Jim R Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 (edited) If a set of lyrics *just* covers the head, it's not vocalese by any definition I have learned Mike, I think you misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about sets of lyrics that cover ONLY the head. I'm talking about the many examples of "vocalese performances" where both the head AND the solos are lyricized jointly. The example I used was "Four"- a complete set of lyrics for both the head and the solos. I was simply trying to make the point that the type of lyric writing that Hendricks does for the heads is still very artistic (moreso than the typical type of lyric writing that has been done for centuries), and using a definition of vocalese that ignores that seems odd to me. Your earlier statement: And strictly speaking, vocalese is the setting of lyrics to the *solos* not the melodies ) completely ignores the efforts that are made for writing the lyricized heads. When I look at the page you referred to, I see (under "The Swingers", of course): "Four" - Hendricks vocalese." So, if some layperson looks at that under the assumption that "vocalese" only involves lyrics having been set to the solos, one might assume that the head is instrumental. "Four" may not even be a very good example of my point. Think of the lyricized head for something like "Move", for example. Lyricizing a head like that may be easier in some ways than writing lyrics to solos and getting all the phrasing and inflections just right, but I don't think it would qualify as "normal" lyric writing. At any rate, I'm just following through on my own feelings here. If Jon Hendricks makes the distinction one way, then that's certainly good enough for me. Perhaps he's not giving himself enough credit for those lyricized heads, though... Edited August 19, 2003 by Jim R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Just because it's not "vocalese" doesn't mean it's not artistic. Absolutely, having the possibility of extending the lyrics through a full-length performance (head & solos) presents a great opportunity, much more than just one or just the other. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Wasn´t Lester Young who said "to play a song you should know the lyrics"? BTW: I like vocalese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmorin Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 I really dig Jon Hendrick's vocalese version of Freddie Freeloader, were he sings Coltrane's part, Bobby McFerrin sings Wynton Kelly's part, Al Jarreau sings Miles Davis' part, and George Benson sings Cannonball Adderley's part. Very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 One of my favourite Carmen McRae collections is "Carmen McRae Sings Monk". Although I love Monk's music without any lyrics at all McRae adds something to his compositions which is wonderful, I think. Usually I don't like lyrics being added to jazz unless it was originally planned that way, but this, IMO, is one of the exceptions. Vocalese, again IMO, is not the same as singing words, in the conventional sense. The voices are additional instruments and, as such, add something to the whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Not vocalese, but didn't Hendrick's write lyrics to "GoodBye Pork Pie Hat"? From what I can recall at the moment they are rather poignant. "....Lester is playing what he's feeling" P.S. Seems to me that there were two different sets of lyrics written for this tune. Does any one know who wrote the other version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 (edited) One of my favourite Carmen McRae collections is "Carmen McRae Sings Monk" Tight band on this disc. The rhythm section just kills! Edited September 18, 2003 by Sundog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 The lyrics you are thinking of are by Roland Kirk, recorded on his Warner Bros. album "Return of the 5000 Lb. Man." The other set (incl. vocalese setting from Mingus Ah Um version) is by Joni Mitchell, recorded on "Mingus." Not sure if there is a third set as recorded by Ben Sidran. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 The lyrics you are thinking of are by Roland Kirk, recorded on his Warner Bros. album "Return of the 5000 Lb. Man." Thanks Mike, I've been thinking about buying this album for a while. This might put me over the edge. Also, recently I heard an interesting version of "Sweet Georgia Brown" from this album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEK Posted September 19, 2003 Report Share Posted September 19, 2003 Re. writing lyrics for songs (not vocalese): anyone heard Susanne Abbuehl? For her ECM debut "April" she wrote lyrics to some Carla Bley compositions (and music to some e.e.cummings poems). A very beautiful, very slow and moody album. I also saw her life once. She started out solo, in a quite big hall. She's got a presence that really grabs you. Somehow she succeeds in keeping up suspense without doing anything fast. And her band (clarinet/bass clarinet, piano/harmonium, drums/percussion) does the soloing in pretty the same fashion - not minimalistic at all, but much textures and colours. Beautiful stuff, highly recommended! ubu The Abbuehl CD came to me in the mail the other day. I'm enjoying it very much. I agree with ubu (Beautiful stuff, highly recommended!). "April" is a wonderful alternative/addition to the usual type of "jazz vocal" release. I most often prefer instrumental versions of standards, and I feel that most new vocal versions of songs from what's sometimes referred to as "The Great American Songbook" have been done better long ago by Billie, Sarah, Carmen, etc. When lyrics are added to jazz tunes, it can be interesting, but usually confines or conflicts with my interpretations of the music. But that's not a problem for me; good, expressive music tends to override any inadequate lyrics that may be imposed on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 "It's No Time To Be Blue" on Kenny Burrell's latest album, Blue Muse, is "Blue Bossa" with lyrics added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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