Jazz Test Pressings

[AllenLowe]

well, I'm not completely crazy - here's from Wikipedia:

"Before the advent of formats other than vinyl records, a type of promo surfaced known as an "acetate". These records were made of a cheaper and lower quality acetate vinyl. They were generally made in very low quantity and often had hand-written labels. Frequently they were only a test pressing, and thus were called "promo acetate test pressings""

[Christiern]

An acetate cannot be a "pressing". Wikipedia is full of crap like that. And what the hell is "acetate vinyl"???

[AllenLowe]

you got me - but they are records made of acetate. Maybe they pressed them if they were wrinkled - which would explain why they play so badly -

[AllenLowe]

eureka - here's more: from: http://www.madonnacatalog.com/guides/acetate.htm

WHAT IS AN "ACETATE"??

An acetate disc is cut prior to the cutting of the master disc which is used for mass production of records. Even though referred to as an "acetate", it is essentially an aluminium disc coated with a fine film of nitro-celluolose lacquer with no acetate in it at all! I can tell you right off the bat that they're nothing special to look at. They do not come in a frame. There is NO picture sleeve, and no special artwork on the record labels. Most acetates are 10" round, but the actual music record grooves are usually 7" in diameter. A 7" single is usually cut on a 10" disc, a 12" single or LP is cut onto a 12" disc. They're almost always single-sided (the other side is totally blank and shiny, with no grooves and no label).

This is used as a reference disc allowing the producer, engineer, artist and other interested parties to see how well the recording transfers to disc. Trying to tranfser some recordings to disc is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and so the cutting engineer must make some adjustments to the sound so that song on the tape fits within the confines of a record groove. This may include adjusting the overall level (volume), adjusting bass/treble, compressing the overall signal, etc so that the record sounds as good as possible when played on a variety of hi-fi systems. For example, if a song is excessively long, the cutting engineer will have to reduce the overall level of the disc. When such changes are necessary, the reference disc (or "acetate") allows the producer to check and approve these changes before the master disc is cut and sent off to the pressing plant where thousands of copies are pressed.

Once everyone is happy with the reference cut, the engineer will cut the MASTER LACQUER disc with the same changes and send it off to the pressing plant for mass production.

The lacquer coating on the disc is very soft and so the sound quality will deteriorate the more you play it. At first, the high frequencies will diminish and an increase of surface noise will be evident. If you thought records scratch and wear out easily, a lacquer disc is worse!

Reference cuts will usually appear as 10" discs with a 7"single cut onto them, or a 12" disc with either a 7" or a 12" cut. Reference discs will often have a second hole near the centre hole. This is to identify them as reference cuts and not master lacquers for production use.

So if you have an "acetate", you have a disc that was theoretically cut for the producer, engineer and artist to listen to. On the other hand, anyone with a disc cutting lathe can cut such a disc and pass it off as a real one".

To make sure that the disc-masterer will make a disc-transfer acceptable to you and you engineer and/or producer, you should request that reference lacquers, or "acetates", be cut before your master lacquers are cut, which would be used for pressing your records. Listen to your reference lacquers with your recording engineer or producer, who can best judge how they compare with your master tape. The lacquers should not be overplayed as they are very fragile and are only good for five or six listenings before noticeable sound deterioration. You will need to save a few plays for the pressing stage, in order to verify the quality of your test pressings. Lacquers should be checked for the following problems before you go to the trouble of making the final cut:

1. Low overall volume compared to other records 2. variations in volume levels within the songs or from cut to cut 3. variations of tempo within each song 4. breaking up or distortion in the treble or high registers at peak loudness levels or towards the end of a side 5. excessive boominess or airiness in the bass or low registers 6. dullness or lack of presence in the mid-range 7. skips, buzzes, crackling noises, or dull thuds at the beginnings of notes. Your engineer and/or producer will probably listen to the reference lacquers on both large and small speakers (like those used in car stereos) to be sure that there is adequate treble and bass response.

Once you've approved the reference lacquers (you don't send them back), the disc-masterer will then cut the master lacquers using settings identical to those used when cutting the reference lacquers. If the engineer has only minor changes to request, he or she probably won't ask for additional reference lacquers."

On many acetates, such as the one in this photo, You'll usually notice yellow (or red) "cue marks" on the record, which basically just look like a crayon line (or arrow) hand-drawn on the acetate, to indicate the beginning and end of the music. There are sometimes two holes in the center of the record (one is perfectly centered, and the other is off-center); the second hole is to let you know that these discs are not designed for use as master lacquers for record manufacturing.

When you physically handle an acetate, you'll notice that it's extremely stiff. Depending on whether the acetate is a "metal" plate or made from some other material, you'll notice that it is not nearly as "flexible" as a standard record. Acetates are not made from a variety of material. They are only made of: aluminum disc with a thin coating of nitro-cellulose lacquer. Most times, you'll even notice that the acetate smells kinda funny, almost like that "moldey, library kinda smell" - this is because they've usually been sitting around for years in storage, or in the record company's archives. The origial mustard-colored paper sleeves are usually what gives the acetates their funny smell.

