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Thanks for the heads up - it'll be in my Christmas stocking for sure. just received today Document's Bryant's Jubilee Quartet, Biddeville Quintette and Dunham Jazz & Jubilee so I'm revved up for this one

It appears on the Dust To Digital box set - 'How Low Can You Go? - Anthology of the String Bass' Recorded pseudonymously as by 'Joe Turner And His Memphis Men' (contractual shenanigans) "WC Handy's blues immortalized the semi-mythic Joe Turner, who reputedly transported convicts to the Nashville penitentiary in the 1890s. Here his ghost returns to conduct the Ellington orchestra" (notes to the box set) Allen Lowe's set (vol 2) has an Eddie Lang version from 1929 which I like, sort of a raggedy rhythm - finger-snappin' good!

Is this going to stand unpunished?

Mine will have to be the latter! I love this - though I only have one version from 1926... It sounds to me like something that could only have been created during prohibition - with everybody dipping their toe in the forbidden, the constant exchange between major and minor. Like a chic party is going on upstairs, but all the patrons know who's supplying the liquor. I think there's a certain comic weirdness in it too, that Cab Calloway took to extremes - and like those early cartoons (Bimbo and Betty Boop and so on), fun but menacing like a pursuit of some sort (maybe a bear and a duck taking a stroll ). I reckon it's that floating 'ghosty' tuba sound against the muted trumpet - he certainly had those timbral colours going on anyway. Is this kind of Tiny Parham-ish? - this minor key, prowling feel. there must be loads more similar things I need to find...

That would be pretty useful! It seems that it's well known that Ellington was a synesthete, but I'll post this anyway: Duke Ellington (1899-1974), composer and pianist. Class of synesthesia: Timbre → color. "I hear a note by one of the fellows in the band and it’s one color. I hear the same note played by someone else and it’s a different color. When I hear sustained musical tones, I see just about the same colors that you do, but I see them in textures. If Harry Carney is playing, D is dark blue burlap. If Johnny Hodges is playing, G becomes light blue satin." – Ellington, as quoted in Don George, p. 226. According to another pianist on a piano forum with the same thing, this Timbre → color function is perhaps not very useful: Although, as a synesthete myself, I have to point out that not all of us associate key->colour. Some people have note-> colour (eg C# is always yellow), and then there are people like me who have timbre->colour (eg violins sound green). Mine is obviously less useful than the other two, but still an interesting experience But more useful for a bandleader presumably

Not very scary sounding, but scarily titled - and HAUNTINGLY beautiful tunes... Nightmare - Alphonso Trent Phantomesque - Coleman Hawkins Creepy Feeling - Jelly Roll Morton And 'scary' sounding not scarily titled Jungle Crawl - Tiny Parham East St. Louis Toodle-oo - Duke Ellington

Reading one or two things about synesthesia (the condition, not the band..) in connection with artistic endeavours - Kandinsky for example.. Duke Ellington is cited as a famous musician who 'used synesthesia' in his works. Does this mean he actually had a neurological condition?, or that he simply attempted some kind of musical impression of colours? His music certainly conjures up 'images' in quite a vivid way - (eg Air Conditioned Jungle and others that I can't remember the names of - but you can almost see the skyscrapers, busy streets in some of it) - but this is a different matter I suppose.

That reminds me... The Rap Guide to Evolution - Darwinian Hip Hop The lights go down. The room fills with music — a pulsating hip-hop rhythm. And then, over the music, you hear the voice of Richard Dawkins reading a passage from “On the Origin of Species” by Charles Darwin: “Whoever is led to believe that species are mutable will do good service by conscientiously expressing his conviction. For only thus can the load of prejudice by which this subject is overwhelmed be removed.” So begins one of the most astonishing, and brilliant, lectures on evolution I’ve ever seen: “The Rap Guide to Evolution,” by Baba Brinkman.

