unknown guitarist

[tooter]

As part of my ongoing effort to produce a Ronnie Ross discography, a recording he made in 1988 at the Cannonball Club in Birmingham has come to light. It was a quartet date, the bass player Chris Bolton and the drummer Tony Levin. However, the guitarist is unknown and I am hoping that someone can identify him/her from the clip that can be heard on my (embryonic) website - My Webpage. I only have a dial-up connection and the clip doesn't play very well but with broadband it should be okay.

The tune being played is I Love You by Cole Porter, by the way.

Many thanks. Please let me know if there are any problems - this is an experiment really.

[robviti]

i wonder if the former owner of the birmingham could help, if he's still alive. his name is bob mackay.

[tooter]

Thanks JS. I will try to find Bob McKay. Any idea where? You do mean the "Cannonball Club" in Birmingham, England don't you?

[robviti]

yep, that's the one. mackay is mentioned on the band svengali's website. maybe they can help you out: svengali

also, you might want to check out this volunteer jazz site: birmingham jazz

Edited August 30, 2004 by jazzshrink

[tooter]

Thanks again, JS - will do as you suggest. I did find a Bob McKay with Google and am checking out his site. Email sent to him but it's a tough test for him to remember perhaps.

[Jim R]

tooter,

I went to your site, but saw no link to the download. Then I realized that it seemed to be downloading automatically. The problem is, I can't find the file on my computer.

A bit of a longshot for me anyway (I know a few names of british guitarists, but I'm no expert), but I'm curious to hear the clip.

[tooter]

Thanks, Jim - I was hoping you might look. When I access my site as a visitor, I just click on the play button (the triangle) of the "add-on" at the bottom of the homepage and it plays. The play button is grey but turns black when it is ready. The download is indicated by the grey bar becoming white but if you have broadband I understand it is very quick. If it still does not work I will seek advice.

The guitarist may not be a Brit - could easily be a European but doubtful that a visiting American would be nameless I guess.

[couw]

I went to your site, but saw no link to the download.

try this direct link

[Jim R]

Well, my computer ignorance is coming into play here, but:

I'm on a Mac, using IE 5.1.7, dial-up.

I see no "play" button/triangle on the homepage.

I keep getting a "cheap tickets" popup, which is annoying.

couw's link takes me to a Tripod page (http://rodneypledge.tripod.com/adm/interstitial/remote.html) with this message: This file is hosted by Tripod, a Lycos®Network Site, and is not available for download. Please check out Tripod's Help system for more information about Remote Loading and our Remote Loading policy.

As I said, the MP3 file seemed to download automatically when I first logged on to the page (took quite awhile to load). I tried to listen for the playback during the download, without success. When the download was complete, I could not find any new files on my desktop, nor in any downloads folder...

Edited August 30, 2004 by Jim R

[tooter]

Couw - thanks for the suggestion.

Jim - may I make some of the clip into an MP3 file of reasonable size and email it to you? Not much above 1MB - is that okay? It will be shorter than the clip at my site but should be enough to give a clear idea I think. If you only have a dial-up connection as I do then it would take a while to download but not too bad I should think.

[rockefeller center]

Copy/paste this address to your browser:

rodneypledge.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/nkguitar.mp3

[Jim R]

Copy/paste this address to your browser:

rodneypledge.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/nkguitar.mp3

That appears to be the same link that couw already provided (which didn't work for me).

tooter, sorry for the delay (IE quit on me when I went back to your site and tried again). I'll try to e-mail or PM you.

[couw]

I keep running into this very same problem with lycos. Disbling referrer logging seems to help (sometimes) and even then only by right-click-save (sometimes). can't figure out what the problem is really.

*STRANGE*

[tooter]

Jim - got PM - file has been sent with email. Took about 8 minutes to send is all. Almost the whole thing too.

I don't understand why the website clip wouldn't work but this only joins all the other things I don't understand about computers and their use.

Hope you can hear it now though. There's always a way I suppose.

I've got a pop-up blocker, if you download the Google toolbar, it's available with that. Well worthwhile - nothing worse than those damned things. I found out the other day that if you want to see blocked pop-ups anyway you just hold down control. You didn't really want to know that, did you?

