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garthsj
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Posts posted by garthsj
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This is a subject that may never have an absolutely varifiable answer, but over the years I believe that Miles Davis's "KIND OF BLUE" has probably outsold "A LOVE SUPREME". For one thing, it is more accessible to the general jazz audience, and has a relatively wider appeal to the casual jazz listener. In the 1950's one album, Shelly Manne's "MY FAIR LADY" with Andre Previn and Leroy Vinnegar, sold a lot of copies... how many? Who knows?
I also wonder how many copies of Benny Goodman's "CARNEGIE HALL CONCERT" have been sold over the years?
Now .. if you consider Norah Jones to be a "jazz performer" (she doesn't), then you are into a whole new bag.
Garth.
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I, like all other Warne Marsh fans, welcome the opportunity to get a remastered version of this great album, although the sound on the original issue was pretty high quality to begin with. (Most of the Revelation LPs had very clear presence). What does puzzle me though is why this album is considered to be "just" a Warne Marsh album? There is another saxophonist on this album .. altoist Gary Foster .. who is not exactly chopped liver, and his contribution to the overall session is quite the equal of Marsh. (The rest of the group is Dave Parlato on bass, and John Tirabasso on drums. Recorded 25th October, 1969).
.. I just thought that Gary should get his time in the Organissimo sun ... He currently has a fine new album recently released: Bill Cunliffe and Gary Foster, "IT'S ABOUT LOVE: The Music of Reed Kotler" (Torii Records - no catalog number).
There are, of course, other fine albums from the now defunct Revelation catalog which deserve reissuing as well.
Garth.
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Clarence Gene Shaw (b. Detroit, Michigan, 6/16/26) was one of the "mystery" musicians for those of us who grew up with this music. I, like you, was blown away when I first heard him on 'TIJUANA MOODS" and made a real effort to find other music featuring his unique trumpet sound. Other than his recordings with Mingus, he did three fine albums for the Argo label between 1962 and 1964 -- "Breakthrough" 707, "Debut in Blues" 726. and "Carnival Sketches" 743. As far as I know none of these have been reissued on CD in this country. The story has been widely circulated that during the taping of the Bethlehem jazz and poetry album, "SYMPOSIUM" in 1958, Shaw became ill, and was forced to miss a session. Shaw tried to call Mingus, but Mingus has apparently taken his phone off the hook. Eventually an angry Mingus called Shaw at home to say that he was ruining the recording date, and that "I'm going to have some cats kill you!!" Shaw was so upset by this that he actually destroyed his trumpet, and never played for Mingus again, and Bill Hardman played trumpet on the remaining two cuts. It should be remembered that TIJUANA MOODS was actually recorded in 1957, and not released until 1962, at which time Clarence Shaw become an instant hit with jazz fans. However, it is not certain whether his intimidation by Mingus had an effect of his susequent career, but he never fulfilled the incredible promise he offered in with TIJUANA MOODS.
I have consulted all of my many jazz directories, encyclopedias, and discographies, but I am unable to find out much about his life after the mid-1960s. I do know that he is deceased.
Garth.
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Linda Shank (Bud Shank's wife) just posted this letter on the West Coast Jazz list:
I just received an email from their editor Jason something (wasn't there a
movie about this guy?). For their 70th anniversary issue they are featuring
"major" jazz players including alto saxophonists. The article will not
include Phil Woods (first in their own poll this year), Lee Konitz, Bud
Shank (third in their own poll this year), Ornette Coleman. I mean, who ARE
they talking to? Do they know that the saxophone is that instrument that
uses a reed? Degeulasse!! Linda Shank
I wonder who will be given a nod in this issue?
Garth.
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I'd recommend "Jan Johansson - Den Korta Fristen". Johansson was a major Swedish pianist in the 60s who was killed in a car crash in 1968. This disc is a large ensemble disc - quite challenging, suggesting some associations with contemporary classical music.
I got interested in Johansson as a result of a trip to Sweden last year and CD Baby was the place I found the disc.
He produced an album called Folkvisor which is apparently the best selling Swedish jazz record of all time. CD Baby sell it (with a second LP, two on one), though every time I try to order they are waiting for a new supply.
I'd imagine Johansson was one of the ancestors of the current wave of Swedish jazz pianists.
