Mike LeDonne, Smokin Out Loud

[Dan Gould]

Most people know LeDonne as a talented hard bop pianist, but those who dig the Patterson/Patton/Earland school of organ jazz should not miss this album. I'd heard LeDonne on organ on Scott Hamilton's Organic Duke and he was fine there, but I think maybe his organ-playing heart is more in the hard bop-soul jazz groove of this album.

Excellent solos by Eric Alexander and Peter Bernstein, and some surprising (and surprisingly good) covers of tunes including two Carpenters tunes, "Superstar" and "They Long to Be Close To You" as well as more obvious tune choices like "Pisces Soul".

Very strongly recommended, unless you're one of the people on the other side of the fence when it comes to the ubiqitous Eric Alexander.

[Jim Alfredson]

I'll have to look for this. I really like LeDonne's organ playing.

Thanks, Dan!

[Jim Alfredson]

Ugh. I tried to listen to some samples on the JazzDepot site (home to Joe Fields' numerous labels) and they are in Real Media format. Christ, people still use that?

C'mon, Savant... mp3 has been the world standard for some time now.

[Dan Gould]

C'mon, Jim, you don't need no stinking samples, you need the disc!

BTW, are there other LeDonne organ albums I'm not aware of, or have you heard him live, or are you basing your judgement of his playing on the Scott Hamilton disc?

[Jim Alfredson]

He has been a sideman on a lot of dates playing organ. I cannot think of any off the top of my head...

[Soul Stream]

I've seen Mike LeDonne play quite a bit. He holds down the organ night at Smoke in NYC. He's a burner on the organ. I've actually never seen/heard him play piano myself! As far as jazz organ at Smoke is concerned (which is basically the whole organ scene in NYC sans the Harlem thing) he's the go-to guy.

This CD gives you a REAL good idea of a typical organ night at Smoke. These are the type of songs they play. It's a great CD with guys who are the A list Smoke NYC organ guys...Eric Alexander, Jim R., Farnsworth, Bernstein. They play together a lot and it shows.

Of course Harlem is another story. Great organ stuff happening there too, but not with these guys...Bobby Forrester ruled there 'til his passing.

[Bill Fenohr]

I know we all have different tastes, but as organ dates go i find this to be pretty average. I listened to the disc last night and was underwhelmed with alot of it. So to be fair i listened to it again today. Same response.

A couple of the things that put me off. On One For Don Mike plays a string of Patterson cripples on his solo, and lets face it he's no Don Patterson. The solo sounds like a young kid trying to emulate what he just heard on a record. On They Long To Be With You, lifting the vamp from Earlands More Today Then Yesterday is just bullshit IMO. If you want to play something like that, come up with your own vamp.

Overall i just dont hear much inspiration here.Just four good players going through the motions on most of this. Pisces Soul moves along pretty nice as does You'll See.

So have at me guys,i can take it.

[Jim Alfredson]

Hm... sounds a little like Joey DeFrancesco's tribute to Don Patterson, "The Philadelphia Connection". There's nothing wrong with it and it swings like crazy... but after listening to him cover Patterson tunes, I just wanted to hear Patterson, not Joey D.

[Soul Stream]

"They Long To Be Close To You" was cut in the same fashion by Leon Spencer Jr. on "Louisiana Slim" back in the day. After Groove's "Misty" and Earland's "More Tody Than Yesterday," a lot of organists did this sort of thing (Also check out Freddie Roach's groove version of "Tenderly" on Prestige!). No doubt about LeDonne's lack of original approach. However, that said, I don't think he's pretending to be anything other than someone who's carrying the torch. All those guys are imitators to a large....Eric Alexander (George Coleman), Bernstein (G. Green), LeDonne (Patterson, Earland, ect). But, these guys can PLAY! And Swing! Nothing wrong with that.

Maybe on record it's nothing that's going to make you take off your "Black Talk" CD (I wouldn't!), but live...it's nice to see and hear. O.K., LeDonne's no John Patton, Don Patterson, Charles Earland or Larry Young...but those guys are DEAD!!!! This music should be heard live and Mike's doing a great job continuing the tradition. Matter of fact, he's one of the best in the business imo.

Todays organists will never match the original 1st-3rd generations of organists. However, there's still some great music being played today on the street. That's what the Smoke guys are doing.

[Soul Stream]

A couple of the things that put me off. On One For Don Mike plays a string of Patterson cripples on his solo, and lets face it he's no Don Patterson. The solo sounds like a young kid trying to emulate what he just heard on a record.

