Future of historic (and near- contemporary) Jazz/Blues master tapes

[robertoart]

As an aside to the 'Death Of EMI' thread - and with regard to the countless threads about lost, damaged, missing or languishing in the vaults master tapes - does anyone foresee a day when there could be a 'keeping place' for the original session tapes (or even original vinyl, if tapes are gone), that form the Jazz and Blues part of the great Black American musical experience.

I mean something like a "National Endowment For" or some kind of 'Homogenous Institution' that would research -find-purchase-collate and lovingly archive those tapes that now seem to be wallowing at the bottom of the multi-national food chain, in terms of importance and cultural (and financial) significance. In the digital age (and the age of boutique vinyl re-issue labels), the tapes could be assigned out - or licenced to - perspective commercial interests, much in the way the multi-nationals use the original tapes anyway

I know the politics and money issues surrounding something like this would be enormous - but the benefits are potentially great.

For instance, the original masters from catalogues like Blue Note, Verve, Chess, Argo, 'Nessa' Cadet Dial ESP Muse, maybe even Black Saint and DIW , all the pre 1960's Blues recordings etc, etc, etc could be part of a National archive - with the proper scholarship and respect this entails.

If the only 'mainstream' interest left in this cultural legacy is reserved for the 'perennial' 'lifestyle addendum' sellers, like Blue Train, Kind Of Blue, Chet Baker, Bill Evans etc..., and with the spectre of 'public domain' lurking to reduce the 'financial potency' of most of these catalogues, is it not better to begin a process to treat this history (and the first historical primary sources ie., the tapes) with a bit of a collective/historical consciousness. I think collectively - as a cultural legacy - the tradition of the music can in many ways be seen wholistically - as opposed to say 'just' rescuing 'the rejected B-sides of The Troggs 1960's Vanguard sessions (if indeed there ever was a 1960's Troggs Vanguard session).

Edited July 18, 2012 by freelancer

[AllenLowe]

not going to happen - which is why I have bought as many master-quality LPs and CDs as financially possible. The majors will bury those tapes and discs at sea before they let them see the light of day. And it ain't just black music, but also the mountains of country and hillbilly music masters buried at Sony and BMG (or whoever owns RCA now) -

[robertoart]

not going to happen - which is why I have bought as many master-quality LPs and CDs as financially possible. The majors will bury those tapes and discs at sea before they let them see the light of day. And it ain't just black music, but also the mountains of country and hillbilly music masters buried at Sony and BMG (or whoever owns RCA now) -

Yes I accept this is unfortunately the reality. I suppose my thinking is along the lines of other art mediums like visual art or cultural artefacts that museums collect and preserve.

In the sense that what once started out in the domain of a consumer culture (say a Jackson Pollock painting, or a Rembrant painting) eventually transcends - and makes a transition to something deemed necessary to be culturally sanctioned (for want of a better term), into something outside of a commercial framework. The issue clouding cultural music I guess, is that master tapes are seen as a generative thing - not so much as an 'object in itself'. Yes there are also all kinds of issues this thinking raises in terms of popular culture verses art -but I think the demarcation lines are clear enough. Also I wasn't totally trying to blanket it into an Afro-American music thing - but probably thinking of it with regard to the kinds of movements like the Lincoln Centre (and yes I am aware of the contempt many hold for the Marsarlis/Crouch approach to this) or other more grass-roots places - whereby the moves to preserve and develop the music from a performance base perspective could also be transferred to a similar institutional setting - with regard to the research and preservation of primary musical artifacts like the tapes.

So I guess the question is - will the 'primary artifacts' 'ever' be considered 'too' important to be left to the mercy and realm of 'business' - and 'eventually' become objects demanded to be properly preserved, archived and accessible as cultural treasures.

And yes, I know the answer is probably a big 'no', but it shouldn't be that way.

Edited July 18, 2012 by freelancer

[AllenLowe]

well, they have been, already, but by collectors. That's probably the best we can hope for.

[cih]

**For the contents of Dixon/Godrich/Rye there is Document Records - despite what people say about them - nobody aside from Johnny Parth was going to put out the complete 8 volumes-worth of Rev Gates sermons. He said himself this was not for the purposes of 'entertainment'. Other labels covered a broad selection with higher quality sound. For me this used to be enough - outside Dixon/Godrich/Rye I guess is another matter (Allen extended my own horizons beyond the standard discographies with his sets..)

