Viva Prog Rock

[7/4]

To Know Him Is To Love Him is the interesting tune...I'm not a fan of the Wall.

[Guest Wallace]

To Know Him Is To Love Him is the interesting tune...I'm not a fan of the Wall.

Damn right!

"The Wall" is an atrocity.

One and a half lps worth of narration, drone & pure filler; half lp worth of anything remotely compositionally-decent.

The only thing worse than this is one of their cack lps that followed it - "Direct Cut" I think the lp was called??? That "Floyd" lp is typical Waters' verbosity and WHINE.

[Aggie87]

"The Wall" is an atrocity.

One and a half lps worth of narration, drone & pure filler; half lp worth of anything remotely compositionally-decent.

The only thing worse than this is one of their cack lps that followed it - "Direct Cut" I think the lp was called??? That "Floyd" lp is typical Waters' verbosity and WHINE.

I think that's a little extreme. The Wall isn't their best album, but it ain't bad. Definitely some filler, but I'd rather listen to PF filler than alot of other band's best stuff.

Also, the subsequent album is called "The Final Cut". It is essentially a Waters solo album, with minor input from Gilmour/Mason (Wright was out of the band at that point).

I'm more of a Gilmour fan than a Waters fan, but I think in their prime together before things got out of balance, they were a great combination.

[Guest Wallace]

I offer up this proof that "The Wall" is substandard pop cwap:

It was only with "The Wall" and subsequent output that females started to perk-up ears to the music.

[Aggie87]

I offer up this proof that "The Wall" is substandard pop cwap:

It was only with "The Wall" and subsequent output that females started to perk-up ears to the music.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you saying The Wall generated female fans for PF? You make it sound like it's bad for females to like music that males like?

And I'd suggest that the reason The Wall generated new fans (regardless of gender) is because of the radio hits. That these fans weren't fans since Piper doesn't have any bearing on The Wall itself.

It's not my favorite PF album either way (and Final Cut is probably my least favorite PF album, for the record), but it's certainly not substandard pop "cwap".

[Guest Wallace]

Its prog-LITE with dark lyrics.

Besides concept, it has little to do with prog. More of a poprock opera.

[Aggie87]

Its prog-LITE with dark lyrics.

Besides concept, it has little to do with prog. More of a poprock opera.

Prog, not prog, I guess it really doesn't matter. It's Pink Floyd, however you want to label it. How good is it? YMMV.

I can accept it being called a poprock opera; that's alot more accurate than substandard pop cwap or an atrocity.

[Guest Wallace]

The golden period of poprock was '67-'69 British popsike. I just wallow in that delightful whimsey.

Compared to THAT all pop/poprock before and since IS cwap.

Cant hold up a candle.

[7/4]

I know I didn't like it as much as their older albums, the hit's were OK. But I got tired of the hits over the years.

I think it's much slicker & polished than the previous albums...don't really care about the labels.

[Guest Wallace]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jul/22/prog-rock-genesis-rush-mostly-autumn

Other than listing a load of ho-hum, seminal-prog bands (Mars Volta,Porkupine Tree,Opeth...), overall pretty good article on prog in today's paper.

[Shawn]

You are getting really fucking annoying, really quick. Are you 14?

[Guest Wallace]

Please explain your attitude.

[Aggie87]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jul/22/prog-rock-genesis-rush-mostly-autumn

Other than listing a load of ho-hum, seminal-prog bands (Mars Volta,Porkupine Tree,Opeth...), overall pretty good article on prog in today's paper.

How can a band be both "ho-hum" and "seminal"?

[Jim Alfredson]

From a pure production standpoint, The Wall is pretty amazing actually. The sonics alone, the density of the music, the layers, how everything flows together... perhaps not radical anymore for the time, but expertly realized, imo. Of course, I lived and breathed that album in middle school. That seems to be the Pink Floyd years for lots of folks.

And believe it or not, but I actually liked The Final Cut. I also dug Waters' solo records, which is what The Final cut is really. But again, that was back when I was a wee teen.

[Shawn]

I also like The Final Cut. The tone of the album fit early teen angst perfectly. I don't consider it a Pink Floyd album, but Gilmour does take a few face melting solos, especially on the title track.

My favorite era of Floyd runs from Meddle to Animals, The Wall and The Final Cut were important records to me when I was younger, but there are too many bad memories tied up in those songs for me to revisit often.

[A Lark Ascending]

'Atom Heart Mother' and 'Meddle' were the current releases that still define what I like best about PF - I also had 'Relics' (which I loved) and 'Umma Gumma' (great live album, strange studio album that kept you curious but went on a bit in places) but they were already old music by that time. Although I liked 'Dark Side' when it came out there was just a sense that they'd scaled back; I think the musical snob in me reacted against their massive popularity from '73 and I stopped listening.

Got to enjoy the first two albums much, much later (though I've never bought into the Syd Barrett idolatry) and 'Wish You Were Here'. In fact I think I like WYWH as much as AHM and Meddle - a return to nice, long slow-burn tracks. I've still never heard 'Animals' or 'The Wall'.

Whatever happened to the album they intended to record on kitchen implements? The abandonment of that project and then the massive success of the more conventional 'Dark Side' could be seen as an indicator of the general scaling back of musical ambition in the mid-70s (some might say 'greater realism'). Ironic, given the counter-culture/alienation/anti-corporate nature of the lyrics.