I guess the best way to explain it would be like this: having an acetate for a song is almost like having the "negatives" for a photo. You can actually play an acetate if you really want to, but they weren't designed to be played on a standard record player, so sometimes they may not sound that great. The reason you cut an acetate refence disc is so that you CAN play it on a standard record player! That's why they were used for reference purposes. If it doesn't sound great it's because it has been played to death and the soft lacquer wears very fast. They sound GREAT when you are the first person to play it. Acetates are extremely rare, and in some cases, are one-of-a-kind.

Edited January 28, 2009 by AllenLowe

[michel1969]

This thread is why i love Organissimo Jazz Forum : just a little question... and in two hours later, 2 pages of knowledgeable answers and discussion... (by the way, what was the initial question ? )

Edited January 28, 2009 by Michel

[Christiern]

eureka - here's more: from: http://www.madonnacatalog.com/guides/acetate.htm

WHAT IS AN "ACETATE"??

An acetate disc is cut prior to the cutting of the master disc which is used for mass production of records. Even though referred to as an "acetate", it is essentially an aluminium disc coated with a fine film of nitro-celluolose lacquer with no acetate in it at all!

During WWII, the aluminum base was replaced by glass.

I can tell you right off the bat that they're nothing special to look at. They do not come in a frame. There is NO picture sleeve, and no special artwork on the record labels. Most acetates are 10" round, but the actual music record grooves are usually 7" in diameter. A 7" single is usually cut on a 10" disc, a 12" single or LP is cut onto a 12" disc. They're almost always single-sided (the other side is totally blank and shiny, with no grooves and no label).

Acetate discs are often cut on both sides and they are also often 16" in diameter.

This is used as a reference disc allowing the producer, engineer, artist and other interested parties to see how well the recording transfers to disc. Trying to tranfser some recordings to disc is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and so the cutting engineer must make some adjustments to the sound so that song on the tape fits within the confines of a record groove. This may include adjusting the overall level (volume), adjusting bass/treble, compressing the overall signal, etc so that the record sounds as good as possible when played on a variety of hi-fi systems. For example, if a song is excessively long, the cutting engineer will have to reduce the overall level of the disc. When such changes are necessary, the reference disc (or "acetate") allows the producer to check and approve these changes before the master disc is cut and sent off to the pressing plant where thousands of copies are pressed.

This is essentially blather—not total fabrication, but reminiscent of Professor Irwin Corey. Acetate discs replaced the wax-like ones in the interim period that preceded the advent of tape. Sessions were recorded directly onto acetate discs and it had nothing to do with determining

"how well the recording transfers to disc."

. When running time became a problem, a variable groove technque was sometimes employed.

Once everyone is happy with the reference cut, the engineer will cut the MASTER LACQUER disc with the same changes and send it off to the pressing plant for mass production.

The lacquer coating on the disc is very soft and so the sound quality will deteriorate the more you play it. At first, the high frequencies will diminish and an increase of surface noise will be evident. If you thought records scratch and wear out easily, a lacquer disc is worse!

Reference cuts will usually appear as 10" discs with a 7"single cut onto them, or a 12" disc with either a 7" or a 12" cut. Reference discs will often have a second hole near the centre hole. This is to identify them as reference cuts and not master lacquers for production use.

The second hole is solely there to prevent the disc from slipping on the cutting lathe. This guy is full of presumption-based nonsense.

So if you have an "acetate", you have a disc that was theoretically cut for the producer, engineer and artist to listen to. On the other hand, anyone with a disc cutting lathe can cut such a disc and pass it off as a real one".

"Theoretically"? Well, that's this guy's problem, he theorizes to much.

The rest of this paste is both redundant and factually skewed. This is an excellent example of why the internet cannot blindly be relied upon for facts.

To make sure that the disc-masterer will make a disc-transfer acceptable to you and you engineer and/or producer, you should request that reference lacquers, or "acetates", be cut before your master lacquers are cut, which would be used for pressing your records. Listen to your reference lacquers with your recording engineer or producer, who can best judge how they compare with your master tape. The lacquers should not be overplayed as they are very fragile and are only good for five or six listenings before noticeable sound deterioration. You will need to save a few plays for the pressing stage, in order to verify the quality of your test pressings. Lacquers should be checked for the following problems before you go to the trouble of making the final cut:

1. Low overall volume compared to other records 2. variations in volume levels within the songs or from cut to cut 3. variations of tempo within each song 4. breaking up or distortion in the treble or high registers at peak loudness levels or towards the end of a side 5. excessive boominess or airiness in the bass or low registers 6. dullness or lack of presence in the mid-range 7. skips, buzzes, crackling noises, or dull thuds at the beginnings of notes. Your engineer and/or producer will probably listen to the reference lacquers on both large and small speakers (like those used in car stereos) to be sure that there is adequate treble and bass response.

Once you've approved the reference lacquers (you don't send them back), the disc-masterer will then cut the master lacquers using settings identical to those used when cutting the reference lacquers. If the engineer has only minor changes to request, he or she probably won't ask for additional reference lacquers."

