papsrus Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 From the first time I listened to it, I have always regarded the title track from Grant Green's "Idle Moments" to be a study in perfection, from the way the song is arranged/played, its tempo, the soloing, the production -- literally everything about it from beginning to end. A pristine piece of music. "So What" on KOB is another piece that approaches perfection, for me, although I've never been too fond of Evans' solo. It is what it is but I've always somehow wanted more from him on that song. Of course, jazz or improvised music is often (if not mostly) about happy accidents and the imperfections that go hand in hand with improvisation. And I love that, too. But I'm interested in learning what other pieces of music -- jazz or not -- members have listened to and thought, "That's perfect." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Is music in itself ever perfect? I'm not sure about that... it can be perfect in a situation, between you as listener and what's going on in the music. I guess though that's not what you're after... I've had such situations with various kinds of music, from organ jazz to free stuff, from rock to african music. I'm not sure how I could define perfection otherwise... surely lots of Ellington's classic music is "perfect"... also lots of Pres' solos and lots of Charlie Parker's classic Dial and Savoy sessions. Monk's tune "Criss Cross" might be close to perfection... Rollins' original "St. Thomas" is a tune that's almost always perfect for me, regardless of circumstances and moods. Mingus' "Black Saint & The Sinner Lady" or Coltrane's "Crescent" and "A Love Supreme" come to mind, also "Interstellar Space" and "Sun Ship". The tune (and maybe the album) "Circle" from Miles Davis' "Miles Smiles"... can Mingus' Presents ever be perfect? With its sloppy sound and all? To me it is... Just some rumblings, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) The word 'perfect' suggests to me 'formally perfect' - everything in just the right place. But so much of the music I like deliberately distorts formal perfection (think how that works in architecture). Which would seem to suggest that perfect music has inbuilt imperfection. So to find perfect music you need to calibrate the degree of imperfection. At which point I jettison the idea of perfection. I'm not sure it accords with the way humans do things (though it might accord with the ambition of some totalitarian 'art'). ************** I suspect what you mean is music where everything seems to come off across a whole piece. I'm not sure that is perfection; and it's highly subjective (unless you believe in some classical ideal of absolute beauty). Vaughan Williams' 'Fifth Symphony' ia piece that I find 'perfect' for my tastes - it never loses my attention and echoes and overlaps across its length (and has great tunes!). But it is a long way from perfect in its structure and probably gives other listeners the willies. Edited March 12, 2011 by A Lark Ascending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Is music in itself ever perfect? I'm not sure about that... it can be perfect in a situation... Yes. Perfection is an imperfect term. Subjective. I guess I was thinking of a piece of music conceived and executed flawlessly. For me, there's lots of Ellington that would epitomize this ideal: ... surely lots of Ellington's classic music is "perfect"... also lots of Pres' solos and lots of Charlie Parker's classic Dial and Savoy sessions. Monk's tune "Criss Cross" might be close to perfection... Rollins' original "St. Thomas" is a tune that's almost always perfect for me, regardless of circumstances and moods. Mingus' "Black Saint & The Sinner Lady" or Coltrane's "Crescent" and "A Love Supreme" come to mind, also "Interstellar Space" and "Sun Ship". The tune (and maybe the album) "Circle" from Miles Davis' "Miles Smiles"... can Mingus' Presents ever be perfect? With its sloppy sound and all? To me it is... Just some rumblings, sorry. The word 'perfect' suggests to me 'formally perfect' - everything in just the right place. (...) ************** I suspect what you mean is music where everything seems to come off across a whole piece. I suppose I was thinking a little bit of both: a piece of music that is both executed with precision and is conceptually complete. Nothing more could be added; anything less would leave it incomplete. When "Idle Moments" draws to a close and the final note is played, the listener (at least this listener) knows there is not a single note left to be played that could possibly add to the piece. And throughout the piece (to paraphrase that scene in "Amadeus") every note played fits into the 'whole' exactly perfectly. Not too many notes. Not too few. Just the perfect amount. I suppose in the end it's kind of a dumb question, cause a lot of this is subjective. But some songs, like "Idle Moments" for me, seem to rise above the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 RRK's Three for the Festival Eric Dolphy Something Sweet, Something Tender John Coltrane Naima John Coltrane Alabama Lots of John Coltrane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 I suppose in the end it's kind of a dumb question, cause a lot of this is subjective. But some songs, like "Idle Moments" for me, seem to rise above the rest. Not dumb at all. We all have music that just seems to hit all the spots, bang on target. 