Hot Ptah

Kay Kyser Kay Starr Bart Starr Moon Mullins Venus Flytrap Mercury Morris John Cipollina Gary Duncan Randy Duncan

Kay Kyser Kay Starr Bart Starr

Did you receive a promotional email from Louise, touting her site, in which this Crouch thread is one of the few specific items mentioned as a recent highlight? I did.

Bobby Charles Charles Barkley Alban Barkley

I read that Clifford Brown had to sneak out to make his recordings in Paris while a member of Lionel Hampton's band, because Hampton had forbidden his musicians from any outside recording on the trip. I wonder if Sun Ra's prohibition of Gilmore doing outside work was all that unusual.

Pepper Martin Martin Short Eddie Gaedel

Virginia Woolf Virginia Mayhew Peter Mayhew

There is another aspect to this subject. In many cities smaller than say, New York, there are just not that many places left any more which are independently owned and unique--the small, interesting shop. To me, there is something lost when a one of the dwindling number of small, interesting, locally owned shops is lost, and the national chain stores are closer to being all that is left. So when three of the five used music stores in a city close in a short time, there is a quality of life issue to those who just like to be in such places from time to time. Not all of such people are "High Fidelity" Jack Black-loser wannabes.

This post is very much on the mark, in my opinion. You said it better than I could about his concerts. After reading, and listening to tapes, of several of his extended interviews, I think it is fair to say that if Sun Ra wanted to talk about literally anything, the idea that he'd be stopped by literally anything "is whack."

I do see a value in obtaining a full explanation from a partner who has announced plans to leave you. There can be misconceptions in a marriage, in which one partner projects his or her own thoughts, feelings, family or childhood background etc. onto the objectively neutral behavior of the other. It would be valuable, in my opinion, to be sure that the partner planning to leave was not doing so based on a misconception. One can say that if there was great communication in a marriage that such a thing could not happen, but in my experience, it certainly can, even with a lot of communication in general.

I have to say that I find this entire topic to be somewhat of a yawn. There were and are gay people in show business? Wow, what a stunning revelation! Who could have imagined it? Also, the stories of women having to grant sexual favors to powerful men in the entertainment industry throughout the decades are so legion as to be a cliche. So why is a similar story about a gay man in a position of leadership so fascinating? If Sun Ra's concerts were based on gay culture, it sure went over the heads of everyone I attended them with. I wonder if some of the people commenting here never saw one of his concerts. Apart from the excellent jazz playing, they were a very strange universe onto themselves, on some level not capable of being verbally explained or broken down. To pin a label on them or pigeonhole them into anything else on Earth does not do them justice--in my humble opinion.

I love the Quentin Jackson vocal on those Burrell sessions. Very warm and heartfelt, without being too smooth.

Lynn Hope Faith Charity MG Gates Brown Jim Northrup Mickey Stanley

A group of us guys wore out Side 1, "The Queen's Suite", on our vinyl copy at our jazz loving apartment in college in the 1970s. I especially love 'Sunset and the Mockingbird' and 'Single Petal of a Rose.' I am glad that you found this one!

Here's what I don't understand. I can see how some people could interpret Sun Ra's theatrical act as a minstrel show, although I strongly disagree with that. To me, it was anything but a "minstrel show" in the tradition of earlier minstrel shows. But anyway, why "for white liberals"? To me, there was absolutely no targeting to either white people, or to people of any conventional political persuasion. Sun Ra's talks and song lyrics at these concerts did not make any conventional sense. I often found myself completely confused and nonplussed by what he was saying. As it got more and more frustrating to follow, I would finally just think to myself, "oh well, who cares what it means." Actually, John Zwed's biography contains some background to Sun Ra's belief system which now helps me to understand better what Sun Ra had been talking about, and it has absolutely nothing to do with "white liberals." Am I missing something?