Probably a Jackson Pollock painting was already in another, preserved, area of culture before he laid the paint down.

On a somewhat related note I read a review the other day about John Fahey & Revenant Records, there was a funny bit in it about how he and other "blues wonks" have a dual vision of the status of the music and can 'flick into dismissive mode' over the stuff they love, that is - though he clearly reveres the old records he says things like "don't take any notice of the words, they just said any old shit" etc. The piece suggests that despite the loving care taken over luxury reissues, books etc - if the music is hailed as 'great American Art' by outsiders, afficionados are ready to remind people that this was 'just entertainment'. Fahey can adopt the two positions simultaneously in the same sentence - reverence and dismissal - in order, the article claims, to preserve an expert status. But I think it's more subtle than that and it's partly an instinctive sleight of hand that comes from not wanting people to do damage to it, or focus too long on one spot - 'there's nothing to see here' kind of thing. Though there are some odd-bods out there in the collector world.

didn't the entire Alan Lomax archive go public recently?

**edit - I realise the original post was about preserving masters and tapes - not just making digital copies... I preserve my status as confused fan

Edited July 19, 2012 by cih

[robertoart]

Well case in point the tapes of Wes Montgomery's Incredible Jazz Guitar apparently are no more. So either they got mixed up with the the trash and ended as land-fill, or some 'collector' has them in his closet. Either way an unacceptable fate for the masterpiece of the 20th century's greatest guitarist.

Sure, it is true that a Pollock inhabited a different cultural space before the painting was begun, very true. Aesthetic battles in 'art' and classical music always had a tradition of importance that Blues and improvised music had to be elevated too.

I suppose in my eyes, the actual primary documents of recorded music performance occupy the same importance as the Pollock original. And the Pollock original is seen as one part of the greater story of his art - and then the wider story of American Modernism. And I suspect no stone is left unturned in documenting and ensuring every aspect of his output is known catalogued and preserved. Whether in public or private hands.

So I also wonder what kinds of archiving and access surrounds the history and future of 'the classical music' primary sources?

[Pete C]

maybe even Black Saint and DIW ,

At the next G7 meeting you can start negotiations with Italy & Japan!

[robertoart]

maybe even Black Saint and DIW ,

At the next G7 meeting you can start negotiations with Italy & Japan!

I'm sure anybody who took the trouble to start and maintain those labels won't be invited to the G7.

Bloody radicals.

[paul secor]

**For the contents of Dixon/Godrich/Rye there is Document Records - despite what people say about them - nobody aside from Johnny Parth was going to put out the complete 8 volumes-worth of Rev Gates sermons. He said himself this was not for the purposes of 'entertainment'. Other labels covered a broad selection with higher quality sound. For me this used to be enough - outside Dixon/Godrich/Rye I guess is another matter (Allen extended my own horizons beyond the standard discographies with his sets..)

Probably a Jackson Pollock painting was already in another, preserved, area of culture before he laid the paint down.

On a somewhat related note I read a review the other day about John Fahey & Revenant Records, there was a funny bit in it about how he and other "blues wonks" have a dual vision of the status of the music and can 'flick into dismissive mode' over the stuff they love, that is - though he clearly reveres the old records he says things like "don't take any notice of the words, they just said any old shit" etc. The piece suggests that despite the loving care taken over luxury reissues, books etc - if the music is hailed as 'great American Art' by outsiders, afficionados are ready to remind people that this was 'just entertainment'. Fahey can adopt the two positions simultaneously in the same sentence - reverence and dismissal - in order, the article claims, to preserve an expert status. But I think it's more subtle than that and it's partly an instinctive sleight of hand that comes from not wanting people to do damage to it, or focus too long on one spot - 'there's nothing to see here' kind of thing. Though there are some odd-bods out there in the collector world.

didn't the entire Alan Lomax archive go public recently?

**edit - I realise the original post was about preserving masters and tapes - not just making digital copies... I preserve my status as confused fan

From what I've read and heard, Fahey had enough of a contrary and quirky character that he'd write and say things just to get a reaction from people. The "sleight of hand" thing you mention probably comes into play too.

Edited July 19, 2012 by paul secor