3 of the 5 tracks on 'Kind of Blue' do that for me. Though I'd argue that what is 'perfect' for you is not necessarily 'perfect' for me - I like 'Idle Moments' but it's never had a place in my pantheon. Others would disagree and argue there is an objective set of criteria by which perfection can be ascertained, applicable to us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Luiz Bonfa - Jacaranda Jimi Hendrix - Villanova Junction Whoa, just ran across this while searching youtube! Mary Lou Williams - My Blue Heaven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 First thing that comes to mind concerning "perfect" in a jazz context are certain Clifford Brown solos. But Clifford isn't my favorite jazz musician. Does that tell you something about "perfect" in a jazz context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 This is the Mary Lou track I was actually going to post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 conceptually complete "Criss Cross" by one Thelonious Monk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Three sounds that for me are perfect music of the "floaty" swing variety: Many of the Billie Holiday Columbias. Early Hackberry Ramblers Roy Newman and His Boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Early Hackberry Ramblers Roy Newman and His Boys who those? just hope not relatives of Slim Dusty (yours truly, a fellow 1/2 oz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 There are probably many, but Jimmy Reed's "Honest I Do" (VeeJay) comes to mind immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Early Hackberry Ramblers Roy Newman and His Boys who those? just hope not relatives of Slim Dusty (yours truly, a fellow 1/2 oz) What's a "fellow 1/2 oz"? Hackberry Ramblers - venerable and revered cajun string band; helped spearhead the string band cajun sound before the accordian came back into the music in the '40s and '50s. Their Arhoolie CD spans 35-50. There's also later recordings available from Arhoolie done by them that are very good. Roy Newman and His Boys - largely forgotten western swing pioneers from the '30s. The most pronounced jazziness of the early western swingers - lots of clarinet, some Bob Dunn on steel and great vocalists. I have a single sensational CD on the small German label Cattle. There's also a bunch of stuff on the JSP "Western Swing And Country Jazz" box, though not quite as solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelz777 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) For me: Jim Hall - Concierto De Aranjuez Johnny Hartman and John Coltrane - They Say It's Wonderful Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage Edited March 13, 2011 by mikelz777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Rollins: You Don't Know What Love Is (from Saxophone Colossus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I consider the Red Allen CDs on County the "KOB of bluegrass" in terms of their distillation of the Bill Monroe Doctrine. I'm no slavish devotee of sunshine pop, but growing up as radiofreak of the '60s and '70s I really do love the best of it. I'd say the only reason I never heard The Free Design was because they weren't released in NZ. Heard them on Pandora a few years back and have since secured their first, second and fifth albums. Not all great - I could do without some of the covers. But when they nail it, with help of the sweetest voices, some jazz/session player hot shots, greats tunes and arrangements, they really are sunshine pop perfection. Also: Petula Clark - I Couldn't Live Without Your Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Early Hackberry Ramblers Roy Newman and His Boys who those? just hope not relatives of Slim Dusty (yours truly, a fellow 1/2 oz) What's a "fellow 1/2 oz"? Hackberry Ramblers - venerable and revered cajun string band; helped spearhead the string band cajun sound before the accordian came back into the music in the '40s and '50s. Their Arhoolie CD spans 35-50. There's also later recordings available from Arhoolie done by them that are very good. Roy Newman and His Boys - largely forgotten western swing pioneers from the '30s. The most pronounced jazziness of the early western swingers - lots of clarinet, some Bob Dunn on steel and great vocalists. I have a single sensational CD on the small German label Cattle. There's also a bunch of stuff on the JSP "Western Swing And Country Jazz" box, though not quite as solid. Half an aussie These two sound interesting, never heard of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Half an aussie Ha ha - I thought you was talking about imperial measurements! Am I /1/2 Oz? All Kiwi born and bred and raised, but 25 years in Melbourne ... still on NZ passport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdavenport Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I always felt the MJQ's "Django" (from the album of the same name) was perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Half an aussie Ha ha - I thought you was talking about imperial measurements! Am I /1/2 Oz? All Kiwi born and bred and raised, but 25 years in Melbourne ... still on NZ passport. Spawn of criminals at any rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Yusef Lateef "Like It Is" Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers "Dat Dere" Wayne Shorter "Armageddon" Roy Brooks "The Free Slave" Roy Haynes "Dorian" Stanley Turrentine "Shirley" Oliver Nelson "Stolen Moments" All perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 The first music I thought of when I saw this thread a few days ago was the best of the King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band sides - "Canal Street Blues," "Dippermouth Blues," "I Ain't Gonna Tell Nobody," the Paramount "Mabel's Dream," take one, etc. This music is a continual source of wonder to me. It's not literally perfect - trombonist Honore Dutrey doesn't swing much and is sometimes out of tune, as is bass saxophonist Charlie Jackson on those sides he plays on, and all the musicians don't always agree on what the chords are supposed to be. But it doesn't matter - the best sides are perfect in the sense that you wouldn't want to change anything. This is music with lots of layers - I'll probably never get to the bottom, and I'm glad about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 ... But it doesn't matter - the best sides are perfect in the sense that you wouldn't want to change anything. ... That gets to the heart of it. Could be a technically flawless performance of a brilliant arrangement, could be a ragged, whiskey-soaked blues. Wouldn't change a note, is the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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