Thad Jones/Mel Lewis

[Tom Storer]

I know this is out of print - I ventured onto ebay for the first time looking for it, miraculously found it up for auction, saw that I wouldn't get it for less than $200, and regretfully slunk away.

I have a couple of Thad & Mel albums that I got cheap, on the Laserlight label, about which I know nothing, entitled "The Groove Merchant" (recorded mostly 17-18 June 1969, four tunes from January and May 1970) and "The Second Race" (recorded 15-17 November 1970). Here's my question: does anyone know if any of this material is in the Mosaic set? For all I know there could be overlap between these Laserlight sets and the Solid State recordings that made up the Mosaic box. Thanks!

[vibes]

Tom, I couldn't find those CD's in the AMG. If you could give the track listings for each, I might be able to help.

[Guest Chaney]

Except for the November 15 - 17, 1970 sessions, looks like the others that you list are Mosaic material.

Here's a quick list of Mosaic dates and titles for the others dates which you list -- all part of the Mosaic:

June 17, 1969:

Tow Away Zone (rejected)

Central Park North (tk 3)

Jive Samba (tk 5)

June 18, 1969:

Quietude (tk 8)

Dig Dipper (tk 5)

Tow Away Zone (tk 3)

The Groove Merchant (tk 9)

January 20, 1970:

Consummation (tk 14)

Dedication (tk 8)

January 21, 1970:

Tiptoe (tk 11)

It Only Happens Every Time (tk 7)

January 28, 1970:

Fingers (tk 8)

Ahunk Ahunk (rejected)

May 25, 1970:

Us (tk 8)

A Child Is Born (tk 1)

Ahunk Ahunk (tk 8)

Albums appear to be Central Park North and Consummation with a combination of the tunes then being released as Thad Jones / Mel Lewis.

[sidewinder]

This is one Mosaic set that it's worth going on bread and gruel for a month or two for, in order to secure (on ebay too, if it comes to that).

[Shrdlu]

You know, I have listened to this set many times, and the one album that I really like is that first one, with Hank Jones and Pepper Adams. I think that album is far and away the best of the set. It's now the only one that I want to hear anymore. Some of the later stuff gets a bit tedious, especially after Pepper had left. I especially find the tracks with a "rock" beat and long, supposedly funky/macho tenor solos, kinda boring and "samey". But the first album has an elegance and a freshness that makes it a masterpiece, thanks partly to some arranging by Bob Brookmeyer. The use of a rhythm guitar adds a lot, too.

An individual reissue, using the session tapes, not the LP masters with the reverb, and done by Malcolm Addey, would be most welcome.

(Not wishing to be contrary, Sidewinder )

[BFrank]

For the record, that Jones/Lewis Mosaic on ebay went for $405!

[desertblues]

For the record, that Jones/Lewis Mosaic on ebay went for $405!

....$405 was the winning bid on a cd set - wonder what the vinyl version of this one goes for (in near mint condition)???

[ssjazz]

You know, I have listened to this set many times, and the one album that I really like is that first one, with Hank Jones and Pepper Adams. I think that album is far and away the best of the set. It's now the only one that I want to hear anymore. Some of the later stuff gets a bit tedious, especially after Pepper had left. I especially find the tracks with a "rock" beat and long, supposedly funky/macho tenor solos, kinda boring and "samey". But the first album has an elegance and a freshness that makes it a masterpiece, thanks partly to some arranging by Bob Brookmeyer. The use of a rhythm guitar adds a lot, too.

An individual reissue, using the session tapes, not the LP masters with the reverb, and done by Malcolm Addey, would be most welcome.

(Not wishing to be contrary, Sidewinder    )

A small disagreement, on one tune. The brass 'choir' (if that's the right term) on "US", is worth putting up with the rock beat. Thanks for reminding me. I'll pull out that set to listen to that one tune, this weekend.

[BFrank]

I just picked up a Laserlight CD called "Village Vanguard Live Sessions" which might be the same as "The Second Race" album previously mentioned. It's got 7 tunes recorded Nov. 15-17, 1970.

• Don't Git Sassy (8:40/7:19)
  
• Little Pixie (10:35/10:30)
  
• The Second Race (14:45/9:36)
  
• Willow Tree (5:00/5:02 - alt. take 4:46)
  
• Ah' That's Freedom (9:23/7:00)
  
• Quietude (5:00/4:44)
  
• Bachafillen (8:50/7:15)
  

I was about to say that this stuff was NOT in the Mosaic box, but now that I'm listening to it, this may be mis-labeled. Without A/B-ing it, this is possibly (probably?) the same as "Session E" of the Mosaic - recorded at the VV on 4/28/67. These tunes are all part of that session and the lineup of musicians is exactly the same. Hard to believe it's a coincidence.