[Shawn]

Obscured By Clouds usually gets left out of these Floyd discussions, but it's the forgotten missing link between Meddle & Dark Side. The song "Childhood's End" is a good pre-cursor to the sound of Dark Side.

Bev made a good point about Meddle & Wish You Were Here, there is similar vibe to those records.

[A Lark Ascending]

Obscured By Clouds usually gets left out of these Floyd discussions, but it's the forgotten missing link between Meddle & Dark Side. The song "Childhood's End" is a good pre-cursor to the sound of Dark Side.

I always forget that one. I recall being disappointed by it when it came out - seemed a bit insubstantial (not surprising as it was soundtrack music). When you are 17 with very limited resources, every track has to count on an LP, because it's going to be another month before you can afford another!

I like it more now - inhabits that dreamy Floyd world of the start of the 70s.

[i'm almost sure it was cheaper than the standard album in '72; as if they were wanting to indicate that it was not part of the major sequence)

Edited July 23, 2010 by Bev Stapleton

[7/4]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/jul/22/prog-rock-genesis-rush-mostly-autumn

Other than listing a load of ho-hum, seminal-prog bands (Mars Volta,Porkupine Tree,Opeth...), overall pretty good article on prog in today's paper.

How can a band be both "ho-hum" and "seminal"?

oh come on...there's plenty of ho-hum bands that are seminal.

[Guest Wallace]

Seminal as in "borderline" and "undeveloped".

In that article, in pointing out newer bands the fellow should have picked better examples referencing prog. Its not as if there is a dearth of good "newer" prog bands.

Yes, I am a stickler, but metal-prog just isnt prog.

As to Porkupine Tree, truth to tell ,Im only familiar with their first 3 or 4 cds. And those are more towards fusion than prog.

I ASSUME later on they go the usual way and become more AORish or spacey/newage-filler-ish.) On the early cds they ARE an instrumentally-competent band, but (as,for instance, I view the band Ozric Tentacles as well) their output is very SAMEY - not just from cd to cd, but -much worse - within the single cd as well.

So many of these new bands think over-much of themselves and feel obliged to fill at least 60minutes worth of the alloted space on the cd, when, compositionally they can barely retain many a listener's interest for 40 minutes worth.

Its very difficult to make a long epic which merits the making. That's why so many double lp concept sets - like the Wall - quickly fail. They simply become too tiring to take in on one listen. Think of how many 2 lp concepts actually work. Not many - "Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" does, "Tommy" certainly does, and ,yes, although I seem to be in the vast minority (even amongst progheads) the much maligned "Tales from Topographic Ocerans" works.)

Whatever happened to the album they intended to record on kitchen implements?

You mean the lp "Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast"?

[Guest Wallace]

About "Obscured By Clouds": for years I was disappointed with this lp since all of side two doesnt sound proggy at all.

But then side two slowly grew on me and now I consider those 4 tracks as being amongst their very best material.

I go back to it rather often.

[Aggie87]

I've still never heard 'Animals' or 'The Wall'.

Check out 'Animals', Bev. I think you'd enjoy it quite a bit actually.

As to Porkupine Tree, truth to tell ,Im only familiar with their first 3 or 4 cds. And those are more towards fusion than prog.

I ASSUME later on they go the usual way and become more AORish or spacey/newage-filler-ish.) On the early cds they ARE an instrumentally-competent band, but (as,for instance, I view the band Ozric Tentacles as well) their output is very SAMEY

I don’t think any of PT’s albums are fusion, new age, or filler-ish.

Perhaps you should listen to Porcupine Tree’s music before pronouncing judgment about them being “samey”.

[Guest Wallace]

By newagey/filler-ish, basically I mean ambient. "Ephermal soundscapes" -to quote a review.

Also Porcupine Tree is full of repetative rhythms -a flaw you can tar most newer spacerock bands with.

Sure one of the grandfathers of spacemusic -Schulze also is repetative as all hell, but somehow I never tire of his music.

Speaking of pioneers - bet no one hear can think of what band could easily be the father of spacerock. They released 3 lps in '68, I believe.

[Shawn]

Yes, I am POMPOUS, but metal-prog just isnt prog.

Fixed that for ya.

Reading your description of Porcupine Tree (without actually listening to them) at least provided me with a good laugh this morning.

[Guest Wallace]

Reading your description of Porcupine Tree (without actually listening to them) at least provided me with a good laugh this morning.

Maybe YOU are pompous in that you have not asked me: "okay,you these bands lower scale. Exactly WHICH spacerock bands do you rate higher?"

You dont really want to know, do you?

Thats the whole problem here.

.............

From my collection, I am listening now to Porcupine Tree "Sky Moves Sideways".

This is clearly in their moody , slow-burning atmospherics period - as were the cds "Up The Downstairs" & Signify". Lots of fill.

Another (less-endearing) period of Porcupine Tree is the SONG-BASED one of which (apparently - since Ive not heard it) "Stupid Dream" cd is an example. Poppish decline.

Its when prog bands go song-based when the slippery slope is at its most acute angle. A ton of legendary prog giants unfortunately proved this later in their career - ELP, Gentle Giant...

]

Edited July 23, 2010 by Wallace