CD Baby has been a favorite hunting ground of mine for several years now. Not everything "hits" but there is some wonderful stuff not found elsewere. The late Jan Johansson was a terrific, and eclectic pianist who would be much more internationally known if he had lived. He was moving in a very different direction at the time of his death, and would have made a significant contribution to modern music, as indicated by the records he made late in life. However, my particular favorite of his is an early series of trio albums that are a pure delight to listen to ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/johansson4
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Speaking of the MJQ 40 Years Box, I notice as I write this that there is one being sold on Ebay with a starting bid price of $24.99, with no bids yet.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...agename=rvi:1:1
On the other hand Amazon has two used copies available from their independant dealers, starting at $269.94!!!! Makes me wonder .... do I buy the Ebay box, and sell my original privately through Amazon??
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=music
Hmmmmmmm.. what to do? ... What to do?
Garth
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This is a recent one from Konitz with drummer Matt Wilson .... interesting ... great in parts ...
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It's also true the Shorty Rogers Atlantic etc. was a low sale set. Strange since it's great music and not otherwise available (then).
It is interesting that both the Shorty Rogers and the Buddy DeFranco sets usually go for about $50-$65 for each CD when sold on Ebay....!!! These are obviously among the most desireable Mosaic sets for late comers.. I have both sets on LP ... a kind member here made me a CDR set of the DeFranco ... I am still trying to find someone to trade my LP set of the Rogers for a CD set!
Garth.
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I just miss those Tower $7.99 sales. They were made for upgrading.
Yes, those where the good ole days.
I picked up a lot of BN and Verve titles during those sales.
Cool!
At prices like that, you'd feel like a chump for NOT upgrading.
Brass,
You just need to go here. Might have to wait awhile for the new releases but......
Order $99 and you don't pay shipping and probably no tax.
Good ol' days are here again
I buy a lot of things from AllDirect .. which begs the question .. why does it take a relatively longer time (usually 4-6 weeks) for the latest releases to appear on their website? I tried to ask them this question once, and basically was told, "if it ain't on the site, we do not have it..". They eventually get most things, so they are the best site for backlist fill-ins ... In the meantime, getting those new Blue Notes from CDUniverse on pre-order at $8.39 is not too bad.
Garth.
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Has anyone mentioned the great, idiosyncratic version by Ella and Louis? .. This is a real gem, with great orchestral arrangements by Russ Garcia, who now happily lives in isolation in New Zealand. ....
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garthsj -
the Revelation albums to which I refer are/were exceprts from the Half Note, some of which appear in toto on the Verve 2 CD set, the rest of which remain unissued in full, at least to my knowledge. The Ind released things are different performances altogether, although they are every bit as superb, and every bit as recommended. Warne was definitely in a zone during those 1959-1960 NY years!
You are right! Damn! Without my original LPs I got confused about these late 50's Marsh/Konitz "extract" albums from Revelation and Wave. Peter Ind is to be congratulated for keeping these available. Tantalizingly, in the liner notes to the Marsh album, he claims that he has tapes of the Gerry Mulligan Jazz Orchestra from those days, and "It is my hope that given time and success with Wave -- more of this music can be released." I wonder if that will ever happen?
In the meantime ... I cannot stress how incredible the improvisations are on these two CDs....
Garth.
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Does anyone remember a version with Ray Charles and Cleo Lane?
The interesting thing about this recording is that they were NOT in the studio at the same time .. each recorded their parts separately ... it is hard to detect this from listening to the album though.
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I got the MJQ 40 Years box set last year, and although I had a lot of their Atlantic albums in some form, it watered my mouth for all of them, so the new Porgy and Bess CD will find its way to my CD bin, for sure. Hope there will be more. Still have to get the Lighthouse CD, and wait for a CD of the Fontessa LP with both the mono and stereo takes!
Yes, the MJQ 40 year box is a great one. The sound on the these CDs is superior to that on the individual CDs available at the time of its release, in particular the cuts from the Giuffre "Music Inn" album. I have a Japanese reissue of that album, and the remastering was just awful.
Your comment about reissuing both the stereo and mono versions of "Fontessa" is spot on! I remember when I stumbled across a (rare) stereo version of this album after many years of living with the original mono album, and discovering, much to my surprise, that I could not "sing along" with John Lewis's solos on many of the cuts. After close listening it was clear that the stereo cuts were different takes, a fact that was not universally known at that time. (I am not sure that the composition "Fontessa" itself is a different take, though). Of course, we now know that many early Atlantics (e.g. the Shorty Rogers big band recordings), were done on both stereo and mono takes ... a feast for jazz fans like myself. ...