Anyway, what's wrong with a "bunch of interior designers analyzing contemporary architecture"? - what about Le Corbusier, Theo Van Doesburg, Marcel Breuer, or any of that stuff that went on at the Bauhaus? Where does one thing stop and another start... What's wrong about discussing the creative process, as it applies to any genre - nobody's claiming to be an expert. Wouldn't it be interesting to see what a Hip Hop forum would have to say about jazz - as long as the question was considered carefully, like some people here are doing? Marcel Breuer Le Corbusier (But... if there are some incorrect statements of 'fact' here you should point them out)

Definitely - and also originally a manipulation of the current (early seventies) trend for providing music for dancing at discos and parties - re-introducing some element of 'live' creativity to the DJ... just as with the Jamaican sound systems, which had earlier replaced live bands because they were much cheaper, as were the 'versions' or mixes on the records of already existing rhythm tracks. It was the proletariat taking control of the means of re-production. ho ho

This short essay (by an 'insider') talks about the underground v commercial Hip Hop - also indicating the scope of the genre beyond just rap (and also mentions the devaluing of rap itself in favour of R&B singers)... b-boys.com Since the early to mid 90’s, hip-hop has undergone changes that purists would consider degenerating to its culture. At the root of these changes is what has been called “commercial hip-hop". Commercial hip-hop has deteriorated what so many emcees in the 80’s tried to build- a culture of music, dance, creativity, and artistry that would give people not only something to bob their head to, but also an avenue to express themselves and deliver a positive message to their surroundings.. What does the term “commercial” mean? It can take on various meanings, but in essence that term is used to label artists who have alienated parts of the hip-hop culture in their work. The High and Mighty, a duo from Philadelphia signed to Rawkus Records, summed up what commercial hip-hop is in their 1999 single release “The Meaning”. Mr. Eon says: “…they’re tryin’ to turn hip-hop to just plain rappin’/let the poppers pop/and the breakers break…” But the disenchantment with artists who don’t appreciate hip-hop as consisting of emceeing, breaking, graffiti art, beat boxing and dj-ing is not new. Underground artists, predominately hip-hop purists, have lashed out at biters and perpetrators for many years. For example, in 1989 3rd Bass released their first album, The Cactus Cee/D. Throughout the album, MC Serch and Prime Minister Pete Nice scold the commercialized booty shakers like MC Hammer for corrupting hip-hop, particularly on the track “The Gasface” they specifically call out Hammer for his antics...

I am sorry but the scene has appeared to be the most powerful thing, NOT the underground thing, for a LONG time, which is in part why I mock it. Consider my position, hoping to keep alive French in Louisiana, when the young people there want to honor rap, the traditional music of Bronx and Brooklyn, instead of Louisiana's French music and language. It is Goliath, not David. Clear. I do appreciate your point - which is why I used the word 'appear' - the underground thing is often an illusion - as with gangsta rap What you say about language just affirms what I said earlier - that 'Hip Hop' (which represents much more than just the music, at least as much as 'jazz') has had an enormous cultural impact, and I still think that the word 'rap' is not like the word 'jazz' as it is much more specific.

Gets good reviews everywhere... Excerpt from allaboutjazz.com: "Various documentaries have been made about jazz over the years with mixed results. While the 1993 DVD Masters of American Music: The Story of Jazz is only 98 minutes long, it ends up being far more wide-ranging, less repetitious and better written than the much longer and somewhat controversial Ken Burns' Jazz released the following decade. The Story of Jazz covers the early cross-cultural roots of jazz then every major style by blending focused writing, plus careful choice of photos, music, film, video and interview subjects...."

