Whom Paul Desmond was influenced by?

[Dr. Rat]

Can't recall where I read or heard it, but I believe that Desmond once spoke of early Zoot Sims as being very meaningful to him. I can hear a kinship in the rhythmic poise and fluidity, plus a certain toying with the beat quality that in Desmond tends to get emphasized much more than it does with Zoot, even to the point of bounciness at times. Now that I think of it, that same toying with the beat/bouncy strain is the hallmark of Pete Brown's style, though the overall jump mood of Brown's music is not that much like Desmond's. On the whole, though, if you discount Konitz as a model (which I would, despite some I think deceptive similarities), Desmond strikes me as a notably self-invented player, given his era and his exposed to lots of music, urban background.

Larry-

You now anything about Desmond's father? Is he the Breitenfeld that wrote the Last Long Mile and the Sierra piece?

I've put out some inquiries, but it doesn't seem as if many poeple know about him. All I get is people firing questions back at me.

--eric

[DrJ]

Nice comments Larry - I agree, I just don't hear any of Konitz in Desmond and don't think that any kind of similarity (which is very much surface only) there is could plausibly be "influence."

[Larry Kart]

All I know of Desmond's father is what's been posted here. But much should be revealed in good time -- knowledgable, conscientious jazz writer Doug Ramsey (who actually knew Desmond) is working on a Desmond bio.

[Dr. Rat]

All I know of Desmond's father is what's been posted here. But much should be revealed in good time -- knowledgable, conscientious jazz writer Doug Ramsey (who actually knew Desmond) is working on a Desmond bio.

Great. Desmond didn't make things easy for him, though.

I'm actually mad at him for not doing his book, now. When I get to hell, he's getting it from me!

--eric

[Tom Storer]

I'm another fan of both Desmond and Konitz, and apart from an early similarity in tone I find their styles radically different. As one of the articles quoted in the thread pointed out, Konitz's improvisations are quite abstract. I think he delves into the chords and the melodies result, whereas Desmond is pure, shapely melody. Their phrasing and rhythmic feels are miles apart, and certainly by the 60's Konitz's tone had evolved into something much less smooth and sweet than Desmond's, which had only become smoother and cooler over the years. And Desmond's pitch was always spot on target whereas Konitz is a lot looser, getting more of a bluesy, dragging, almost-sharp sound rather frequently.

[Eloe Omoe]

What's the earliest Desmond anyone's heard?

There's a Philology CD ("Sweet Paul", Philology W72.2) that has two tracks by the Jack Sheedy Sextet with Paul Desmond, recorded in San Francisco, January 1950. It looks like those are the earliest known Desmond solos. Tracks are "The Man I Love" (with an alto solo) and "Down in Honky Tonk Town" (here Desmond takes a clarinet solo).

Luca

[Dr. Rat]

Got a nice reply from my enquiry about Desmond:

Yep, Paul Desmond, saxophonist for Dave Brubeck, was Emil Breitenfeld's

son. According to his obituary in Variety, Paul picked the name

"Desmond" randomly from a phone book. Maybe he was using a Yosemite

Valley phone book? Biographical info on Paul Desmond can be found at:

http://www.interlog.com/~mirus/desmond/biog.html

His dad, Emil Breitenfeld, was a top organist at San Francisco's

California Theater, playing behind the silents, but also performing as

a soloist for the California's Sunday Morning Concerts for several

years. He joined the SF Local 6 Union in 1919, following a stint as a

member of Company 17, 18th Provisional Training Regiment. Plattsburg,

NY Training Camp, during WWI. Once he was established in SF, he became

a well respected arranger for several of the city's theater orchestras,

including those led by Ben Black, Max Dolin, and Paul Ash. In 1924,

when my great uncle Charles N. Daniels (Neil Moret) opened his SF

publishing firm Villa Moret, Emil was listed as the firm's chief staff

arranger. I do not know as yet how long he continued in this capacity,

but probably at least through 1930. His son Paul was born in 1925.

Now here's an interesting coincidence. Seems Don Jones, editor of The

American Rag, actually met Emil Breitenfeld as a boy (though he

remembers very little about him). I got a laugh out of this and told

Don that he was among an elite group of 3 (me, him, and Tom Bopp) to

recognize Emil's name. Now our group has grown to 4. Hooray.

Don's Jones' dad played sax in several SF theater orchestras and it was

Don's father who took young Paul to the music shop, at Emil's request,

and helped him pick out his very first saxophone, and then proceeded to

give him his first lessons. According to Don, Paul Desmond claimed that

his subsequent instructors seldom showed him much more than he'd

already learned from Mr. Jones.

Emil's tune "The Last Long Mile - Toot Toot" was originally published

as "The Last Long Mile-- Plattsburg Marching Song" by Harms in 1917,

to commemorate Emil's Company 17, 18th PTR. Next year it was

interpolated into Henry W. Savage's production of Jerome Kern's musical

comedy "Toot Toot." Billy Murray & Chorus recorded it on Edison 351

(Blue Amberol) in 1918. Emil's "Sierra Sketches" (5 suites for the

piano entitled: Mirror Lake; Happy Isles; A Waterfall; Lost Arrow

Trail; and By the Fireside) were published by Villa Moret in 1925.

Emil also composed a couple of comic operas.

And that's about all I know.

Nan Bostick

Charles N. Daniel's biographer and grand niece

Anyhow, my notion is that one of the big influences on Desmond was his father and the musical milieu his father played and composed in.

--eric

[JSngry]

Fascinating info you dug up there Eric!

Who've thunk that there would be a Desmond-organ connection?