Boy, I didn't get that feel at all. First off, "One For Don" is a thinly disguised version of Don Patterson's "Wade In The Water. Anyway, once LeDonne starts soloing, I don't here a whole lot of Patterson in the mix sans a few of Don's trademarked fast single-note bop runs. Past that, I hear a lot of Larry Young-influence along with some whole tone stuff. That in a nutshell is Mike's style....a mixture of Young, Patterson, Earland and Smith. Those are the influenced I hear in the solo. He mixes and makes a go of it on his own to my ears. Nice solo.

[Bill Fenohr]

Soul Stream

I guess we are going to have to agree to somewhat disagree on this one. Where i agree with you is that this group should be heard live. Im sure i would love them live. As i said before all of these guys are wonderful players, but for me it just does not happen on the majority of this date.

I do disagree with you on Mikes solo on One For Don. I own every record that Patterson ever made,both as a leader and a sideman and also saw him in person a number of times back in the day and all i hear in Mikes solo on that tune is a string of Don's licks not played very well. I like the line of the tune. It reminds me of some of the things Don recorded with Booker Ervin.

As far as the other guys you mention using a vamp taken from someone else, i thought it was bullshit back then and i still do. I dont mind it so much in a club setting, but not on a recording.

In the end thats what makes jazz great, we all hear it somewhat different.

[Dan Gould]

Isn't it possible that borrowing the vamp was tribute, not uninspired thievery?

[Soul Stream]

Bill,

I really don't want to get in the position of "defending" Mike LeDonne or this CD. In truth, I've listened to this CD a couple of times and found myself (as is usually the case) putting on a Don Patterson session instead, why not go to the source as Jim mentioned.

Like yourself, I have all the Patterson sessions. There's no doubt LeDonne is coming out of the Patterson bag on that tune, hence "One For Don." However, "stringing together a bunch of Patterson licks" is simplifying what he's doing a little too much for me. Also, that he's doing it badly is something I would take issue to. He lands on a few Patterson "tricks" (@5:40 for example) a little too long...but hey, Don did too! As an organist myself I can say this...what Mike's doing ain't easy. It shows a command of the instrument and an ability to speak the language. Nothing about what he's doing sounds amateurish or "like a kid" to me.

I guess my next question Bill is how you would rate Joey DeFrancesco? He's about as much of a Jimmy Smith clone as could be manufactured. However, he's widely considered one of the best organists in the world today. Some create, and some re-create imho. But like Frank Morgan once said when asked about being a Charlie Parker copycat...."You think it's EASY playing like Charlie Parker!"

O.K., that's about as much as I want to defend anyone but myself. In my mind there are a lot of organists out there and LeDonne wouldn't be on top of the heap in NYC if he wasn't very, very good.

Funny part is, I'm not a huge LeDonne fan my any means. But I do have a lot of respect for what he can do.

[Bill Fenohr]

Soul Stream,

Like i said, we will have to disagree on that tune.

In answer to your other queston, i have not bought a Joey side in years for the reason you state. Ive heard Jimmy do all of that stuff. On the other hand a couple years ago i was driving back to Lansing from Chicago and a PBS station played a tape of a set that was done at one of the many summer jazz festavals in in France. The group was Joey, guitarist Bella Leguri(sp?) and Elvin Jones. They blew me away. Joey did not play his stock Jimmy licks at all. I dont know if it was the effect Elvin had on players or what, but Joey really burned on that set.

I guess my point is that i know these guys are very good players, but they don't get it every time out.

[Soul Stream]

I guess my point is that i know these guys are very good players, but they don't get it every time out.

Agreed!

O.K...now you can tell us about seeing Don Patterson live!!!!

[Jim Alfredson]

Joey is always better when it's not his date, in other words when he's a sideman. He plays his nuts off on that John McLaughlin date, for instance. Of course the common denominator between that record and the tape Bill heard is Elvin Jones. Maybe that was the catalyst.

[Bill Fenohr]

Soul Stream,

I caught Don in Detroit a few times when he was with Stitt back in the 60"s and i think a couple of times in Chicago. Once i think he was just doing a duo with Billy James. At the time i had kind of burned out on Jimmy and with those bop lines Don was playing, i thought he was about the baddest cat i had ever heard on the instrument.

Depending on the night, Sonny would sometimes take a short solo and just kind of wonder off the stand. Don would just stretch out until Stitt returned and they would take it out or trade fours with Billy. I think the first time i saw them Weeden was with them on guitar, after that it was just the three of them. Anyway Don always played great and if Stitt felt like really playing, it was magic.

[Soul Stream]

That sounds great Bill. Man, I would have loved to have seen that! Thanks for the story....