Fair enough – I was being mischievous really – and changed my mind but Christiern already saw my post before I deleted it… I watched the first part again yesterday – the sickly sweet mix of pre-destination, nostalgia and sentimentality (it’s the absence of these things that I like in blues music particularly – unless you count tongue-in-cheek pessimism) made me curious about Ken Burns’ ideas so I was just looking at various stuff about him as I knew nothing… I didn't mean to piss anyone off with that post - I genuinely thought those interviews explained quite a bit about his motives, and misdemeanours :blush2: I thought Wynton Marsalis was very photogenic on camera, and oddly old fashioned (intended of course) and all that slightly prudish way of putting things (about Storyville – “people gambling, showing their behinds in different various ways…”!) was quite funny – you can see why a film maker would want him quite prominent from a presentation angle – like somebody transported from the good ol’ days. Then all that stuff about the blues arriving in New Orleans in 1890ish, fully formed, with backing music from 30 odd years later… Erm... just to be clear, I naively thought that Burns' words were so daft it was unecessary to comment - and everyone knows Utah Smith had the biggest wings anyway

ironic that my purely objective presentation of an interview should be seen as an endorsement of the opinions contained therein...

Ok - so you saw it already... to be honest I didn't know what the etiquette here was on commenting on such things As none of this makes sense now I'll repost my original post, even if it is already obvious anyway: (something like...) I read an illuminating interview on www.religion-online.org which seem to explain somewhat Ken Burns' agenda and seemed relevant to the Jazz film: "interested less in the organized forms of religion than in spiritual pursuit as a way toward the perfectibility of an imperfectible species called human beings. I would hope that spirituality does not succumb to the logic of reason and empiricism. We are all faced daily with mysteries beyond our comprehension. Part of what we do in literature and in art, as well as in religion, is attempt to superimpose some order, some meaning, on what seems to be the randomness of the cosmos. In that superimposition are often the most beautiful things that human beings do--not just in the production of art and literature or the glory of cathedrals but in human relations. I would hope with every fiber of my being that that would not leave us. My mission--and I'm happy to say that there is a huge evangelical dimension to what I'm doing--is preaching the gospel of Americanism, but one that is mindful of the fact that it is not separated from questions of the spirit and the soul's survival." and also on the PBS site: "Each time we did an interview for the film, whether it was with musicians who played with him years ago or musicians struggling today to come to terms with his legacy; whether it was critics, writers or historians, friends, hangers-on or people in management, each would in the end shake their head and say that Louis Armstrong was a "gift from God" or "an Angel." Near the end of the editing process, I happened to be out on the road and came across a women who for lack of a better word is a psychic, a medium familiar with things not of this world. When I told her of the interviews and how each person had called Armstrong an angel, she closed her eyes and smiled and said softly, "biggest wings I've ever seen." But maybe Wynton Marsalis, a great trumpet player in his own right, said it best when I asked him about Louis. He had already insisted that Armstrong was chosen by God "to bring the feeling and message and the identity of jazz to everybody." I left no opinion on my original post because I didn't think it necessary, and still don't.

Ok - so you saw it already... to be honest I didn't know what the etiquette here was on commenting on such things

ok I changed my mind - probably unwise to follow that line of inquiry. Post edited I will comment on the hair instead - surely a wig. A traitor to baldies.

The whole Hip Hop scene, actually, has to appear to be underground - spraying up walls etc - can that really be fully integrated, without killing it?

Reggae and Hip Hop - the to-and-froing of US to JA music is complicated. Lots of references state that DJ Kool Herc came over to NY from Jamaica as a teenager in '67, having heard the Sound system toasters etc - but at that point in JA, the dj style was fairly limited - people like Count Machuki, King Stitt had toasted only interjections and intros etc - and this was originally (1950s) copied from the jive talk of US R&B deejays on the radio anyway - AND, the music the Jamaicans talked over at that early time were US products - Louis Jordan etc... subsequently the sound system guys (Coxsone Dodd, Duke Reid..) decided to record local musicians - largely the musicians that the sound systems had displaced from the earlier live jazz scene (Don Drummond, Roland Alphonso..). This eventually led to ska (my teen obsession)... rocksteady, then reggae - at which point (late sixties) the practise of removing vocals from a track, and toasting (sparingly) over the instrumental evolved - and soon this became almost exclusively the b-side of every 45 issued (for economic reasons) - the 'version'. Then U-Roy, in '69 began revolutionizing things by creating lengthy toasts, 'riding' the rhythm and paving the way for the younger djs in the seventies... meanwhile DUB developed further, more manipulation of the rhythm track, added effects, full albums being produced, 'ghosted' from existing tracks - deejays not necessarily a requirement. But I think that Kool Herc's live twin turntable 'looping' or repeating the same portion of track for dancing was original to NY? Also - House music began after Hip Hop - early eighties... (know nothing about it though - I just remember kids on the school bus listening to it and thinking it was rubbish )

