Kurrtzweil, technology, the myth or reality of progress..

[fasstrack]

Anyone ever read Ray Kurtzweil? I skimmed through his book Technologies with Souls (a paraphrase of the title) today. He was talking about how you can now (written in 1999) interact with machines creatively, like using a sort of wind channel that's supposed to be an update of a flute, but without the limited physical (sonic) qualities. It has multiple sound possibilities, which is kind of fascinating. But he lost my vote when went on to say that it's now possible for a young person to write a symphony and realize it sonically w/o leaving his bedroom. I think Kurtzweil quite a brilliant man, and was impressed with his synthesizers---but I think he slept late on this one. What about social interaction? What about experienced players straightening the kid out about his neophyte writing mistakes?

Technologies are amazing tools, but I view them as stand-ins for real interaction. It's great for a composer to save untold time having Sibelius transpose and print out parts, or a Kurtzweil or other synth play back the music you fed it. But an arranger who's had a steady diet of this and doesn't know practicalities---knowing when a horn player needs a breath, ranges of instruments, etc.---will surely have black and blue marks on his or her ass trying to write something for real-life performance. Perhaps Kurtzweil or someone else could design a program that interrupts and corrects when such mistakes are made. They could hire an arranger versed in technology and pay a consulting fee.

Also, I've yet to see a personal margin note or dog ears on a book stored on a Kindle. And books are portable, so the mobility argument won't wash here IMO.

Later in the chapter he gives several examples of Haiku written on Kurtzweil computers fed data from love and other poems. The results: logical, yes. Also stiff and soul-dead, an interesting result published in a book with 'soul' in its title.

C'mon Ray, you're way better than this....

Edited February 20, 2012 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

...an arranger who's had a steady diet of this and doesn't know practicalities---knowing when a horn player needs a breath, ranges of instruments, etc.---will surely have black and blue marks on his or her ass trying to write something for real-life performance.

Unless, of course, the real-life performance doesn't involve human players (which it increasingly does not). Then, you can do anything.

Not that you should, but...

I know a lot of guys, horn players, singers, everybody, who are getting solo gigs, just them and their tracks. I place the blame for most of these tracks being dull and unimaginative on the dull and imaginative person who created them (usually the player themself, who, surprise, surprise, is also dull and imaginative), not some innate flaw in the technology, not these days.

Plenty of hesitancies remain, and I think this is just the beginning stages of what will be a long, ongoing evolution, but I think it's a good thing overall that technology removes the imperative from society to give a positive reward to just "doing something". A stage full of mediocrity playing a night's worth of mediocrity in a most mediocre fashion can no longer be really justified/celebrated as "supporting live music", not when you can get just as much mediocrity from one person and one computer (or even better, no people and no computers). People say, "awww, that's not real music", to which I would say that dreck made by 8 people as opposed to dreck made by one is still dreck, and why should we be bemoaning the thinning of the dreck-herd?

Human interaction? One of the biggest jokes at all is when musicians complain about a lack of human interaction when they're being ignored in a room full of people engaging in human interaction. Talk about irony! Or vanity, or cluelessness, or whatever sel you got. I know a bandleader who gets all upset and insecure when people eat during a dinner set instead of dancing. Fucking A, dumbass, it's a DINNER set. If people are enjoying their dinner while you're playing, you're freaking DOING YOUR JOB THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DONE!!!

Yeah, I'm grumpy today. but even on a great day, I look at it like, if you can't bring something to the table that can't be replaced by a machine, you either don't have the skills to match the machine (in which case, practice!) or else don't have the understanding of what is really being sought (in which case, start separating business from music and see what insights develop that can turn wishful thinking into an objective appraisal of reality), so...it's not like there's no more lessons to be learned from the Industrial Revolution, ya'know?

Edited February 20, 2012 by JSngry

[papsrus]

... He was talking about how you can now (written in 1999) interact with machines creatively ...

Not directly related to what you're talking about, but I found this fascinating video presentation on the topic of intuitive "sixth sense" technology to be along the same lines: interacting with technology in more "human" ways, generally speaking.

(I started a thread about this a few months ago, but no takers.)

If you think of things like Siri, for instance, or manipulating images on a computer screen by using your fingers rather than a mouse, these seem to be a more intuitive and natural way to interact with technology than was available even a few years ago.

Hope I haven't slid off the rails too far from what you were getting at.

