ebay fraud alert

[jazzhound]

seller adimarisantos looking to take me for 500 bucks. record graded nm/nm appraised vg/vg-.

He is in Argentina so if he changes name remember do not send payment overseas to any Argentina seller with anything other than PayPal or credit card.

I used BidPay money order and credit card company I used may not do anything.

Ebay refused to do anything even though I can prove fraud and intent to defraud.

[undergroundagent]

Just to be clear...

Is the probem with grading, or that you didn't recieve the item? If this is a problem with grading, but the seller specified that his NM/M may not be the same as other people's grading policies, I, for one, think you'll have a very difficult time proving that he ripped you off.

Also — have you attempted to contact the seller by email, or even by phone? There's not much point pleading your case on this board, if you haven't even talked to the seller (which wouldn't surprise me given our past relations). Ebay will provide you with his personal information in the event that a problem has arisen between the both of you.

Moreover, while you may not want to hear what I have to say, I would strongly recommend that you amend the comment regarding "sending only paypal or credit card" to Argentinians. Some liberal-minded people might take offence to that remark seeing as it implies that all Argentinians are crooks like this seller.

Edited January 12, 2004 by undergroundagent

[rockefeller center]

Moreover, while you may not want to hear what I have to say, I would strongly recommend that you amend the comment regarding "sending only paypal or credit card" to Argentinians. Some liberal-minded people might take offence to that remark seeing as it implies that all Argentinians are crooks like this seller.

While you may not want to hear what I have to say, I would strongly recommend that you amend the comment regarding "liberal-minded people might take offence to that remark seeing as it implies that all Argentinians are crooks like this seller." Some not liberal-minded people might take offence to that remark seeing as it implies that non liberals won't take offence to that remark.

[undergroundagent]

Well, I won't amend my remark seeing as I stated that "some" and not ALL might take offence.

Nevertheless, if he was ripped off, he's done everyone a duty in notifying us of the danger. I just think he could've done it more politically-correct.

[jazzhound]

I don't think anyone will be offended by me trying to warn other members about a dishonest seller.

[undergroundagent]

I don't think anyone will be offended by me trying to warn other members about a dishonest seller.

See my previous post.

[patricia]

No point in getting mired in political correctness, since fraud is fraud. Of course it's not isolated to any one country, but this was a problem which originated in Argentina, so, if the same person or a group of people there is involved in dishonesty, then it's good to know the details and take note.

But the old precautionary "caveat emptor" always applies in any transaction, on E-Bay or anywhere else.

[desertblues]

But the old precautionary "caveat emptor" always applies in any transaction, on E-Bay or anywhere else.

Ain't it the truth! I am impressed with how well things usually work out with Ebay. As a seller I have always done my level best to accurately describe records but there is so much trust involved, and grading is not an exact science. As a buyer I usually assume it's going to be a slightly lesser grade than stated by the seller. Until you've dealt with an individual seller you don't have much to go on except their feedback-and that can be misleading too! Hope you get this resolved jazzhound.

[jazzhound]

Aside from outright fraud, the overgrading syndrome is really something which buyers should not tolerate because it just perpetuates the practice. Anyone who wins an Ebay jazz record auction is usually paying top dollar or more. They should not accept overgrading.

The dealers who grade strict get higher prices and have less returns to deal with. The cheaters are just dumb.

Anyone know a hit man in Argentina?

[patricia]

Aside from outright fraud, the overgrading syndrome is really something which buyers should not tolerate because it just  perpetuates the practice. Anyone who wins an Ebay jazz record auction is usually paying top dollar or more. They should not accept overgrading.

    The dealers who grade strict get higher prices and have less returns to deal with.  The cheaters are just dumb. 

    Anyone know a hit man in Argentina?

         

Being too trusting is something that I have a little experience with. I know this isn't about over-grading, or mail fraud, but I once shared my apartment with a woman I didn't know was a hooker. [OK, OK. Laugh it up.] She moved out, while I was at work, taking everything of value that I owned. I called my brother and when he looked around my apartment he said "What have you learned from this?"

Sometimes we learn the hard way, but with E-Bay, you do have a few avenues of recourse. Just giving an unflattering "feedback" could be enough.

Edited January 14, 2004 by patricia

[AmirBagachelles]

Paying $500 thru the mail for a sight-unseen used item, let alone a fragile vinyl LP much more likely than not to show wear and tear (let me guess, it's 20+ yrs old?), qualifies as temporary insanity. And to send it overseas, well, you lacked common sense as well in that instance. Buy records and collectibles of any kind from dealers you know. Really know. Or expect to get ripped off occasionally.

