BFT #130 Discussion Thread

[jeffcrom]

Okay, since just about everything has been identified, most of what follows is just comments. I hope that some of it is worth reading. Since I started backwards, I'll end going backwards.

16. An all-star band from the 1944 Esquire concert. This is one amazing “Tea for Two.” Barney Bigard is in excellent post-Duke form, Roy Eldridge is great, and Art Tatum’s grasp of harmony is just plain scary. Lionel Hampton is the vibes soloist, and Jack Teagarden plays tasty licks in the final ensemble. Big Sid Catlett is one of my favorite drummers and Oscar Pettiford is on bass. Coleman Hawkins and Al Casey are also on board, but not as prominent.

I’ve been browsing Esquire’s annual Jazz Books from 1944, 1945, and 1946 lately, and they’re fascinating. The panel of experts who voted on the all-star band in 1944 were more or less in consensus, but 1945 really saw a split between the modernists and the moldy figs. Anyway, the books are interesting snapshots of critical opinion at the time.

And, related to the theme of “It’s all meat from the same bone” (more on this later), those who were distressed by the “advanced” harmonies of the beboppers ignored the fact that Tatum and Hawkins had been doing that stuff for years.

15. Artie Shaw, of course, as others have said. You picked a really obscure example – the tune is “The Man From Mars,” which Shaw never recorded in the studio, as far as I can tell. The clarinet playing is just stunning. A few years before, Shaw was competent clarinetist, but by this time, he was perhaps without equal in terms of clarinet technique. And his sound was very individual and beautiful.

I don’t know who the trumpet and trombone soloists are, but that’s George Auld on tenor. I love the sound of the Shaw sax section from this period; Les Robinson was one of the great lead alto players. And young Buddy Rich kicks ass!

14. I much prefer the issued studio recording Goodman made of “All the Cats Join In.” There’s a passage for his sextet, with vibes and guitar, that’s a nice contrast with the big band. All the overdubbed stuff just annoys me.

13. This session has been criticized for not reaching the heights that Armstrong and Bechet hit in the Clarence Williams Blue Five records 15 years earlier. I prefer to enjoy these 1940 sides for what they are – a relaxed meeting of two established masters. And Claude Jones is one of the most underrated trombonists in jazz history. I can’t say enough about how good Bechet sounds here.

12. I love, love, love this record. Brilliant playing by the first genius of jazz and the only musician who could really keep up with him at the time. They had such mastery of time that they do some amazing things with rhythm here – stretching, delaying, overlaying – but it always comes out right. This was the avant-garde of the time.

11. I was kind of surprised at all the “Is Louis really on here?” discussion of this record. Yes, the cornets are trading phrases in the first strain, and can be heard playing in harmony after those traded licks. That’s Louis playing the triplet pickup to the second strain, I think, and he plays the lower harmony in that strain – his vibrato is different from Oliver’s.

That kind of technical stuff aside, Oliver’s Creole Jazz Band is one of the great ensembles in jazz history. It worked so well because, although there’s a lot going on, everyone understood his/her role. I hear new things every time I listen to them. And “Canal Street Blues,” with its bluesy swing, is one of my favorites.

10. The beginning of the jazz ballad. Lester Young carried a copy of this one in his tenor case, supposedly. Trumbauer had interesting ideas, but his playing sounds wispy and unswinging in the end. Bix had even more interesting ideas, and his playing had guts and heart. Just beautiful. I’ve never thought that Eddie Lang was a very good soloist (for some of the same reasons I feel that way about Trumbauer), but he was a masterful accompanist, and he’s brilliant here.

9. This record drives from beginning to end. Jelly knew how to organize a performance for maximum effect. I love his raw singing here, and hooray for Omer Simeon!

8. When Benny Goodman heard the Basie band, he wanted to remake his own band in that image. He didn’t succeed, but he did record this rehearsal session with Charlie Christian and a bunch of Basie-ites. It’s delicious music. I wish Christian had lived long enough to record with Lester Young more than the couple of times they managed it. The only way this music could have been better would be to have Christian there just as a soloist, and to have Freddie Green play rhythm guitar.

7. Simple brilliance. Listen to Ellington’s touch at the beginning – it’s almost Monk-like. Ellington had a band of amazing individual voices that were able to blend wonderfully. It sometimes distresses me that younger players in a more or less “mainstream” jazz style sound so much alike. With Ellington, you can hear every individual voice when the sax section is playing, but it still blends.