Garth.
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bebopbob,
Have you (or anyone else on this board for that matter) heard the original lp? How does this performance rate? I really like the MJQ and I would love to hear another excellent performance of Porgy and Bess.
I should make it clear that I am an unabashed fan of the MJQ, and find almost everything that they did to be of enormous interest. (I can always discover something new, like a hidden John Lewis vamp, everytime I listen to one of their albums). That said, the "Porgy and Bess" album is excellent, not among the very best that group recorded, but an album well worth owning. I am looking forward to having a true. hopefully remastered CD (as opposed to the CDR version of my old LP) of this album.
Has anyone out there acquired the "Complete Prestige/Pablo MJQ" set? I have multiple versions of the Prestiges and all of the original Pablos, but is this new box set remastered?
I must have owned eight or more versions of the original Milt Jackson Quartet/MJQ material on Savoy over the years. I was quite disappointed in the 20bit remastering of this material on Savoy recently. My old London label 10" vinyl sounded superior. This seminal material, the foundation of the MJQ as it came out of the Dizzy Gillespie Orchestra, definitely needs to be honored with a quality remastering.
Garth.
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I have been a fan of Warne Marsh since I first heard the Atlantic album with Konitz, as well as his own Atlantic album when they were first released. "The Art of Improvisation" (as well as "Jazz From The East Village") are wonderful abums. Here is a picture of the second volume produced by bassist Peter Ind on his Wave label from the original tapes he made in 1960. These are the reconstructed performances from which the original Marsh solos were extracted. The bottom album is the remainder of the music from the session first released on Atlantic as "The Real Lee Konitz" ... both of these CDs are superb examples of these two musicians in their prime ....
Garth.
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It's my understanding that Sheldon Meyer is back in one way or another and is still somewhat active in publishing. If I recall correctly, he's involved in the career retrospective book that Dan Morgenstern is compiling from his old files.
But unfortunately Meyer's name on a project isn't a 100% guarantee of quality. The P.O.S. biography of Clifford Brown was something he was (at least nominally) involved in and they don't come much worse than that. I would be surprised to learn that anyone with half a brain had edited or even diligently read that book before it went to press.
ml
Mike
Michael .... You of all people should know that SENIOR Editors do not actually edit.. they think of subjects they like which might make money (in most cases), and sign up authors ... The real editing work these days is mostly up to the authors. I am lucky in that Cambridge UP still believes in working the old way, with "real" editors making nasty comments in red or blue pencil all over one's manuscript ...
I must also agree .. I found the Clifford Brown book very disappointing ... There is still room for a great book on Clifford ... maybe your next project Mike?
Also, many thanks for the references to the interviews with Porter.. as a writer/researcher I found these "tales of the trade" to be very enlightening..
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Garth,
Do you have a suggestion as to where I can get the Morgan-Horricks book. I would like to read it.
Brad:
As I said I was surprised to see that this book is readily available... try this link. If it does not show up the actual book, just insert the book title and author.. Alun Morgan... there is one "working copy" available for the less than $6.00 .... A really interesting addition to anyone's jazz library ..
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDe...sPL?bi=79328924
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Bruce.. You mean this double album is NOT part of the Mosaic set.... ???? I never got the Mosaic because I thought that I had everything this duo did together .... hmmmm...
Garth.
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Larry ... do you know this little gem of a book, published in 1956? I acquired this copy as a teenager, and have dragged it around the world wth me since then. In far off Cape Town, this book with its obviously limited discographies, was the open window which first introduced me to the basic modern jazz repertoire. It is still a wonderful read, and takes on a new glow as the passing of the years give validity to some of their earlier judgements, e.g. "Gil Evans's real value sprang from his understanding of the orchestra rather than from the creation of original material."
I was pleasantly surprised to see that it is still readily available through abe, and at a reasonable price too... If you don't have a copy I would highly recommend that it should have a place in your library.
Question: Why do the British (and other Europeans) do this kind of thing so much better than American jazz critics?
Garth.