Of course jazz underwent incredible changes under that banner during it’s first 30 years of recording - but it was a different world - there may have been all kinds of reasons to not stray from the hard-fought prestige of the word ‘jazz’ - could the beboppers afford to abandon any link to it even if they had wanted to? - not just prestige at stake but a livelihood too... anyway, they were insiders already weren’t they? The possibilities within jazz were stretched, but maybe it had to be called jazz, in the same way that Marcel Duchamp still had to sign his anti-art artworks in the time-honoured fashion - or else, as he said, he’d have been put in an asylum. Nowadays the idea of difference, or disorder or discontinuity is much better tolerated (expected even... and probably jazz helped this situation come about) and so anyone who sets up a studio and starts putting out a slight variation on a theme feels the need to call it something new, rebrand it, give it a spin and see if it runs for a year or two before someone invents something else. The individual is valued over the ‘movement’.

How about 'be-bop' or 'boogie-woogie'...

It's hardly a fair comparison really - 'rap' is just a specific vocal style, fairer perhaps (though equally pointless) to compare rap to 'scat' or something... As for the influence of Hip Hop - merely, as you hint at, a question of rebranding - there have been an infinite number of new 'genres' that came out of Hip Hop... and its elements have been incorporated into just about every other genre - metal, reggae, bangra, punk, blues... besides which, the whole look of things has changed after it, look at the way people write on walls compared to 40 years ago, or the way kids talk (even here in the UK there's an extremely pronounced difference) or graphic design, TV shows, FASHION.. etc etc.

Interesting video (for someone who stopped listening early nineties!) – it sounds much more like performance poetry – more emphasis on the weight of words rather than the rhythmic attack… to my ears the music changed as the function changed, same as with jazz – from dance accompaniment to artform in its own right. I think the performer has always been in a very close relationship with the audience, each unable to escape the other maybe – hence a lot of the troubles with gangster rap (If I refuse to examine the music beyond its aesthetic qualities - a notion evidently problematic with black music – I have to admit that some of the violent stuff sounds very seductive – Ice T’s ‘New Jack Hustler’ for example…). Like the early Jamaican Djs who were really there to encourage dancing by toasting over the backing track – the old school stuff sounded playful … and like in Jamaica, once the technique is down on record you have to find stuff to rap about – but without a resident millennial religious sect to provide inspiration, the secular issues of everyday life seem a valid alternative. The sampled elements are as legitimate as Picasso pasting ‘real’ objects onto his canvases… Btw - being always drawn (through some psychopathological shortcoming no doubt) to the study of prehistoric animals rather than the currently flourishing, I’m also tempted to look for US antecedents in people like Wynonie Harris – but I think it’s difficult to place exactly where any precursors lie – there are probably real ones, and plenty of illusory ones – the preacher records, with rhythmic talking over a background congregation (Isiah Shelton’s ‘The Liar’), or someone like Pinetop Smith who calls out encouragement to the dancers over, and extra to the boogie background – much like the early toasters, but then there’s Emmett Miller’s ‘The Gypsy’ – which erupts into a kind of blackface rap halfway through… so I’ll stick with the DJ, the turntable and the hungry crowd!

At school I was into Hip Hop for a little while - I never stopped liking it but drifted away, the kids who really loved it became part of a whole scene - DJing, grafitti, clothes - same as with any youth subculture (it swept away the early eighties mod revival)... I loved these oldies as a kid (still sound GREAT to me!): Roxanne Shante Spoonie Gee