6. I’m liable to take some flak for this, but this was the least interesting recording I’m posting about today. It’s exciting and swings hard, but it’s kind of one-dimensional to me, whereas the Ellington recording has so much more subtlety while swinging just as hard.

5. I love Louis Armstrong’s work accompanying blues singers – he did a lot of it in the 1920s. He’s actually kind of inconsistent on the Bessie Smith records he’s on, but he’s brilliant here. Was there ever a slower version of the song than this one? Bessie is head and shoulders above every similar singer of her time, even Ma Rainey. She gets all over me.

4. The session that introduced Lester Young to the world at large. What a wonderful solo – light and fresh, but beautifully constructed. Props to everyone else, too, of course.

3. What can you say about this? Django was one of a kind, and Grappelli is wonderful here.

2. A great band, and Billie when she was young and fresh. I actually prefer her later work, even though her voice had deteriorated. I have never before noticed that someone honks their car horn outside the studio just as Goodman goes to the bridge. Teddy Wilson made it sound so easy….

1. When I was a kid, I knew that Louis Armstrong was supposed to be a genius, but I didn’t understand why. I occasionally heard “Mack the Knife” or “Cabaret” on the radio, and they were fun, but not the work of a genius. Then I checked a Louis Armstrong LP collection out of my local library. When I heard the opening cadenza of “West End Blues,” I instantly got it. The way Louis plays with time here is amazing. A masterpiece.

I love older jazz, but I love new stuff, too, and feel that it’s all connected. I never liked Kid Thomas Valentine until I heard Lester Bowie. I loved Bowie’s playing, and it enabled me to hear what Kid Thomas was doing. All meat off the same bone.

Really enjoyed this BFT, even if I did have "rules" imposed on me!

Edited January 24, 2015 by jeffcrom

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

6. I’m liable to take some flak for this, but this was the least interesting recording I’m posting about today. It’s exciting and swings hard, but it’s kind of one-dimensional to me, whereas the Ellington recording has so much more subtlety while swinging just as hard.

Not flak Jeff, but one-dimensional was what it was supposed to be, and was what people needed and wanted in those days. From the point of view of customer satisfaction, this was, at the time, unbeatable because the point wasn't the swinging but the screaming and cursing and stamping your feet.

That being said, it was done much better later; more screamingly, more cursingly, more stampingly, more everythingly. Well, but you gotta start from where you are. And wherever you are, that's where you begin and it's making a mark if it does what it's trying to do. This is music for people who don't want/need music so much as to scream, curse and stamp their feet. Yeah, and march out of the hall and hit policemen and riot.

MG

PS It was the first Black Power music, and that was NOT true of Red Allen and the Mills Blue Rhythm Band in the thirties.

[lipi]

16. An all-star band from the 1944 Esquire concert. This is one amazing “Tea for Two.” Barney Bigard is in excellent post-Duke form, Roy Eldridge is great, and Art Tatum’s grasp of harmony is just plain scary. Lionel Hampton is the vibes soloist, and Jack Teagarden plays tasty licks in the final ensemble. Big Sid Catlett is one of my favorite drummers and Oscar Pettiford is on bass. Coleman Hawkins and Al Casey are also on board, but not as prominent.

I’ve been browsing Esquire’s annual Jazz Books from 1944, 1945, and 1946 lately, and they’re fascinating. The panel of experts who voted on the all-star band in 1944 were more or less in consensus, but 1945 really saw a split between the modernists and the moldy figs. Anyway, the books are interesting snapshots of critical opinion at the time.

And, related to the theme of “It’s all meat from the same bone” (more on this later), those who were distressed by the “advanced” harmonies of the beboppers ignored the fact that Tatum and Hawkins had been doing that stuff for years.

Yeah, the punks! Though somehow they made it sound good.

Those Esquire books are quite a trip. I don't have the 1945 one, but I have, and have read, the other two. I agree with Jeff: these are very interesting snapshots. The selection of "experts" is also interesting. Timme Rosenkrantz, for instance, makes into both books and even gets a few paragraphs of text describing his votes. John Hammond, on the other hand, just gets a list of names. Did he not submit an explanation? Did they not find him interesting or important enough to include it? I have no idea. (Aside: Timme Rosenkrantz's memoirs ("Harlem Jazz Adventures A European Baron's Memoir") are excellent.)

Anyway, yes. It's just what you said. The LaserLight release of that concert was one of my first CDs back in 1992 or so. I didn't really know who any of these guys were--this was my introduction to all of them (except Armstrong, whom I'd heard on his duets with Ella).