A little later ...

Now I'm getting confused. The times that are listed are different on some of these tunes. I'll put them into the list above. The Mosaic times are in RED.

And later, still ...

"The Second Race" just finished playing and my CD player clocked it's time at around 10:26 - NOT 14:45.

Edited March 7, 2004 by BFrank

[garthsj]

The Laserlight Cds have been an issue for some time now.. I am NOT sure that the following really helps... there is a much more detailed examination in a review in Journal Journal International several years ago which has more explicit details..

Village Vanguard Live Sessions #3 LRC CDC 9013

According to the booklet accompanying MOSAIC MD5-151, the five CD issue of

THE COMPLETE SOLID STATE RECORDINGS OF THE THAD JONES/MEL LEWIS ORCHESTRA

issued in 1994, this LRC CD comprises "rough mixes of performances on an

unauthorised CD set on the LRC label."

Don't Git Sassy is 'mistitled' by LRC as Gettin' Sassy, Bachafillen is

mistitled Baca Feelin' and the Solid State LP had an additional trombone

chorus that was subsequently edited out of the actual master as issued on

the Mosaic source. A- That's Freedom (Ah' That's Freedom on LRC) has a full

piano intro and extra trombone choruses edited out of the actual master.

The master tapes of these performances, which were made by Thad Jones and

Mel Lewis, no longer exist and are not included in the MOSAIC set. The LRC

rough mixes may include the choruses edited out of the legitimate SOLID

STATE LP release, as the track times differ.

Times for the tracks on the LRD CD issue compared to the MOSAIC /Solid

State issues are:

LRC title MOSAIC title LRC MOSAIC

Gettin'Sassy Don't Git Sassy 8:40 7:19

Little Pixie 10:35 10:30

The Second Race 14:45 9:36

Willow Tree 5:00 5:02

Ah' That's Freedom A - 9:23 7:00

That's Freedom Quietude 5:00 4:44

Baca Feelin' Bachafillen 8:50 7:15

The Mosaic book states the session was recorded live at the Village Vanguard

on 28 Apri1, 1967 and not 15- 17 November 1970 as listed on the LRC CD back

liner.

The personnel is listed in the MOSAIC booklet as :

Thad Jones cornet

Snooky Young, Bill Berry, Jimmy Nottingham,

Richard Williams, Marvin Stamm ( trumpets)

Bob Brookmeyer valve trombone

Tom Mclntosh, Garnett Brown trombone

Cliff Heather bass trombone

Jerome Richardson soprano, alto and tenor saxophone, clarinet

Jerry Dodgion alto saxophone, flute

Joe Farrell tenor saxophone, flute

Eddie Daniels tenor saxophone, clarinet

Pepper Adams baritone saxophone, clarinet

Roland Hanna piano Sam Herman guitar, shaker

Richard Davis bass Mel Lewis drums

Personnel in italics are not listed on the LRC back liner

Garth,

Houston.

Edited March 8, 2004 by garthsj

[garthsj]

Re the previous post on the TJMLBB ... apparently this system is not sympathetic to attempts to create columns. However, I am sure that enterprising readers can figure out what I trying to convey ...

Garth,

Houston.

[Shrdlu]

You did a fine job, Garth. It is very kind of you to type out all that information.

[BFrank]

I guess the bottom line is that the V.V. Laserlight set is mislabeled and is basically the same as the live 1968 stuff on the Mosaic set (which I have). Good thing the CD only cost $3.95.

Thanks for the follow-up.

[garthsj]

Thanks for the thanks .... Like the Academy Awards speeches, I want to thank my friend Wellington Choy in New Zeland who pointed me in the direction of the Mosaic booklet for the answers .... he sent me this headsup through the West Coast jazz group (are we allowed to mention other jazz groups on here?? -- Joke, Joke..). I mention this because some of you might enjoy being on that list too ... it is much more relaxed than the usual internet list, mostly, I guess because we are all "mouldy figs" for the golden age of West Coast jazz.. circa 1953-1963. Occasionally a refugee from the contentious Kenton list might cause trouble, but we tend to shush them up...

Garth,

Houston.