Red Allen, Calloway, Dodds, Lunceford & Ory Boxes

[AllenLowe]

I don't know that musical well enough - just as an FYI, Citizen Kafka, one of the curators of the Secret Museum series, lives out your way in Brooklyn, possibly Brooklyn Heights (I think) - I've lost touch with him, but he's an interesting guy, though he was quite ill last time I spoke to him -

[Fer Urbina]

Thanks Clem, but I'd already sprung for it. The stuff is so cheap though, I couldn't resist. And it's so cheap that, if I decide I want to look more/better into any of these guys, I shan't mind ditching these CDs or simply filing them in the garage.

MG

Oops, sorry to be late for this, MG, but I seem to remember that the sound in the Lunceford set was really bad.

F

[Harold_Z]

Oops, sorry to be late for this, MG, but I seem to remember that the sound in the Lunceford set was really bad.

F

See..that's the unknown that bothered me about these sets. If they sound bad DITCH 'EM quick. Don't even listen. Bad sound can sour you on somthing. I had the Louis Hot Fives on those good Columbia lps, but bought the first set of cds that Columbia put out and they were SO rotten that I couldn't listen to them. . I taped the lps and then obtained the complete bunch on French Columbia and that's what I listened too until the JSPs and latest Sony box came out.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Oops, sorry to be late for this, MG, but I seem to remember that the sound in the Lunceford set was really bad.

F

See..that's the unknown that bothered me about these sets. If they sound bad DITCH 'EM quick. Don't even listen. Bad sound can sour you on somthing. I had the Louis Hot Fives on those good Columbia lps, but bought the first set of cds that Columbia put out and they were SO rotten that I couldn't listen to them. . I taped the lps and then obtained the complete bunch on French Columbia and that's what I listened too until the JSPs and latest Sony box came out.

Well, we'll have to see. But I had to buy very second hand LPs in the '60s, partly because the stuff was so hard to come by - but also, y'know I really didn't mind listening to LPs like "Sit down and relax with Jimmy Forrest" or "Hip Twist" that looked and sounded as if they'd been heavily partied over. I passed up several opportunities to buy better copies and put up with my scratched to fuck copies for decades.

MG

[Harold_Z]

Oops, sorry to be late for this, MG, but I seem to remember that the sound in the Lunceford set was really bad.

F

See..that's the unknown that bothered me about these sets. If they sound bad DITCH 'EM quick. Don't even listen. Bad sound can sour you on somthing. I had the Louis Hot Fives on those good Columbia lps, but bought the first set of cds that Columbia put out and they were SO rotten that I couldn't listen to them. . I taped the lps and then obtained the complete bunch on French Columbia and that's what I listened too until the JSPs and latest Sony box came out.

Well, we'll have to see. But I had to buy very second hand LPs in the '60s, partly because the stuff was so hard to come by - but also, y'know I really didn't mind listening to LPs like "Sit down and relax with Jimmy Forrest" or "Hip Twist" that looked and sounded as if they'd been heavily partied over. I passed up several opportunities to buy better copies and put up with my scratched to fuck copies for decades.

MG

Yes, but that is what I mean. I would much prefer a noisy lp to a digitally scrubbed, lifeless cd remaster.

It's like you get Roy Eldridge, or Ben Webster, or Wild Bill Davison with the air that produces their characteristic sound (rasp) digitally removed because the program thinks it is noise. Everything sounds a block away.

So if these quadrophonia remasters are noisy that's one thing. I can put up with the noise if the "life" is still in the music, but if all the presence and life has been removed by the heavy handed use of noise reduction.....that's something else.

[AllenLowe]

actually on the Sonys and BMG first generation of jazz reissue CDs the problem wasn't noise reduction but transfer - it wasn't until relatively recently that these companies were using any hiss-reduction; the biggest problem with CEDAR and NO Noise is artifacts, meaning wave distortion, particularly on high pressure sounds of brass (most often trombone and trumpet, heard as a kind of gutteral whoosh) - the lifeless sounds you refer to (the early Louis, most of the Bix) are the result of 25 year old engineers who never heard the music before and did not know how to transfer it, what styli to use, etc. Also, they did not take the time to find good original sources - as any transfer engineer will tell you, condition and generation of original is about 80% of the battle. And, as important was the conversion to digital - it took a while before engineers full understood the need for good outboard converters, to convert the analog sound to digital, and this - bad digitization - may be the major cause of graininess on early CDs.

A lot of the problem was also poor equalization - I've mentioned this before in regard to the Morton box which, with a bit of EQ, is incredibly good sounding. Another great sounding CD was the early BMG Johnny Dodds, since we're on that subject - if you can find it get it; some of the 1920s sessions are astoundingly clear, as are the sounds on a BMG CD of early white NY (can't think of the name) - when the companies took the time to find good masters, and transferred them correctly, things were ok.

Edited October 27, 2006 by AllenLowe

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Well the postman just turned up and didn't bring anything! (but bills)

MG

Edited October 27, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[BERIGAN]

...

A lot of the problem was also poor equalization - I've mentioned this before in regard to the Morton box which, with a bit of EQ, is incredibly good sounding. Another great sounding CD was the early BMG Johnny Dodds, since we're on that subject - if you can find it get it; some of the 1920s sessions are astoundingly clear, as are the sounds on a BMG CD of early white NY (can't think of the name) - when the companies took the time to find good masters, and transferred them correctly, things were ok.

I bet you are referring to The Jazz Age: New York in the Twenties. You are right (for once) about both this cd, and the Dodds cd having excellent sound.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Well, the Dodds turned up in the post this moring and I've got it on now. When "Yes I'm in the barrel" started, I whipped it off and compared it with the sound on my Armstrong cheapo "Hot fives and sevens" CD (on Giants of Jazz). The Quadromania is a LOT better than that!

Packaging is crap. Still, I'll get by, as long as I have you.

MG