The linked video above starts slowly, but it is interesting enough to watch all the way through, I think.

[fasstrack]

...an arranger who's had a steady diet of this and doesn't know practicalities---knowing when a horn player needs a breath, ranges of instruments, etc.---will surely have black and blue marks on his or her ass trying to write something for real-life performance.

I know a lot of guys, horn players, singers, everybody, who are getting solo gigs, just them and their tracks. I place the blame for most of these tracks being dull and unimaginative on the dull and imaginative person who created them (usually the player themself, who, surprise, surprise, is also dull and imaginative), not some innate flaw in the technology, not these days.

Good point. Mediocre is mediocre, great great, etc. The tools are as good as their users. Even the point I made on putting in warnings against bad arranging practice in programs is to no avail if no one cares enough or has enough talent to heed them. And if your writing content sucks, forget the bells and whistles. As long as a person can hear it's your ass. Edited February 20, 2012 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

And as far as "machines" allowing people to sound instruments outside of their practical range, hell, an instrument is a machine in the first place, so having a computer play a bass note so low or a violin note so high that it's "not playable" ignores how it's ultimately all just sound, and that this would not even be a "concern" if the "machines" of basses and violins did not exist in the first place.

Back on the old BNBB, I was chided by one guy in particular for referring to this being a time of paradigm shift. Well hell, what else is it if not that?

[fasstrack]

And as far as "machines" allowing people to sound instruments outside of their practical range, hell, an instrument is a machine in the first place, so having a computer play a bass note so low or a violin note so high that it's "not playable" ignores how it's ultimately all just sound, and that this would not even be a "concern" if the "machines" of basses and violins did not exist in the first place.

Also a good point.

Better to be a phoenix than an ash..............or something.

[rostasi]

ummm... I'm not sure how to respond to a post from someone

who "skimmed," then lazily mistitled a book (and guessed a date?)

from an author in which the man's name is spelled incorrectly.

Anyone heard of this guy named Charlie Packer who once played

with Jay McShann (or was it Thom McAn? ) and Earl Hiney.

I didn't get much from it - don't see what the fuss is about.

Ray Kurzweil is a visionary and a damn nice guy

thinking about our future (and present) in ways that we

need to be aware of (whether we like the possibilities or not).

You don't have to like him, but at least try to provide

a foundation less wobbly (and a bit more current) than

what we've all been given here.

thanks,

®

---

Now playing: Lucho Bermudez y Su Orquesta Sabanera - Arroz Con Coco

[fasstrack]

ummm... I'm not sure how to respond to a post from someone

who "skimmed," then lazily mistitled a book (and guessed a date?)

from an author in which the man's name is spelled incorrectly.

Anyone heard of this guy named Charlie Packer who once played

with Jay McShann (or was it Thom McAn? ) and Earl Hiney.

I didn't get much from it - don't see what the fuss is about.

Ray Kurzweil is a visionary and a damn nice guy

thinking about our future (and present) in ways that we

need to be aware of (whether we like the possibilities or not).

You don't have to like him, but at least try to provide

a foundation less wobbly (and a bit more current) than

what we've all been given here.

thanks,

®

Well, you have a point. But gimme a break, too. I was just passing through a bookstore and took the time to read a chapter.

I also said I had a lot of respect for the man. Maybe you'd have gotten that had you not, um, skimmed what I wrote.

---

Now playing: Lucho Bermudez y Su Orquesta Sabanera - Arroz Con Coco

ummm... I'm not sure how to respond to a post from someone

who "skimmed," then lazily mistitled a book (and guessed a date?)

from an author in which the man's name is spelled incorrectly.

Anyone heard of this guy named Charlie Packer who once played

with Jay McShann (or was it Thom McAn? ) and Earl Hiney.

I didn't get much from it - don't see what the fuss is about.

Ray Kurzweil is a visionary and a damn nice guy

thinking about our future (and present) in ways that we

need to be aware of (whether we like the possibilities or not).

You don't have to like him, but at least try to provide

a foundation less wobbly (and a bit more current) than

what we've all been given here.

thanks,

®

---

Now playing: Lucho Bermudez y Su Orquesta Sabanera - Arroz Con Coco

Well, you have a point. But gimme a break, too. I was just passing through a bookstore and took the time to read a chapter.

I also said I had a lot of respect for the man. Maybe you'd have gotten that had you not, um, skimmed what I wrote.

---

Edited February 21, 2012 by fasstrack