if it was like Bud´s situation, when he didn´t see a penny from his work, it´s just disastrous for a man and a musician.
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My best example might be Mingus at the Bohemia.
Jump Monk
Serenade In Blue
Percussion Discussion
Work Song
Septemberly
All The Things You C Sharp minor
George Barrow — tenor sax
Eddie Bert — trombone
Mal Waldron — piano
Charles Mingus — bass
Willie Jones — drums
Max Roach — drums
I also like the second album from the same date: "Charles Mingus Quintet plus Max Roach".
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Yesterday I listened again to that album. Just beautiful, I love it.
David Izenzon
in Artists
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hi Niko!
Sounds good to me from the personnel, like a dream combination. Further information about the music, please?
Gheo