I wonder if youmustbe and I saw Sun Ra at very different times. I saw him live in the 1978-90 period. I wonder if youmustbe is referring to an earlier point in time for his "Minstrel Show for White Liberals" comment. youmustbe, are you referring to an earlier time, or did you also mean the 1978-90 period? When I saw Sun Ra several times from 1978-90, I saw theatrical shows, certainly, but with little political content. It was often more funny/weird than anything. I think that most members of the audience, regardless of race, saw the theatrical elements as either being strangely entertaining, and diverting in their way, even though a lot of it was difficult to literally understand---or as being over-the-top and somewhat unfortunate, something to sit through and until the good musical parts came. Either way, I think that much of the audience cut Sun Ra some slack on those theatrical elements because they knew that music was coming. Occasionally the theatrical elements were genuinely exciting or fun. I heard the Arkestra often play tight, swinging renditions of Duke Ellington and Fletcher Henderson songs, expertly rendered. I once took a woman who loved 1930s big band recordings and no other jazz to a 1981 Sun Ra show, and she loved the big band swing sections. She thought that the rest was "too loud." I heard the Arkestra play many great avant garde pieces, with excellent solos by many musicians, not just Gilmore by any means. Some of the avant garde pieces were quiet, even delicate. Sun Ra himself played some excellent piano and organ solos at many of the concerts. When he concentrated on playing as well as he could, he was a really good pianist, in mainstream styles as well as avant garde. I also heard them Arkestra play some very appealing, melodic, "inside" compositions by Sun Ra, in tight, focused performances, which were quite beautiful. I can recall a version of "Fate in a Pleasant Mood" with flute solos that were lovely, by Marshall Allen and others. One performance at the Detroit Art Museum in 1980 on Halloween stands out in my mind. After a swinging, bouncy, very tight and subtle big band rendition of "Satin Doll", which has to be one of the best big band swing performances I have ever heard by anyone, the next song consisted of many Arkestra members playing percussion instruments in a frenzied way, while individual Arkestra members danced wildly at center stage in Halloween costumes, which they tore off at the end of their interpretive dance, to reveal who was underneath the costume. The wildest dancer was in a Darth Vader costume (this was a few months after the second Star Wars movie had been released). At the end of the dance, Darth Vader tore off his helmet to reveal John Gilmore underneath, and the audience roared with laughter. What is one to make of this? To me, it was great music followed by zany fun--or maybe just dumb stuff meant to be fun in some way. I don't know why it is a "Minstrel Show for White Liberals" though. Another time, at the 1978 Ann Arbor Jazz Festival, the show started with June Tyson singing, "the sky is a sea of darkness when there is no sun, when there is no sun to light the way..." The Arkestra erupted into an all out free jazz blowout, nearly deafening. Slowly, some movement appeared in the center of the stage. Sun Ra slowly rose out of the stage floor, on a part of the stage which could raise and lower. He was wildly strumming the very thin, long wires of a sculpture that had been in the lobby of the theater before the show, as he rose higher and higher out of the ground, finally to stage level. Suddenly the entire Arkestra went from all out shrieking to dead silence, and only the nearly inaudible sounds of the tiny wires being strummed could be heard. The audience screamed--it was an amazing spectacle. Again, this is unusual, but why is it a "Minstrel Show for White Liberals?" A few mintues later, the Arkestra played a great, swinging, tight rendition of Fletcher Henderson's "Yeah Man". I have a tape of this performance. When I did hear Sun Ra talk about politics at his concerts, they were anti-nuclear war rants. The Soviet Union and U.S. were enemies then, with large nuclear arsenals pointing at each other, and Sun Ra would shout out his theories that the Soviet and U.S. leaders were planning to escape into outer space and blow up Earth. Again, why a "Minstrel Show for White Liberals"? I don't see it, but maybe youmustbe saw something different, or had a different interpretation of what was being presented.

Kansas City's live jazz scene over the past 20 years has been mixed. I would love to get the reactions of the other Kansas City members of this forum to what I am going to write. There are now two national subscription concert series, with about six or seven shows each, which run from September to May, about one or two shows a month. They are presented by not-for-profit venues, with substantial corporate and government support. One theater, the Folly, seats about 1000, and the other, the Gem, seats 500. The presenters naturally hope to attract good crowds for these shows, and present bigger names, and mostly mainstream-as-they-come artists. Some are near sell-outs, while others draw only half capacity. There is a limited number of national artist club appearances each year--these are unpredictable, and usually occur at the Blue Room, a jazz club in the American Jazz Museum at 18th and Vine (also the location of the Gem Theater). Bobby Watson is the jazz professor at the local university, and appears live several times a year, which helps a lot. There is a Rhythm and Ribs blues and jazz festival over the Fathers Day weekend, which has had one or two "real jazz" artists each time, in its two year history. For national artists therefore, one can see some of the big names once or twice every five years. There is very little to no national artist avant garde jazz presented each year. Excellent musicians who could not sell out a 1000 or 500 seat theater will probably not be seen for many years, if ever. There used to be a three day Blues and Jazz Festival for many years in the summer, with three or four stages going from noon until late at night, where you could catch a lot of acts that would otherwise never come to town. That Festival went out of business a few years ago and has not been resurrected. There is a lot of local live jazz, all the time, with several clubs regularly presenting the local acts. Some of them are excellent. The local jazz does tend to be jumpin' blues/vocal oriented, centered on pre-bop styles. Of course there are some exceptions. Again, there is little avant garde jazz. Sometimes I think that we have it pretty good. Then I will mention to one of my friends on the East Coast that I just saw a particular drummer for the first time, playing as a sideman with a big name. The East Coast friend will describe the eight times he has seen that drummer live, and how the drummer's performances varied in different contexts. I realize that the drummer will probably never come to town again, or if he does, he will be a sideman again with another big name player, and will probably come in about three to five years. If you cannot catch a national artist's concert because of work or family conflicts, it is likely that you will not have a chance to see that artist for a very long time, and you have also just missed one of the relatively few jazz highlights of the year. At times over the past twenty years, the live scene has been much more sparse than it is now. The live scene is fragile--if the Folly, Gem and Blue Room lost their corporate and/or government support, it would be a live scene with virtually no national acts coming to town.

Vincent Pastore Dan Pastorini Lynn Dickey

I saw Sun Ra live many times and got a lot more out of the music than you have said here. The music was not amateurish at any of the concerts I attended. I heard a lot of great soloing by many musicians, and some tight, swinging music, together with some great avant garde stuff. I never heard any "Minstrel Show for White Liberals" connotations at all. I don't understand what you are talking about.

My theory is that people who act like jerks online are really jerks essentially, as part of their true nature, but they cover it up with a thin veneer of respectability when dealing with people face to face, for their own self-interest if nothing else. When they feel anonymous online, they let their true selves out. Of course, this could be completely wrong, just my musings.

Freddie King Freddie Hubbard L. Ron Hubbard

Albert Collins Albert King King Pleasure

Pie Traynor Honus Wagner Roberto Clemente

Little Milton John Milton Milton Bradley

Question--I am pretty new to this game, and I read the game instructions at the beginning. Are we supposed to name people, or not? Quite often the three items listed are not people at all. Did the game evolve over time that way, or am I missing something? Preston Love Preston Gomez Don Preston