15. Artie Shaw, of course, as others have said. You picked a really obscure example – the tune is “The Man From Mars,” which Shaw never recorded in the studio, as far as I can tell. The clarinet playing is just stunning. A few years before, Shaw was competent clarinetist, but by this time, he was perhaps without equal in terms of clarinet technique. And his sound was very individual and beautiful.

I don’t know who the trumpet and trombone soloists are, but that’s George Auld on tenor. I love the sound of the Shaw sax section from this period; Les Robinson was one of the great lead alto players. And young Buddy Rich kicks ass!

14. I much prefer the issued studio recording Goodman made of “All the Cats Join In.” There’s a passage for his sextet, with vibes and guitar, that’s a nice contrast with the big band. All the overdubbed stuff just annoys me.

I can never pick a favourite in the Benny/Artie debate. "Man from Mars" is a great tune--I wish there'd been a studio recordings. There are several live recordings in the discographies, but I've only ever found this one on (various) CD. (Admittedly I haven't dug very hard.)

The studio recording of "All the Cats Join In" is great, too. It's a bit faster, and doesn't have the silly cartoony quality. I debated on which one to pick, and used this one in the hope that someone would recognize it from seeing the Make Mine Music bit.

13. This session has been criticized for not reaching the heights that Armstrong and Bechet hit in the Clarence Williams Blue Five records 15 years earlier. I prefer to enjoy these 1940 sides for what they are – a relaxed meeting of two established masters. And Claude Jones is one of the most underrated trombonists in jazz history. I can’t say enough about how good Bechet sounds here.

Bechet really, really does sound great. Then again, he always does; I don't know that I've heard a bad Bechet recording. I love this whole little ensemble. This record is a delight to dance to (and everyone playing was still from the school where they wouldn't take this as a diss).

12. I love, love, love this record. Brilliant playing by the first genius of jazz and the only musician who could really keep up with him at the time. They had such mastery of time that they do some amazing things with rhythm here – stretching, delaying, overlaying – but it always comes out right. This was the avant-garde of the time.

Yeah, I don't have anything to add. This is one of those "please, you should have heard this at least once--if you hate it, that's fine, but please listen once" things (which is how I decided to include most of the tracks in the first half of this BFT). I've heard this recording tons of times, and I still have moments when I go "are they gonna make it? are they gonna get together on this in time?".

11. I was kind of surprised at all the “Is Louis really on here?” discussion of this record. Yes, the cornets are trading phrases in the first strain, and can be heard playing in harmony after those traded licks. That’s Louis playing the triplet pickup to the second strain, I think, and he plays the lower harmony in that strain – his vibrato is different from Oliver’s.

That kind of technical stuff aside, Oliver’s Creole Jazz Band is one of the great ensembles in jazz history. It worked so well because, although there’s a lot going on, everyone understood his/her role. I hear new things every time I listen to them. And “Canal Street Blues,” with its bluesy swing, is one of my favorites.

For the record, I was sure Armstrong played on the record--I just wasn't sure they alternated measures in the introduction (pa-da-da-dah; pa-da-da-dah; pa-da-da-dah). It sounds like it could be, but for all I know it's just Oliver.

A few years ago, I went to a jazz dance (mostly) and music camp and took a week of classes. The you're-lucky-I-didn't-include-it 25th track of this BFT would have been the recording I made of a bunch of us jazz students butchering "Canal Street Blues", with our teachers for the week (two of which appear elsewhere on this BFT) sitting in. It was truly dreadful--but also a lot of fun.

8. When Benny Goodman heard the Basie band, he wanted to remake his own band in that image. He didn’t succeed, but he did record this rehearsal session with Charlie Christian and a bunch of Basie-ites. It’s delicious music. I wish Christian had lived long enough to record with Lester Young more than the couple of times they managed it. The only way this music could have been better would be to have Christian there just as a soloist, and to have Freddie Green play rhythm guitar.

The last comment confuses me a bit. Freddie *is* here playing rhythm in the background. (Though, man, he's hard to hear.)

7. Simple brilliance. Listen to Ellington’s touch at the beginning – it’s almost Monk-like. Ellington had a band of amazing individual voices that were able to blend wonderfully. It sometimes distresses me that younger players in a more or less “mainstream” jazz style sound so much alike. With Ellington, you can hear every individual voice when the sax section is playing, but it still blends.