Edited August 31, 2004 by tooter

[rockefeller center]

Copy/paste this address to your browser:

rodneypledge.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/nkguitar.mp3

That appears to be the same link that couw already provided (which didn't work for me).

for more information about Remote Loading and our Remote Loading policy

Remote Loading is the key word. If you don't access the file via Organissimo it works; at least here.

Edited August 30, 2004 by rockefeller center

[tooter]

I just knew this wouldn't be simple

[couw]

Copy/paste this address to your browser:

rodneypledge.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/nkguitar.mp3

That appears to be the same link that couw already provided (which didn't work for me).

for more information about Remote Loading and our Remote Loading policy

Remote Loading is the key word. If you don't access the file via Organissimo it works; at least here.

does this mean that a tinyURL *will* work?

try it please

[rockefeller center]

does this mean that a tinyURL *will* work?

No. You can't download the file when you access tripod from another server (due to tripod's remote loading policy). The tinyurl link (as well as tooter's original URL, of course) works if you paste it to the browser's address bar.

[couw]

remote loading policy sux

[Jim R]

Thanks to all for the technical assistance. Fortunately, I was able to download the file from tooter's e-mail, so I've already heard the clip. The trick now (it seems to me) is to come up with some names of players who might have been likely to have joined Ross at that location and at that time. I'm afraid I can't be of much service there, not knowing much about the british jazz scene then or now. Google provides a few possibilities, but I haven't recognized any of the names, nor do I recognize this player from hearing him (or her? ). Seems to me that what's needed here is some input from some of our UK members...

[tooter]

Seems to me that what's needed here is some input from some of our UK members...

Mmmm... lean pickings so far. My post elsewhere has 0 replies at the moment. This board much better.

There has been a suggestion that the guitarist is Dave Cliff but I can't tell. Another possibility that occurred to me was that it might be Philippe Catherine but this is only based on my belief that Tony Levin went on to play regularly with him from about a year later. From my slight familiarity with his playing I shouldn't think he is the one but I wonder if you can rule out either or both of these suggestions, Jim.

The remote downloading problem seems to make no sense at all. What are they doing? Does it depend on what applications one has? I can access it without any problem from my first link here on this thread and it plays, after a fashion and with many dropouts because of the dial-up connection.

Can anyone else tell me if they have been able to hear the clip, or if not what the problems were? Is it only Jim R who has had difficulty? I might want to post further queries of this kind so it would be good to get it right.

Edited August 31, 2004 by tooter

[Jim R]

Dave Cliff was one of the first names that occured to me, but for some reason I discounted the idea at first. Now that he's been mentioned here, I decided to compare the MP3 to the one example of Cliff I've got (his CD "Sippin' at Bells"). I do hear some similarities, although Cliff's playing on the CD is a bit more fluent than the mystery player, IMO. The CD dates from 1994, so there were six years between these recordings...

I don't think Phillip Catherine is going to be our man.

Another possibility I would suggest is David O'Rourke, who apparently worked with Ross at the Cork festival in 1985. Still a bit of a stretch for me to say it's him, but I think there's a possibility. Tonally, the mystery player more closely resembles O'Rourke than he does Cliff, at least with the examples I have to compare (my O'Rourke CD dates to '97, even further on timewise...).

Hope this helps!

[couw]

I don't think Phillip Catherine is going to be our man.

FWIW, I payed attention while playing a Wilen - Sanctuary today and support this notion

[tooter]

O'Rourke is a new name to me so thanks for the pointer. Just the Irish connection made me think also of Louis Stewart but I've only got one example of him playing with Ronnie Ross, in a Tony Kinsey band so not too likely I guess.

But I have received an email saying that my request for the info from Bob McKay has been forwarded to him, so that is hopeful - thanks to JazzShrink.

[Jim R]

Damn. I just listened to O'Rourke's "The Prize" CD in its entirety, and I don't think I heard him play a single chord during any solo. Also, at least by 1997, his style seems to be more harmonically adventurous than the man playing on "I love you". Maybe Cliff is still the most likely...