New Orleans clarinet player in New York

[erhodes]

Some time ago I came across a passing reference to an instance of a New Orleans clarinet player sitting in with a New York band/orchestra presumably some time before 1917. As I remember it, the description referred to the fact that the New York players were "startled" by the clarinetist's playing. Other words that may or may not be in the piece were the clarinetist's "display" or "spectacular display". My memory here is worse than usual but I am reasonably sure I read something to this effect.

I thought it might be in the Hentoff/McCarthy "Jazz" book but I'm going through that now and can't find anything in the New Orleans essay or the one on the spead of the big bands. I also thought it might have been in Charters and Kundstadt (sp?) but I can't find it in there either. I've also looked at a few likely album liner notes but no cigar.

Does anyone remember a similar reference? Any thoughts as to a source? Any thoughts as to who the clarinetist might have been? Absent that, does anyone know of comparable written accounts? I'm specifically interested in New Orleans soloists who came to New York prior to the closing of Storyville and who might have been an early window on New Orleans improvising for said New Yorkers.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

[jeffcrom]

I don't know the specific account you're referring to, but the Creole Band, with George Baquet on clarinet, played New York as early as 1915. A quick glance at Lawrence Gushee's book about the band, Pioneers of Jazz, doesn't reveal any incident like you describe, but all I have time for now is a quick glance. The band certainly turned heads (and ears) all over the country on the vaudeville circuit.

[jazztrain]

Ed:

It might have been George Baquet. I think that he was in the northeast (New York and Philadelphia) around that time. Not sure if he was the subject of the reference that you mention. I'll let you know if I can find anything.

Some time ago I came across a passing reference to an instance of a New Orleans clarinet player sitting in with a New York band/orchestra presumably some time before 1917. As I remember it, the description referred to the fact that the New York players were "startled" by the clarinetist's playing. Other words that may or may not be in the piece were the clarinetist's "display" or "spectacular display". My memory here is worse than usual but I am reasonably sure I read something to this effect.

I thought it might be in the Hentoff/McCarthy "Jazz" book but I'm going through that now and can't find anything in the New Orleans essay or the one on the spead of the big bands. I also thought it might have been in Charters and Kundstadt (sp?) but I can't find it in there either. I've also looked at a few likely album liner notes but no cigar.

Does anyone remember a similar reference? Any thoughts as to a source? Any thoughts as to who the clarinetist might have been? Absent that, does anyone know of comparable written accounts? I'm specifically interested in New Orleans soloists who came to New York prior to the closing of Storyville and who might have been an early window on New Orleans improvising for said New Yorkers.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Gee Jeff. Just noticed that you beat me to it! Never mind.

[jazztrain]

There's always Larry Shields with the ODJB. They hit New York in 1917. Yellow Nunez is another possibility, but I don't think he made it to New York that early.

Some time ago I came across a passing reference to an instance of a New Orleans clarinet player sitting in with a New York band/orchestra presumably some time before 1917. As I remember it, the description referred to the fact that the New York players were "startled" by the clarinetist's playing. Other words that may or may not be in the piece were the clarinetist's "display" or "spectacular display". My memory here is worse than usual but I am reasonably sure I read something to this effect.

I thought it might be in the Hentoff/McCarthy "Jazz" book but I'm going through that now and can't find anything in the New Orleans essay or the one on the spead of the big bands. I also thought it might have been in Charters and Kundstadt (sp?) but I can't find it in there either. I've also looked at a few likely album liner notes but no cigar.

Does anyone remember a similar reference? Any thoughts as to a source? Any thoughts as to who the clarinetist might have been? Absent that, does anyone know of comparable written accounts? I'm specifically interested in New Orleans soloists who came to New York prior to the closing of Storyville and who might have been an early window on New Orleans improvising for said New Yorkers.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

[Harold_Z]

Some time ago I came across a passing reference to an instance of a New Orleans clarinet player sitting in with a New York band/orchestra presumably some time before 1917. As I remember it, the description referred to the fact that the New York players were "startled" by the clarinetist's playing. Other words that may or may not be in the piece were the clarinetist's "display" or "spectacular display". My memory here is worse than usual but I am reasonably sure I read something to this effect.

I thought it might be in the Hentoff/McCarthy "Jazz" book but I'm going through that now and can't find anything in the New Orleans essay or the one on the spead of the big bands. I also thought it might have been in Charters and Kundstadt (sp?) but I can't find it in there either. I've also looked at a few likely album liner notes but no cigar.

Does anyone remember a similar reference? Any thoughts as to a source? Any thoughts as to who the clarinetist might have been? Absent that, does anyone know of comparable written accounts? I'm specifically interested in New Orleans soloists who came to New York prior to the closing of Storyville and who might have been an early window on New Orleans improvising for said New Yorkers.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Ed - could you be off by a couple of years and possibly a city? Ernest Ansermet wrote a complimentary piece on Sidney Bechet in 1919 when Bechet was in Paris. Here's a portion:

With Cook's orchestra, Bechet toured New York and Europe. In London he bought a straight-model soprano saxophone and began to adapt it into his repertoire. At Buckingham Palace, he entertained the Prince of Wales with his original composition "Characteristic Blues." Taken with Bechet's fine musicianship, Swiss conductor Ernest Amsermet attended a number of his performances. As quoted in Jelly Roll, Jabbo, and Fats, Amsermet stated: "There is in the Southern Syncopated Orchestra an extraordinary clarinetist who is, so it seems, the first of his race to have composed perfectly formed blues on the clarinet … I wish to set down the name of the artist of genius; as for myself I will never forget it - it is Sidney Bechet."

[erhodes]

This is all quite helpful. The Baquet reference is close to what I remember, though it seems to me that there was some description of a "sitting in" and that the clarinetist was playing with New York musicians. I believe it was definitely New York. My dating - prior to 1917 - is more indirect but I believe the reference was to an incident that occurred before Storyville closed, i.e., before the dispersal of many New Orleans musicians to Chicago and elsewhere. I am pretty sure the reference was not from Chicago or LA. I need to familiarize myself with Baquet. I don't know Gushee's book but I will get on it.

Has anyone heard of Lorenzo Tio(sp?)? Did he perform in New York prior to 1917? Did people like Edmund Hall travel to New York prior to the closing of Storyville?

Again, many thanks for these and any future insights.

[jeffcrom]

Has anyone heard of Lorenzo Tio(sp?)? Did he perform in New York prior to 1917? Did people like Edmund Hall travel to New York prior to the closing of Storyville?

As far as I know, Lorenzo Tio didn't visit NYC until 1923, when he gigged and recorded with A. J. Piron's New Orleans Orchestra. (Great records, by the way.) Ed Hall was a country boy (from Reserve, Louisiana) and didn't even make it to New Orleans until 1919.

[Swinging Swede]

Sidney Bechet recorded in London 1920. Unfortunately these sides were never released.

Benny Peyton's Jazz Kings : Sidney Bechet (cl,sop) Fred Coxito (as) George Smith (vln) Pierre de Caillaux (p) Henry Sapiro (bj) Benny Peyton (d)

London, c. January/February 1920

High society (unissued) Col

Tiger rag -

[erhodes]

The Baquet reference seems closest to what I am looking for and I thank you all for bringing it to my attention. The window is narrow since the band seems to have left California for New York in 1916 and I'm still sticking with a pre-1917 date. But if this is not my reference it's certainly something I want to know more about. I'm going my homework.

Again, thanks to all.