I suspect that a lot of the "mainstream" homogeneity is due to musicians being more likely to be formally taught. Ellington was still the exception, even in the 30's and 40's, though. His ability to use the idiosyncrasies of his players is astounding.

6. I’m liable to take some flak for this, but this was the least interesting recording I’m posting about today. It’s exciting and swings hard, but it’s kind of one-dimensional to me, whereas the Ellington recording has so much more subtlety while swinging just as hard.

I don't think it's unfair to say that this is musically less interesting than many of the others. This was strictly a dance record, I think. (I don't quite agree with MG's more political stance. I think it was aimed at getting kids up and dancing more than getting them up and empowered.) Anyway: a delightful dance record it is. I included it, of course, because of Illinois and the solo that became part of the standard arrangement and that heralded things to come (jump blues, etc.).

2. A great band, and Billie when she was young and fresh. I actually prefer her later work, even though her voice had deteriorated. I have never before noticed that someone honks their car horn outside the studio just as Goodman goes to the bridge. Teddy Wilson made it sound so easy….

Hahaha! I hadn't either! If I had even noticed that noise, I would have assumed it's something resonating in the studio. (For those playing at home, it's at 0:31. A fairly long persistent honk--like someone leaning on the horn.)

Really enjoyed this BFT, even if I did have "rules" imposed on me!

[lipi]

So... The month is almost over. I think everything has been ID'ed (though feel free to add comments--despite my pleas for non-guess comments of the "I like it"/"I hate it"/"it sounds like foghorns" kind, there weren't too many of those), except 21, 22, and 23.

First hint: these all share a Scandinavian connexion.

Second hint: 21 has an Armstrong connexion.

[jeffcrom]

8. When Benny Goodman heard the Basie band, he wanted to remake his own band in that image. He didn’t succeed, but he did record this rehearsal session with Charlie Christian and a bunch of Basie-ites. It’s delicious music. I wish Christian had lived long enough to record with Lester Young more than the couple of times they managed it. The only way this music could have been better would be to have Christian there just as a soloist, and to have Freddie Green play rhythm guitar.

The last comment confuses me a bit. Freddie *is* here playing rhythm in the background. (Though, man, he's hard to hear.)

It confuses you because it's inaccurate and poorly worded. First of all, I had forgotten that Green plays here, and I should have noticed. What I was trying to say was that I wish Christian hadn't played rhythm when he wasn't soloing - it's too heavy/clunky for my taste.

[lipi]

Ah, O.K., I understand (and agree) now.

[NIS]

Thanks for the fun listen, Alex.

I'm not good at putting my thoughts on music into words but I did really like quite a number of these tracks. I have a hard time not liking a version of “St. Louis Blues” or “Dr. Jazz” but the ones you've presented are obviously top shelf. Not much more can be said about that. Without going through everything while I write, I would say my favorite tracks are 20 through 23. I'm normally not a real vocal fan but track 20 was great.

I'm really not in these BFTs to try for IDs but even a poser like me could recognize some things here. One note, I had a version of track 3 (I think) that was by David Grisman with Stephane Grappelli on my last BFT. That violin sure does sound familiar. Good track.

[lipi]

Thanks for listening, NIS.

Everyone else: last chance to get your guesses in before the reveal!

[jeffcrom]

Okay, I'm pretty sure that #21 is Bent Persson, recreating one of the solos from the book Louis Armstrong: 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet, which came out in 1927. I still don't recognize the tune.

I've always been curious about the Persson recordings, but frankly, I would rather find a copy of the music folio. I do a search every once in a while; maybe I'll get lucky one of these days.

[lipi]

Okay, I'm pretty sure that #21 is Bent Persson, recreating one of the solos from the book Louis Armstrong: 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet, which came out in 1927. I still don't recognize the tune.

I've always been curious about the Persson recordings, but frankly, I would rather find a copy of the music folio. I do a search every once in a while; maybe I'll get lucky one of these days.

Yes! It is Bent Persson's recreation of one of the Hot Choruses. The tune is "Bucktown Blues", which I've never heard another recording of (and Armstrong never recorded). The break at the end of the introduction is one of Armstrong's breaks, and the 32 bars ending the tune is one of Armstrong's choruses.

I've been looking for the book for years, too. The best I've been able to find are jpegs of a few of the pages:

http://thescreamonline.com/music/music2-1/armstrong/index.html

(To be honest, I'd forgotten I had found (and downloaded) those. Perhaps I would have picked one of the tracks with Bent playing one of those pages. Ah well.)

Good job, Jeff. That wasn't an easy one at all.