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Two unfortunately out-of-print works (obtainable through used book sites) from a pair of often brilliant British writers: Francis Newton's very shrewd and commonsensical "The Jazz Scene" (Newton is the pseudonym of well-known political and social historian Eric Hobsbawn, who chose "Francis Newton" [once knew why he thought a pseudonym was a good idea here, but I've forgotten; the book was later reprinted under H's own name] because he admired Frankie Newton as a trumpeter and because they were fellow members of the Communist Party--though I don't see that Hobsbawm's political slant intrudes much here) and Max Harrison's substantial segment of "The New Grove Gospel, Blues and Jazz (with Spirituals and Ragtime)." Harrison's co-authors are Paul Oliver (blues, gospel, and spirituals) and William Bolcolm (ragtime).
I have long been an admirer of Max Harrison and his co-authors (Eric Thacker, and Stuart Nicholson)... their current volume "THE ESSENTIAL JAZZ RECORDS: Vol. 2 Modernism to Postmodernism (Mansell Publishing, 2000) is, for me, like a bible. I can always pick it up and find something worthwhile to read, and it is fun to see how many of these albums I have in my collection. While their evaluations are often idisyncratic, or very technical, they also force me to listen more closely to what I may have missed. In an earlier edition of this book, Max Harrison, et.al., MODERN JAZZ: THE ESSENTIAL RECORDS (AQUARIUS BOOKS, 1978), the authors listed 200 vinyl albums. I carefuly ticked off in red ink each of those albums that I acquired, reaching about 172 before I sold my entire vinyl collection. As I l look at that book now, I see that most of those of the gaps fall into the Cecil Taylor area ... I am NOT a great fan of Cecil's music ...
Garth.
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I just received the following shipping confirmation from CDUniverse:
CD 1 1 Montreal Tapes by Haden, Charl $10.49 Shipped 1 on Mar 23, 2004
CD 1 1 Soul Sisters by Coleman, Glori $6.99 Shipped 1 on Mar 23, 2004
CD 1 1 Goin' West by Green, Grant $8.39 Shipped 1 on Mar 23, 2004
CD 1 1 Right Now by McLean, Jackie $8.39 Shipped 1 on Mar 23, 2004
CD 1 1 Newk's Time by Rollins, Sonny $8.39 Shipped 1 on Mar 23, 2004
CD 1 1 The Cape Verdean Blues by Silv $8.39 Shipped 1 on Mar 23, 2004
CD 1 0 At The Half Note Cafe by Byrd, $19.94 (Not Shipped Yet)
What's up wih the Half Note? Is it delayed for some reason ... funny, I really debated about updating on this disc.. but I do love Pepper Adams ... and extra tracks... yum yum!
Garth.
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I thought that Neil Leonard did write a later book on jazz; in fact, I think I have it! JAZZ: MYTH & RELIGION. I recently mentioned it to Lon. Still haven't read the 1962 book, though.
I guess I should have expanded on this. I approached Leonard with a typical enthusiastic graduate student's demeanor .... I was a little older than the average grad student, and had several years of doing a jazz radio show in Toronto under my belt. I think he may have found my "enthusiasm" a little too much for him, too atheoretical, so he claimed to have moved on, and was much more focussed on dealing with the subject of his seminar, which was on qualitative research. I was very surprised when 17 years later he published his subsequent book on JAZZ: MYTH AND RELIGION (Oxford UP, 1987).
I should also add that this is a VERY provocative study, and deserves to be read by every thinking jazz fan. Let me quote from the jacket blurb:
"Examining music and religion in the broad sense, Neil Leonard uses the work of Max Weber and his followers to consider how listeners have regarded jazz as sacred or magical and created myths and rituals to implement and sustain this belief. In a time when conventional religions are in flux or decline, jazz has provided a focus for spiritul impulses tempered by the anomie, anxieties, and alienations of the twentieth century, Leoard maintains."
Now if only he had been willing to teach a seminar on jazz ....
BY THE WAY, I should have mentioned this earlier, but so many of these ground-breaking studies (see my scans above) were published by Oxford University Press, against the tide of the economics of the publishing industry, only because the Senior Editor, Sheldon Meyer was personally committed to publishing significant works on jazz. Every one of these books, and many others that Oxford published, make a point of thanking him for his strong support. He has now retired I believe, and there has been a definite decline in this publishing venture. Another blow for jazz!
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One thing about jazz writing is that a lot of it is journalistic rather than academic, a lot of the academics who are in the field don't know jazz as well as they might, and a lot of the more journalistic folks in the field (who often do know lots more than you'll read in books), are fans rather than critics. They are most interested in forwarding the cause of the music they love, not in analyzing it.