[hutch head]

I've purchased only about 30 LPs over ebay. When I bid on vinyl auctions, I assume that the condition is inflated about one grade level (meaning a NM- is a VG+, or a VG+ is a VG). Using this assumption, I haven't had any problems --until last month. A record was advertised as a "beatiful VG+" but it was in Good condition when it arrived on my doorstep (scratched to hell and a slight stain on the cover). I left neutral feedback for this character, and he completely flipped out. He sent me a crazy e-mail calling me a "coward" for not trying to resolve the issue "like a MAN" by asking for a refund via e-mail. It was only a $10 LP and not really worth my time to pack it up, pay for postage, and send it back to him. I worked in a used record store in Chicago for 5 years, so I'm pretty confident in my grading ability. I feel I have a right to inform other ebay members of this guy's grade inflation. When I checked his feedback page, I noticed that another person commented on the seller's wrong vinyl grade, yet ended up leaving positive feedback anyway. Am I so wrong to leave neutral feedback for a record that belonged in the budget bin?

[Dan Gould]

I would say that most of the time, my vinyl ebay purchases and have been appropriately graded; and when honest mistakes occur, every dealer except one has done something about it, always leaving me feeling as if I had been made at least 90% whole:

1) Offer a partial refund because you wouldn't have bid so high for a VG instead of an M-.

2) Offer a full refund, just return the LP (at my expense)

3) Full refund, including all shipping costs.

4) Full refund, and KEEP the LP

Obviously I like #4 the best, and it has happened more than once!

In short, it always pays to express your disappointment before leaving feedback.

I must also admit that I am more tolerant of misgraded LPs because of the fact that I always dump the audio into the PC and manually de-click it, so as long as there are no really bad spots like skips or scratches that won't play through, I know I can get a decent burn out of it, it just takes a little time.

[wolff]

Thanks, for the heads-up, but by looking at his feedback I would never buy from this guy anyway.

I do not see your purchase from him anywhere. What LP was it? I'd like to see the description. Did you leave NF?

I filed fraud once and Ebay helped me every step of the way.

I can't believe you cannot charge back the cc purchase.

[Jazzmoose]

hutch head, I have mixed emotions on that one. Accepted eBay procedure is to contact the seller and try to resolve the issue BEFORE leaving feedback. On the other hand, there seem to be more and more dealers that sell junk, assuming they can always refund to the complainers and knowing that most won't complain. Yes, you should have tried to resolve the issue. On the other hand, letting people know the guy overgrades can't be all bad...

One thing everyone should keep in mind with feedback is that if you just buy and don't sell, it really doesn't mean a damned thing. Even if a seller retaliates with a negative, at worse it just means you have to learn to snipe...

[Tjazz]

I've purchased only about 30 LPs over ebay. When I bid on vinyl auctions, I assume that the condition is inflated about one grade level (meaning a NM- is a VG+, or a VG+ is a VG). Using this assumption, I haven't had any problems --until last month. A record was advertised as a "beatiful VG+" but it was in Good condition when it arrived on my doorstep (scratched to hell and a slight stain on the cover). I left neutral feedback for this character, and he completely flipped out. He sent me a crazy e-mail calling me a "coward" for not trying to resolve the issue "like a MAN" by asking for a refund via e-mail. It was only a $10 LP and not really worth my time to pack it up, pay for postage, and send it back to him. I worked in a used record store in Chicago for 5 years, so I'm pretty confident in my grading ability. I feel I have a right to inform other ebay members of this guy's grade inflation. When I checked his feedback page, I noticed that another person commented on the seller's wrong vinyl grade, yet ended up leaving positive feedback anyway. Am I so wrong to leave neutral feedback for a record that belonged in the budget bin?

It's amazing how people are 'scared' to leave negative feedback.

[undergroundagent]

I've left negative feedback before and, truthfully, it isn't something I care to do over music. If it was a car, or something more valuable, I would.

In this case, however, if jazzhound has payed a nice dollar to get this LP (what was it by the way?), and it's not up too par...he deserves to know!! Dishonestly should not be tolerated in terms of LPs. That said, if the seller has offered you a refund, what else can be done?

It's a tricky situation, but, ultimately, this man deserves to get his money back. Hopefully, it works out for you.

[AmirBagachelles]

He does deserve his money back, as do most unhappy customers, excluding johns and that sort. (Jazzhound does deserve his money, but he is a bit of a john right here....) But he won't get his money back because it's Ebay, where almost anything goes, and the system overwhelmingly favors sellers. Stop the madness, don't pay big bucks blindly, especially when you have no recourse in reality.

[jazzhound]

Seller changed his name to Captainbubble. Isn't that cute?

Got a chargeback from credit card, but now BidPay is threatening me with collection agency is I don't pay them what was charged back.

meanwhile seller still selling, appears to have ripped of someone from France. I guess its easier to shaft overseas buyers.

I will be able to recover part of the loss from EBAY it appears.

If you are a buyer, do not use BidPay!!!