On many acetates, such as the one in this photo, You'll usually notice yellow (or red) "cue marks" on the record, which basically just look like a crayon line (or arrow) hand-drawn on the acetate, to indicate the beginning and end of the music. There are sometimes two holes in the center of the record (one is perfectly centered, and the other is off-center); the second hole is to let you know that these discs are not designed for use as master lacquers for record manufacturing.

When you physically handle an acetate, you'll notice that it's extremely stiff. Depending on whether the acetate is a "metal" plate or made from some other material, you'll notice that it is not nearly as "flexible" as a standard record. Acetates are not made from a variety of material. They are only made of: aluminum disc with a thin coating of nitro-cellulose lacquer. Most times, you'll even notice that the acetate smells kinda funny, almost like that "moldey, library kinda smell" - this is because they've usually been sitting around for years in storage, or in the record company's archives. The origial mustard-colored paper sleeves are usually what gives the acetates their funny smell.

I guess the best way to explain it would be like this: having an acetate for a song is almost like having the "negatives" for a photo. You can actually play an acetate if you really want to, but they weren't designed to be played on a standard record player, so sometimes they may not sound that great. The reason you cut an acetate refence disc is so that you CAN play it on a standard record player! That's why they were used for reference purposes. If it doesn't sound great it's because it has been played to death and the soft lacquer wears very fast. They sound GREAT when you are the first person to play it. Acetates are extremely rare, and in some cases, are one-of-a-kind.

[Christiern]

And let us not forget that acetate discs were in common use at radio stations. Even in 1959/60 (well into the tape era), when I was producing programs at WCAU (Philly), we used acetates whenever we needed sound bites in our productions

[AllenLowe]

Chris - I am confused - are you saying that acetates were not used for test pressings?

[AllenLowe]

and are you questioning the internet?

and for you collectors out there, here's more on Jack Towers (whom I guess has found a new profession; I wish him well in his latest endeavor):

Jack's Towers Barber Shop

892 Main St, Melrose, MA 02176-2346

Contact Phone:(781) 665-9847 URL (web address):Business Category:Barber Shop in Melrose, MAIndustry (SIC):Barber Shopswindow.google_render_ad();Ads by Google

Local Barber Shops Find Barbers & Hair Stylist Listings at YellowPages.com ®

Barber Shop Equipment Chairs, Tables, Supplies & More. Furnish Your Barbers. Order Online.

BARBER SCHOOLS Free education guide. Match schools by Cosmetology programs.

The ads are not affiliated with Jack's Towers Barber Shop

Business Information

This company profile is for the private company Jack's Towers Barber Shop , located in Melrose, MA. Jack's Towers Barber Shop's line of business is barber shop.

[AllenLowe]

I still love the internet - and I thought Satchmo was dead! apprently not:from a Chicago web site:

LEWIS ARMSTRONG

Summary: On May 1, 2008, LEWIS ARMSTRONG was issued a business license of type "Street performer."

[Christiern]

Allen Lowe (e-dropping heir to the Loews Theatres fortune): "Chris - I am confused - are you saying that acetates were not used for test pressings?"

No, but only by Jack Towers, and only for pressing hair, and then only when that hair was an acetate wig. Jack was a complex man.

[JohnS]

Just came across this UK RCA test pressing in my collection. It might be of interest.

Edited March 4, 2009 by JohnS

[jazztrain]

Looks like a test of the UK versio of the Victor Vintage series collection called "The Be Bop Era." Here's a link to the cover:

http://www.parisjazzcorner.com/en/dis_fich...8&LANGUE=uk

Just came across this UK RCA test pressing in my collection. It might be of interest.

[JohnS]

Looks like a test of the UK versio of the Victor Vintage series collection called "The Be Bop Era." Here's a link to the cover:

http://www.parisjazzcorner.com/en/dis_fich...8&LANGUE=uk

Just came across this UK RCA test pressing in my collection. It might be of interest.

That's right. Mine has the finished cover. Many test pressings just came with an inner.

[jazztrain]

Didn't realize you had the cover. No matter. Slow day at work...

Looks like a test of the UK versio of the Victor Vintage series collection called "The Be Bop Era." Here's a link to the cover:

http://www.parisjazzcorner.com/en/dis_fich...8&LANGUE=uk

Just came across this UK RCA test pressing in my collection. It might be of interest.

That's right. Mine has the finished cover. Many test pressings just came with an inner.

[mtodde]

I've done a couple of comparison of test pressings versus the audiophile reissue with titles from APO and Speakers Corner. The test pressings are as close to the mother as you can get and play like it. I don't have my Aries 3/Shelter set up any more but the difference was very noticeable on it. At least with Speakers Corner you get the liner notes & track listing. APO doesn't give you anything.

For most music lovers I'd say test pressings are a nice novelty if you've got some extra money. Generally they should sound better since they are so close to the mother although with smaller labels your mileage may vary. I quite trying to collect years ago...listening is so much more fun for me.