There is also, as Simon points out, a considerable hostility (for good and bad) in English-speaking culture toward "intellectualizing" and "academics" which you will see in a lot of writing on jazz, either in the background or in the foreground.
Gradually this is changing as jazz's center of gravity moves more toward the academy, the two worlds seem to be merging. Gioia probably being a good example of this.
More generally on meta-history: one of the good effects of the whole post-modernist movement in the intellectual sphere is the death (or at least the considerable weakening) of "meta-narratives" (obituary written by JF Lyotard, The Postmodern Condition: A Report on Knowledge).
This is one reason why social history is much more shy about determinism than it might have been in the past and much more concerned about the biographical details that, in jazz history, are still really the preserve of the fans and journalists.
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--eric
Eric is right. There is a trend against writing "meta-histories" in this post-modern age. It goes right back to the comment I made early in this thread that such "cosmic narratives" only invite critical attacks from specialists who are concerned that their particular slice of the world of (add your subject here) has been given either insufficient, or incorrect attention. This is unfortunate in my opinion, because we still need these "overviews" as a means of correlating the subject into some sort of cohesive whole that encourages and allows new perpectives.
Pardon me here if I become very personal in my experience as a social/cultural historian. In 1976 I wrote a book, "FILM: THE DEMOCRATIC ART - A Social History of Movegoing in America," (Little, Brown, 1976). Five months prior to my book appearing, Robert Sklar published his pioneering book, "MOVIE-MADE AMERICA: How the Movie Changed American Life," Random House, 1975. Our books were often the subject of joint reviews, which was apt because in some way we had approached the subject of the significance of movies in American life in very different, but complimentary ways. The point is that both these books were written by historians, and using historical reserach methods, and they were completely different from previous "histories of the movies". (In one complimentary review of my book, the reviewer enthusiastically noted that the book had "over a hiundred footnotes in some chapters"!) This type of reaction indicates the shift that Eric discusses from journalistic type writing which had been the previous paradigm in film history, to the work that Sklar and I (both trained historians) had produced.
However, the danger of producing a "meta history" such as this was soon made very apparent to me. A second reviewer, who later became a co-author on another book, pointed out that I was likely to suffer "the death of a thousand cuts" for having the temerity to tackle such a large subject. He was right, but I saw being a large target as a positive development in the emerging field of film history. In the nearly thirty years since that book was published it has been widely cited, and I have been "corrected" and "amended" hundreds of times, almost always with a nod to the "pioneering" aspect of my neophyte work. As I write this I am in the process of doing a revised second edition, which is, in fact, the creation of essentially a totally new work, such has been the level of correction and additional material that has appeared from a younger generation of scholars writing tight monographs on much more precise topics. (Literally entire books have been written in subjects I have dealt with in a few paragraphs). This makes the entire process of revising my original book much more difficult, and I sometimes wonder if there is even a need for the type of meta-history I am trying to write. The current scholarly climate in film studies is ambivalent on this subject; I get lots of encouragement to complete the revised edition, but on the other hand, there is increased scepticism that one person could be so audacious to think that he or she could hope to encompass all knowledge in one book.
I tell you all of this self-confessional because there is a similar trend in jazz historical studies. The significance of jazz as an integral part of the American social/cultural facric is becoming increasingly obvious. Many of the books I scanned above are the forerunners of scholarly works which are attempting to "place" jazz within the American Exerience. The basic theses of these mostly excellent mongraphs have yet to be included in a larger overview "meta-history" of jazz. I assume that such larger histories may be a long time in coming ... the economics of the publishing industry, and the dismal state of jazz appreciation in this country mitigates against such a development. What a pity!
.. this is a great thread by the way, but then I am predisposed to it ....
Garth.
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A page from the Borneman essay ...
Dizzy Reece Select
in Mosaic and other box sets...
Posted · Edited by garthsj
O.K. ..... bottom line here .... I am a very big supporter of Mosaic (they have a second mortgage on my house) ... BUT... is there any reason for me to get the Dizzy Reece Select, other than the booklet, if I already have all of this material on a variety of BN issues, both JRVG and domestic, acquired over the years? Is the remastering worth upgrading, or should I upgrade my original Vee-Jays by acquiring the Mosaic sets, which have received a lot of praise on the list?
Garth.